They're making these for less than 300. The spartan double boards cost about $370? less? to make and these are previous generation chips.
Most likely the initial power estimates were based on 45nm and sometime during the process they got a line on some cheaper chips and thus the giant leap in power consumption. When they run out, the single ver. 2 will be announced, for delivery in 4-6 weeks.
Topic: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box - page 56. (Read 186946 times)
Scanned a few pages and didn't see anything about the Rev3. If you order today are you guaranteed a Rev3 single with the heat pipe?
Thanks!
PS - Sent a note to Sonny. Hoping this doesn't take 2+ weeks to answer like last time
Thanks!
PS - Sent a note to Sonny. Hoping this doesn't take 2+ weeks to answer like last time
Waiting for an answer too!
IF they kept them for 40-60 weeks they'd make an additional $33,000 in profit. So why even sell them?
Oh I dunno. Because they don't last that long?
These arguments are silly. This is like people selling trading systems. Everyone criticizes them saying, "Well if your system were really profitable you wouldn't be selling it."
But they sold those 30 units for $17,970
A wise man once said, "profit matters and revenue means nothing". So how much of that is profit? 20% would be $3594.
Even if they kept them for a week, they'd only make $550
And if they kept them for 4-6 weeks, they'd make an additional $3300 in profit. They just doubled their profit. Who doesn't like to double their profits?
If they kept them for 40-60 weeks they'd make $33,000.
If they kept them for 400 to 600 weeks they'd make $330,000.
If they kept them for 4,000 to 6,000 weeks they'd make $3.3 million
So why even sell them?
Money for nothing and you chicks for free.
But they sold those 30 units for $17,970
A wise man once said, "profit matters and revenue means nothing". So how much of that is profit? 20% would be $3594.
Even if they kept them for a week, they'd only make $550
And if they kept them for 4-6 weeks, they'd make an additional $3300 in profit. They just doubled their profit. Who doesn't like to double their profits?
Sgt. Spike is right. If mining had a high enough ROI% that they would want to delay orders a week or a month then it would be best to delay orders forever and simply keep the units to mine privately.
Really, the BTC mined during testing amounts to a drop in the bucket compared to what they are selling these things for. No, I do not think they are purposefully keeping them on hand longer than necessary for testing purposes. They want to get them out the door so they can get more orders in.
It wouldn't really make sense for BFL not to test them by mining for their own profit. I don't believe that rotating through stock, say keeping 30 singles running at a time would be negligible.
30*(832 Mhash/s) = 24.96 Ghash/s
At current difficulty (1498294) with an exchange of $4.7 per BTC (about what it is at time of posting), that would be a little over $550 per a week for them.
Seems like a decent amount of money while further ensuring that the product works.
But they sold those 30 units for $17,970
Do you see now why I said that the mining income is a drop in the bucket?
Even if they kept them for a week, they'd only make $550, as you said, which is less than the price of ONE unit. Given that they'll get more orders the quicker they are sending the units out, I can't imagine they would hold back for a week on 30 of them, just to make enough mining profit to equate to one more sale of the units, while potentially losing out on many more sales of units because of the delay.
Make sense?
If I was them I would sell a unit and make just enough to get myself a free unit to leave on a shelf to mine.
So if they cost me 225 to make and sell I would break even.
So if I sold 100 units I would be mining with 100 units. This all assumes this is pretty much a 1 person gig going
on and he does not have a lot of overhead.
But that is just me. Eventually the market will be saturated for these and business will trickle off unless you can
offer much more bang for the buck. This way you have quite a few "free" units making you continuous money long term.
Once you are out of electricity and cooling.. then just sell all the new ones that come in unless you can find more space
to put them.
Really, the BTC mined during testing amounts to a drop in the bucket compared to what they are selling these things for. No, I do not think they are purposefully keeping them on hand longer than necessary for testing purposes. They want to get them out the door so they can get more orders in.
It wouldn't really make sense for BFL not to test them by mining for their own profit. I don't believe that rotating through stock, say keeping 30 singles running at a time would be negligible.
30*(832 Mhash/s) = 24.96 Ghash/s
At current difficulty (1498294) with an exchange of $4.7 per BTC (about what it is at time of posting), that would be a little over $550 per a week for them.
Seems like a decent amount of money while further ensuring that the product works.
But they sold those 30 units for $17,970
Do you see now why I said that the mining income is a drop in the bucket?
Even if they kept them for a week, they'd only make $550, as you said, which is less than the price of ONE unit. Given that they'll get more orders the quicker they are sending the units out, I can't imagine they would hold back for a week on 30 of them, just to make enough mining profit to equate to one more sale of the units, while potentially losing out on many more sales of units because of the delay.
Make sense?
