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Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 23. (Read 415652 times)

legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1000
October 10, 2014, 11:08:11 AM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.



I don't see the connection with higher difficulty? I think these companies need to be made an example out of, you can't just take people's money and give them a fraction of hardware, and in some cases people got no hardware. If someone stole $5,100 from your house, the police would be called and the person would be arrested. But for some unknown reason, companies like AMT Advanced miners, and BFL can just take cash from people and think they can get away with it.  The laws need to change in this area, and we need to hold these companies accountable.

The difficulty is so high because BFL shipped out tons of useless miners.

If they didn't take any preorders, they never would have sold a single Jalepeno because by the time they actually created one no would would buy it because it was obvious that it wouldn't ROI.

Since they got paid up front, they had enough money to make all the worthless miners, and then the rubes who paid for them received the worthless miners and then plugged them because earning a very little amount of bitcoins is much better than earning completely 0.

But plugging in the miners makes the difficulty go up, which in turn makes the miners even more worthless.

That's the funny thing, if people just stopped with the preorders/bad cloud mining purchases, the difficulty would slow down, current miners would earn a little bit more, and things may start to balance out. But, we still have geniuses preordering and buying cloud mining that will never ROI, further fucking everyone else (except the people selling miners and cloud mining of course).
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 504
October 10, 2014, 10:23:24 AM

Im glad they deserved it, im shock that people in the first were willing to wait over 3 months for preorders in the first place.

Society will go through the 3 stages of truth. We're now approaching the truth as being self-evident.



 The idiot is now going to jail, I wonder if he'll be an asshole in there?  Yes that was a pun

Or maybe this is just a publicity stunt. Why is the domain still out there? Why didn't the FTC seize the domain?
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Burn the wings off those bastards.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
October 09, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
Any update about this?
You must not be familiar with the US judicial system. This will take months before any facts come out, and probably years before any action is taken.
sr. member
Activity: 273
Merit: 260
Pool Owner
October 09, 2014, 01:35:14 PM
Its been long overdue, thank god they are now closed.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
October 09, 2014, 01:34:21 PM
Don't know if what's true, that BFL was shut down by the Federal Government?  That is definitely true, search google.
member
Activity: 114
Merit: 10
October 09, 2014, 10:42:11 AM
Any update about this?

No update.. I really dont know if this one is true.
member
Activity: 107
Merit: 10
October 06, 2014, 07:16:35 AM
Any update about this?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
October 04, 2014, 11:13:14 PM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.



those are called drug deals   Grin

Are you saying we should all go pickup the miners while carrying heat? haha No no don't do that!!!! hahah

ha ha ha, they are not worth going to jail over.  and i definitely do not advocate violence, but if someone should make like Nolan Ryan and chuck a jalapeno at their heads i wouldn't mind =)
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
October 03, 2014, 03:49:31 PM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.



those are called drug deals   Grin

Are you saying we should all go pickup the miners while carrying heat? haha No no don't do that!!!! hahah
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
October 03, 2014, 03:47:01 PM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.



I don't see the connection with higher difficulty? I think these companies need to be made an example out of, you can't just take people's money and give them a fraction of hardware, and in some cases people got no hardware. If someone stole $5,100 from your house, the police would be called and the person would be arrested. But for some unknown reason, companies like AMT Advanced miners, and BFL can just take cash from people and think they can get away with it.  The laws need to change in this area, and we need to hold these companies accountable.

With all due respect, the connection with higher difficulties come from the ability of these companies to acquire the funds to create these machines in the first place.

Lets just say that no one would trust any large scale producers of these mining equipment and they required to receive their funds by traditional means of approaching a lending company like a bank they would have to produce a plan and a time line and show results.

These bitcoin mining manufacturers make their money by using the machines before they ship them out. Thing about it would you hand over a machine that makes money simply by plugging it in? and the longer you wait the less you make?

The whole business model is flawed. imo besides people always have gotten rich by exploiting other people. 
sr. member
Activity: 273
Merit: 260
Pool Owner
October 03, 2014, 03:02:30 PM
Thank you for the response Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
October 03, 2014, 02:06:22 PM
Has anymore information come out after the court hearing? As the hearing was on the 29th of September

http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.54.0.pdf is the latest information.

Basically all BFL can do is ship completed miners to those who want them. They are still in receivership and all of their funds are still frozen. They have 45 days to submit a business plan to the FTC and court which must address issues raised by the FTC case. All the details can be found in the linked document.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
October 03, 2014, 11:20:43 AM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.



those are called drug deals   Grin
sr. member
Activity: 273
Merit: 260
Pool Owner
October 03, 2014, 07:46:22 AM
Has anymore information come out after the court hearing? As the hearing was on the 29th of September
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
October 03, 2014, 06:20:00 AM
Cross posting(thx ElGrandJefe):

In a nutshell:
  • No more pre-orders
  • No more lies about performance or delivery dates
  • No advertising or selling anything they don't actually have in stock
  • Full asset freeze for BFL and Jody, Nasser and Sonny (JNS)
  • Repatriation of assets held abroad by BFL and JNS
  • Full accounting of all BFL assets and records
  • Full authorization to subpoena any person or business entity holding BFL and JNS assets and records
  • Full, sworn list of all payments and transfers of funds, assets and property of BFL and JNS
  • Complete, sworn statement itemizing all payments, transfers, and assignment of funds over $2,500 made since June 2012 by each of JNS
  • Authorization for FTC to obtain credit reports on JNS
  • Full preservation of records by BFL and all its officers and agents (no more forum post deletions)
  • Authority of temporary receiver to send anyone at BFL home, including, but not limited to JNS
  • JNS may work for the receiver if so asked, but will no be paid
  • No burn-in testing without approval of the court
  • Shipping of completed miners is allowed, if consumers want them instead of a refund
  • No refunds unless approved by the court
  • No new sales unless approved by the court
  • All BFL and JNS bitcoins go to a wallet controlled by the receiver (as noted in a previous post)

There's a whole lot more in there that's unfavorable to BFL, but essentially the receiver temporarily has control over everything, Jody, Nasser and Sonny get nothing and have to provide a full accounting of what they have taken in the past. Everyone has to cooperate fully with the receiver or their ass is grass. The FTC is authorized, and indeed has been granted extended powers, to continue gathering evidence. Further criminal investigations and civil suits against BFL and JNS can continue.

And last but not least, the judge says "this case is mine, bitches".

All the customers should file complaints to FTC and don't forget to give them details about scammer Josh Zerlan aka Inaba! Let's get him into a nice prison cell!
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
October 02, 2014, 07:53:52 PM
In 2013 I bought Bitcoin mining companies from 2 companies.

First, I bought 2 cards from BFL, one full price and one at 50% off. I waited a year, they gave me nothing. Finally they gave me a refund for the first card, and I had to post a lot of negative reviews to get the refund for the second card I got for 50% off (for them being late one the first card). It probably would have been impossible for anyone to get back the money on the discounted card, but I am good with posting online and they didn't want the bad publicity. They wired me for both cards and I was refunded a year later after being on the 45 day waiting list for I don't know how long....

The second place I bought Bitmining equipment was " AMT miners " AKA advanced miners ( www.amtminers.com ) , they did even worse, collected thousands from people and refused to give anyone refunds. They send miners with no power supplies with cut wires and used fans to people on the "naughty list". They charged me $6,000, but they only send me a miner a year later that sold for $899 on their own website! They used our money to expand their business instead of being fair or giving partial refunds. See this post for info....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/amt-advanced-miners-807750




Long ago before the internet people would say things like "Do you have the merchandise on you?" and the other person would say "Yea, Do you have the money?"

If everyone did this these companies would not exist and the difficulty would never be this high.

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
October 02, 2014, 10:23:46 AM
Then tell them they're lucky they're not in China.

Why?  We lock up way more of our peers than the smart Chinese.  Remind him that he's in America!
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
October 02, 2014, 08:27:10 AM
BFL as a whole were complete scum.  sadly enough in this country, if you have $ you can buy yourself a slap on the wrist.  BFL made a ton of $, so i seriously doubt there will be more than heavy fines and probation.  the government has all the ammo they need.  misappropriation/embezzlement of company/customer's funds, internal communication threads where they conspire to commit fraud and mislead customers.  they clearly kept customers hardware and used it to mine, there was a huge conflict of interest in doing so. in essence they raised difficulty and competed against their own customers/depreciating customer's hardware by using it to mine.  these blood sucking leeches kept all HW until it was basically rendered useless and not profitable. 

i really hope there is justice, and these soft ass BFL faggots get enough time that they will be sent to a level 4 yard.  better figure out what race car you plan to ride  in Nasser G.  Grin

BFL employees can suck a dick
The most outspoken and rude employee (by all appearances) they had was Josh Zerlan (posts as Inaba here). The sad part is, reading the deposition notes, he was the ONLY one who tried to stop Nasser G's actions. He told Nasser in several of the conversations that they couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't do certain unethical/illegal things. He was the only one behind the scenes that was actually looking out for BFL's customers (according to the chat logs released), yet he is easily the most hated here because of his antics. Kind of makes me wonder how BFL would have done with ANYONE ELSE at the helm, and also makes me feel sort of guilty for being so anti-Inaba after seeing how he truly conducts himself in business.



Josh/Inaba is a grown ass man, he knew what BFL was doing and knew it was wrong...he should have quit.  he knowingly knew BFL was fucking over customers and still had the balls to login to the forum and rag on customers who were upset over their mistreatment. 



hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
October 02, 2014, 08:14:36 AM

Im glad they deserved it, im shock that people in the first were willing to wait over 3 months for preorders in the first place.

Society will go through the 3 stages of truth. We're now approaching the truth as being self-evident.



 The idiot is now going to jail, I wonder if he'll be an asshole in there?  Yes that was a pun

i guarantee you not one of these BFL faggots would talk greasy to anyone in jail if they had to do time...let's see how far those smart ass remarks get them when they are in custody.
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