Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 35. (Read 415652 times)

5 November 2013

I also did a chargeback through my bank some weeks back.  I would like to toss in the following additional info:

-- The bank immediately credited my account, but they made it clear that this was a courtesy and that the credit is not final until the accused seller responds.  In my case, they could take as long as two billing periods to respond.

-- When I went to Paypal two weeks later and checked the case status (cases were automatically opened when the chargeback occurred), the Paypal status showed "In review."

In other words, it may look like I have got the money but it is not official, Paypal is sitting on their hands "reviewing" the case, and it could be as long as two months until I know if I really have my money back.

In other world news (film at 11):

I also filed complaints with the FTC, the Kansas City BBB, the Kansas Attorney General's office, and the Johnson County District Attorney.  No response on any of those yet.

I have been down the small claims court path in the past, and my own experience is that it is much easier to sue the credit card company under FTC "claims and defenses" than it is to sue the seller.  In this case it is not clear to me whether the seller is Paypal or BFL, since the credit card transaction was paid to Paypal and not BFL.  Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge can clear that up.

If the seller is Paypal, they have legal staff who do their utmost to avoid paying (though there is a wealth of info about how to sue Paypal and win; google it).

If the seller is BFL, collecting on the judgement could be extremely difficult, since the judgement would have to be exported to Kansas and sent to collections there -- and it is not clear that BFL has a financial leg to file a lien against.

If you have to sue your credit card company or Paypal, never sign a "general release."  This frees them from any obligations to you whether past, present or future.  Tell them you will sign a specific release.  And don't sign any confidentiality agreements.  If you win a judgement, you are in the right and they must pay, and cannot put conditions on that payment.

Update 7 Nov 2013

The Paypal status on the chargebacks changed from "In review" to "Closed."  There was no direct indication of whether it was closed by accepting or rejecting the chargeback.  After clicking around a bit, clicking on the "Closed" status produced "There was insufficient evidence to dispute the chargeback", which I take to mean "He's right but we don't like to admit it."

I can imagine the happiness at Paypal HQ when it becomes general knowledge among BFL customers that Paypal actually is eating BFL chargebacks.  Then the chargebacks will really start rolling in.  It would be interesting to know how Paypal will try to get that money back from BFL.  Well, better them doing it than me.

Addendum:  I just checked the order status at BFL, and both of them show "canceled." (sic).  So they do actually know the word, even if they can't spell it.

What was the actual power usage and how much higher is it compare to what is promised?

Ouch Power usage is so much higher than what was promised and makes the calculation that much worse.

well right now it's questionable if it even pays to pay for the VAT (in my country 21%) to accept the device from the customs

Just got my bfl miner thanks for the paperweight Josh.  It's more like a desk prop now where I can tell my employees about how not to run a business. Think of it as management art. We could do a whole series from poison aspirin to lead paint on kids toys.

And it was obvious to everyone who used there brains from December 2012, latest Feb 2013 for the slow people, that bfl and josh were scamming cockroaches. Which i say, and will stick to that If you ordered after this date, you need to start doing your research before you jump the gun and act like a fool! Its nothing personal, its just the truth.

People are falable, always but you can do something about it, like thinkingngor yourself instead of being a sheep!

You're talking after the fact. It's obvious NOW.

Then you aren't trying to put the burden on the victims of the scam, right? The criminals are the ones 100% to blame, all the time.

So you ordered pre-order hardware from a company with shitty history, non existent customer service and owners that are convicted felons and you are surprised you get scammed?

I got my BFL stuff after a long delay. Hashing away at 30gh 
the wait killed me. LOL 

I got my BFL stuff after a long delay. Hashing away at 30gh 
the wait killed me. LOL