So 6 month warranty means it will die soon after,hmm,so what do think of Icarus & X6500 with NO warranty?
So who do you think has been more open and honest so far?
I've started several small buisness's & its not easy,by any means.So I have a little understanding from thier viewpoint.
So 6 month warranty means it will die soon after,hmm,so what do think of Icarus & X6500 with NO warranty?
So who do you think has been more open and honest so far?
You're very welcome to spend the same amount of money for less than half the hash rate and no warranty. No one's going to stop you
Scanned a few pages and didn't see anything about the Rev3. If you order today are you guaranteed a Rev3 single with the heat pipe?
Thanks!
PS - Sent a note to Sonny. Hoping this doesn't take 2+ weeks to answer like last time
Thanks!
PS - Sent a note to Sonny. Hoping this doesn't take 2+ weeks to answer like last time
So 6 month warranty means it will die soon after,hmm,so what do think of Icarus & X6500 with NO warranty?
So who do you think has been more open and honest so far?
The thing is, they probably don't have 300 units available, more like, 300 in queue to be set up from parts, tested and shipped to customers whose money were necessary to produce/buy them.
6 month warranty suggests they themselves don't believe in their product lasting too long.
Waiting for (mini?) rig box and competition.
So 6 month warranty means it will die soon after,hmm,so what do think of Icarus & X6500 with NO warranty?
Not to mention that 300 units would be 24 kWh (~273 Amps @ 110V) and would require 120,000 BTU/h or 10 tons of air conditioning (which would probably consume another 10 kWh) 
The thing is, they probably don't have 300 units available, more like, 300 in queue to be set up from parts, tested and shipped to customers whose money were necessary to produce/buy them.
6 month warranty suggests they themselves don't believe in their product lasting too long.
Waiting for (mini?) rig box and competition.
Really, the BTC mined during testing amounts to a drop in the bucket compared to what they are selling these things for. No, I do not think they are purposefully keeping them on hand longer than necessary for testing purposes. They want to get them out the door so they can get more orders in.
It wouldn't really make sense for BFL not to test them by mining for their own profit. I don't believe that rotating through stock, say keeping 30 singles running at a time would be negligible.
30*(832 Mhash/s) = 24.96 Ghash/s
At current difficulty (1498294) with an exchange of $4.7 per BTC (about what it is at time of posting), that would be a little over $550 per a week for them.
Seems like a decent amount of money while further ensuring that the product works.
Well, it is not only "30*(832 Mhash/s) = 24.96 Ghash/s" it is more like "300*(832 Mhash/s) = 249.600 Ghash/s" ~ 6000k profit per week! And as long as for every single getting out of their lab a couple of singles are getting in, so they are mining 24/7 and their hash rate is always getting higher!
And please BFL don't reply by saying "we do test for only 12 hours", all you have to do is to stop the 4 to 6 weeks delay "that ends up being more than 10 weeks".
Really, the BTC mined during testing amounts to a drop in the bucket compared to what they are selling these things for. No, I do not think they are purposefully keeping them on hand longer than necessary for testing purposes. They want to get them out the door so they can get more orders in.
It wouldn't really make sense for BFL not to test them by mining for their own profit. I don't believe that rotating through stock, say keeping 30 singles running at a time would be negligible.
30*(832 Mhash/s) = 24.96 Ghash/s
At current difficulty (1498294) with an exchange of $4.7 per BTC (about what it is at time of posting), that would be a little over $550 per a week for them.
Seems like a decent amount of money while further ensuring that the product works.
That explains that 30ghash user on eligius....
That might be ngzhang if I am not wrong, and he is donating the shares (not that I have first hand knowledge, but he posted a few pictures of his testing "towers" with screen shots of the new version of of Modular Python Bitcoin Miner). 30 GH/s would be about 70 Icarus, and that's also the number of boards he mentioned on his last test run. He tests them for 3 days in a hot environment (extra fans switched off) if my memory serves me right.
Really, the BTC mined during testing amounts to a drop in the bucket compared to what they are selling these things for. No, I do not think they are purposefully keeping them on hand longer than necessary for testing purposes. They want to get them out the door so they can get more orders in.
According to this post, they test the units for a minimum of 12 hours before shipping them out. I think that's a good thing.
I wouldn't mind if they tested mine out for a few days, even. If there's a problem, better to catch it before it's shipped.
I wouldn't mind if they tested mine out for a few days, even. If there's a problem, better to catch it before it's shipped.
@Energizer: We do test all the units for a minimum of 12 hours prior to shipping. This is our endurance test
that is done in a harsh environment to make sure the unit is stable and will not encounter any problem in its
lifetime.
that is done in a harsh environment to make sure the unit is stable and will not encounter any problem in its
lifetime.
That explains that 30ghash user on eligius....
Jump to: