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Topic: Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.) (Read 24693 times)

legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
Hi Everyone,

We've been very busy recently, unfortunately I couldn't catch up with the forums. There is a correction to be made: Chips are not and were not flawed. We decided to add certain clock buffers to improve noise-resistance and possibly increase frequency even further. The improve in noise resistance was our real goal (average frequency increase across a full wafer can be a bi-product). The decision was made to increase the near 100% chance of success even more. We'll keep you posted. If you had any questions, please let us know.


Regards,
Nasser
Since I saw you were online today Nasser, can you comment on this quote by Josh in a Wired magazine article?
Quote
The problem was that Butterfly — based out of Kansas City, Missouri — banked on a cool design and a brand new chip manufacturing process and ended up getting in over its head. “We’ve hit quite a few snags along the way, says Butterfly Chief Operations Officer Josh Zerlan.

The company had to redo its initial chip designs, but the worst snag was in November, when the Butterfly got a hold of its first chip samples. They were basically too hot to work, Zerlan says. “The plastic packaging on the top of the chip just couldn’t exhaust the heat fast enough, so it basically melted the package.”
Link: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/04/bitcoin-mining-rigs/

Was Josh misquoted or incorrect, or did you get chip samples in that ran so hot they destroyed the QFN packages?

That definitely explains a lot of things:

legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
Hi Everyone,

We've been very busy recently, unfortunately I couldn't catch up with the forums. There is a correction to be made: Chips are not and were not flawed. We decided to add certain clock buffers to improve noise-resistance and possibly increase frequency even further. The improve in noise resistance was our real goal (average frequency increase across a full wafer can be a bi-product). The decision was made to increase the near 100% chance of success even more. We'll keep you posted. If you had any questions, please let us know.


Regards,
Nasser
Since I saw you were online today Nasser, can you comment on this quote by Josh in a Wired magazine article?
Quote
The problem was that Butterfly — based out of Kansas City, Missouri — banked on a cool design and a brand new chip manufacturing process and ended up getting in over its head. “We’ve hit quite a few snags along the way, says Butterfly Chief Operations Officer Josh Zerlan.

The company had to redo its initial chip designs, but the worst snag was in November, when the Butterfly got a hold of its first chip samples. They were basically too hot to work, Zerlan says. “The plastic packaging on the top of the chip just couldn’t exhaust the heat fast enough, so it basically melted the package.”
Link: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/04/bitcoin-mining-rigs/

Was Josh misquoted or incorrect, or did you get chip samples in that ran so hot they destroyed the QFN packages?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
sr. member
Activity: 415
Merit: 250
Money is the root of all evil.

Where is this standing..?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
Why haven't customers been issued prompt refunds in accordance with FTC regulation?

Unfortunately the regulation part deals with shipping delays after their "official" ship date, which last time I checked (a while ago) was January 1st.

Other than that, people can apparently get refunds at any time if they ask before the 1st.
I believe you misunderstood.

The current policy is that they are refunding on a "case by case" basis. This is a voluntary effort on BFL's part.

When [err...IF] January 1st passes, they no longer have a voluntary "case by case" review. Any and all customers at that point can demand a refund and BFL is obligated to give one. (as in, not voluntary).

By January 1st [2013)you either have a rig in your hands, or you can demand a refund. Its what the BFL rep mentioned a while back. (Use the search feature folks!)

----------------------------

The reason why the 1st of January is supposedly "the deadline" date, it is because they set their original time frame to October 2012. (60 days later...November/December)
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Why haven't customers been issued prompt refunds in accordance with FTC regulation?

Unfortunately the regulation part deals with shipping delays after their "official" ship date, which last time I checked (a while ago) was January 1st.

Other than that, people can apparently get refunds at any time if they ask before the 1st.
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006

Quote from: BFL_Josh
ASIC Update 26 November 2012

While I can't give a hard date and say "absolutely" this is the date, it looks like the week of the 11th, but that's the "fuzzy" date I have at the moment and I'm waiting on confirmation on a not-fuzzy date from the foundry right now. There was a flaw in the chip that needed to be addressed and it pushed the date out, plain and simple.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html


Welcome to "the week of the 11th". Time for another delay announcement?

Why haven't customers been issued prompt refunds in accordance with FTC regulation?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Quote
"Nasser G" is employed by a bank in Paris. He has previously declined to answer questions regarding his employment on this forum.

Quote
Who is the nameless Venture Capital / Private Equity Group referred to in the press release? (Or more to the point: Does it exist.)

Doesn't the first question answer the second one and vice versa? A bank would sit one of their guys on the board if they were worried about their investment/loan. Wink
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............
What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
Do the math you said, re-read my reply, your math skills suck.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
... BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, ...

It surely doesn't help to insult (potential) customers.

Just do a forum search here:
Search for: "idiot"
by user: "Inaba"

Maybe BFL should do the same - and question if they made the right decision to hire Inaba/BFL_Josh as their representative.

I think BFL did good in hiring Inaba....you just don't care for him because unlike most folks,he's not scared of you & your whining  Tongue

hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
... BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, ...

It surely doesn't help to insult (potential) customers.

Just do a forum search here:
Search for: "idiot"
by user: "Inaba"

Maybe BFL should do the same - and question if they made the right decision to hire Inaba/BFL_Josh as their representative.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I like the way ngzhang and Avalon is handling their product launch. They're the class act of ASICs thus far.

BFL? ...well they're on the other end of that scale.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............
What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
You should go hang out on the BFL forums with like minded Koolaid drinkers. This post is about BFL not my lending practices, but if you wanted to get into it. I lent money and I knew I was lending money, Unlike BFL who took out a loan and told you it was a pre-order.
Does anyone know the exact number of Singles and Rigs sold? I want to do some math to see about what there operating funds were.

Just another tidbit here.
Here is another thing to look at, A company in Communist China is releasing more details then a American company. Now people bitch about jobs being lost to them but then look how the U.S. Company acts and then how the Chinese company acts. Ask Avalon something and they answer. Ask BFL something and you get ridiculed.

Yeah, but ngzhang is just a single guy who isn't doing this as a business or as his job... it may turn into a job in the future, but this is still a side thing for him. Hes willing to license his designs to whoever asks for a small fee (although I don't think he can relicense the SHA256 IP core hes using for Avalon, so you'd still buy the ASICs from him but fab your own boards however you want).

Its not about US vs China, its about greed. BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, but with ngzhang, people are throwing money at him because hes proven several times hes legit and delivers and has that whole "its done when its done and not a moment sooner" mentality.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............
What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
You should go hang out on the BFL forums with like minded Koolaid drinkers. This post is about BFL not my lending practices, but if you wanted to get into it. I lent money and I knew I was lending money, Unlike BFL who took out a loan and told you it was a pre-order.
Does anyone know the exact number of Singles and Rigs sold? I want to do some math to see about what there operating funds were.

Just another tidbit here.
Here is another thing to look at, A company in Communist China is releasing more details then a American company. Now people bitch about jobs being lost to them but then look how the U.S. Company acts and then how the Chinese company acts. Ask Avalon something and they answer. Ask BFL something and you get ridiculed.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003

****I**** have room to complain... But I am NOT.
I await the falling of the chips.  Settle down, everyone.  Karma will distribute properly and justice will ultimately be done, on the this matter as well as on the most grandiose scale.
As above, so below.
+10
Good point.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

 Shocked Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?Huh

I think the redheads are doing thier job  Cheesy



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"   Cheesy Cool

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead. Tongue

Haha,Me TOO  Cheesy

Oh god, this made my year.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

 Shocked Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?Huh

I think the redheads are doing thier job  Cheesy



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"   Cheesy Cool

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead. Tongue

Haha,Me TOO  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

 Shocked Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?Huh

I think the redheads are doing thier job  Cheesy



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"   Cheesy Cool

Haha which is funny, cuz I am a redhead. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

 Shocked Holy crap MeSarah !!!!!!

Have you been BFLwashed?Huh

I think the redheads are doing thier job  Cheesy



Nice retort,I'm just impressed you didn't "jump on the bandwagon"   Cheesy Cool
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