Pages:
Author

Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 20. (Read 121606 times)

legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
October 29, 2024, 08:56:46 AM


I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hm no, Bitcoin is not a gamble on a Ponzi Scheme, not in the slightest. I think I know what you mean and that I shouldn't take you literally here (correct me if I am wrong), but Bitcoin offers something real and the surplus value inherent in Bitcoin has not yet been captured by the market, which means that it has plenty potential to grow. Money is always an incentive and I won't deny that, but money is as much an incentive when you invest in a sound real estate as it is when you invest in a sound monetary alternative. If you want to, you could say that investing per se involves an element of gambling, but to me that sounds too superficial and I am sure that's not the the conversation you intend to have.

In gambling people sometimes seek a way to waste time literally. To forget the present and do something that keeps them excited because normal life can't do the job. A Bitcoin investor isn't excited 24/7 I think. It is an exciting topic, but to reach the gambling effect I would have to play "Up or Down" on some gambling site, hoping that my bet on "Up" within the next 30 seconds hits. That's not how I look at Bitcoin.


Ser, read the post again, and please get the actual context. What I said was, from the viewpoint of a normie and/or a person from the traditional banking system, Bitcoin might be considered a "Ponzi" by those people like how we Bitcoin HODLers consider shitcoins.

Plus from a another, more controversial viewpoint, Bitcoin is ACTUALLY a "Ponzi", but a sort of naturally-occurring "Ponzi" LIKE GOLD.
hero member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 538
October 29, 2024, 04:15:43 AM


I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hm no, Bitcoin is not a gamble on a Ponzi Scheme, not in the slightest. I think I know what you mean and that I shouldn't take you literally here (correct me if I am wrong), but Bitcoin offers something real and the surplus value inherent in Bitcoin has not yet been captured by the market, which means that it has plenty potential to grow. Money is always an incentive and I won't deny that, but money is as much an incentive when you invest in a sound real estate as it is when you invest in a sound monetary alternative. If you want to, you could say that investing per se involves an element of gambling, but to me that sounds too superficial and I am sure that's not the the conversation you intend to have.

In gambling people sometimes seek a way to waste time literally. To forget the present and do something that keeps them excited because normal life can't do the job. A Bitcoin investor isn't excited 24/7 I think. It is an exciting topic, but to reach the gambling effect I would have to play "Up or Down" on some gambling site, hoping that my bet on "Up" within the next 30 seconds hits. That's not how I look at Bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 285
October 29, 2024, 03:26:56 AM

As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
The percentage means making about 35 percent of the total income we make to be invested?
Even though it is a very good thing but we have to keep in mind other situations and conditions because for the initial 35 percent for DCA I think it is quite difficult to do because after all even though maybe for the first week or month it can still be done but of course this will be a little troublesome in terms of consistency because we cannot handle this large amount if our income remains at $120.
I think it's still good enough if we only allocate at least 20 percent-25 percent because it's possible we can still minimize in terms of needs but for 35 percent it could be torturing yourself even though being in bitcoin is a very good thing to do but forcing yourself because you need to remember that this takes a long time at least 4 years or even more so that with a nominal 35 percent of your income it is still very large in my opinion.
I understand what you are saying perfectly. But what I just have to add here is that, since the DCA is for a very long time. Investor should maintain the percentage that gives him some level of comfort. At the beginning he can go a bit aggressive in order to get to certain level of bitcoin in his portfolio. There will come a time when he won't be like that, he won't allocate a higher percentage to his DCA, because there will be some manly responsibilities that will make him to adjust his investment percentage either for few weeks or months.

Let's say staking his partner to vacation, to straighten their relationship, he can decide to reduce the allocation, because he will need to raise money for vacation. So period he won't have to allocate a higher percentage to DCA. There will also come a time that he will even decide to increase the allocation further, maybe he got more resources inflow. Investor don't have to maintain a stable percentage to be invested in bitcoin throughout their accumulation period. Reather it should depend on the level of resources that are flowing into your hand and your responsibilities, that occasionally comes up.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
October 29, 2024, 02:02:57 AM

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.
You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.

I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


There are a lot of shitcoiner talking points that may well sound very convincing to a newbie, and so he might not really know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and he may well be convinced by the talking points and/or the influencer who might come off as genuine and/or trustworthy... and maybe even as a person who has an "inside scoop" that helps to get better "bang for the buck."


Plus another talking-point is when the person uses very technical jargon that's purposefully made to be complicated to make it look so intelligent. That might be what "developers" like Vitalik Buterin is doing. Real crypto developers like Gregory Maxwell or Andrew Chow - they would probably have the same sort of opinion. But they might also won't be very public about it. Although there was a podcast Peter "Satoshi" Todd said that Vitalik is being sometimes disingenuous. There was also the quantum mining scam that Vitalik was involved in during the early days of Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
October 29, 2024, 01:25:00 AM
I am posting this here because the other thread got locked, but since it fits into this topic, I thought it is ok.
I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed.
Am I missing something mate, because I know that bitcoin was created in 2009, so how did these people you said you ask about bitcoin will have the knowledge of bitcoin or digital currency in the 90s.
You might be misreading tiCeR.  I think that he is merely saying that guys that he was talking with about bitcoin had extensive backgrounds in digital currency, and they had experiences that went back into the 90s, even though he was talking with them in 2011 or 2012-ish.. .. and so their experience would not have been bitcoin specific, but instead products related to bitcoin that caused them to be somewhat skeptical about the longevity/durability/investibility of bitcoin.. so back in those days, he (tiCeR) was influenced to (or suade into based on BTC's volatility too) treat bitcoin more as a trade rather than as an investment.
That is correct and while many people think bitcoin is volatile today, the volatility back then was on a whole different level. That alone somehow manifests the impression in your head that you should buy low and sell high and trust me, I hate that slogan "buy low sell high". But since it went like a roller coaster, a real roller coaster, the whole environment was suggestive of selling when you were up 100% and then waiting for the dump because for quite some time it did exactly that on an intraday basis.

Now seriously, I could slap myself in the face, or well, I have left that behind me. But rest assured, symbolically I had tears in my eyes at times because I thought "hey man, you went into this rabbit hole because you thought this is huge, and yet you couldn't convince yourself right in time to just hold".

I did put some aside and by the way I was generous back at the time, too. Said "hey try it out" and send some... lol. But @JJG I can clearly tell that the times quickly changed from "wow, this volatility is fun and excitement and I try to time the market" to "how the hell can I get my hands onto more BTC".

But this is the point that some people here don't get. I am the perfect example of someone who on the one hand was fascinated by the technology, and on the other hand couldn't really believe that this is going to trillions. I have underestimated the massive influx of average retail people around the world. I read some books later on about market anomalies and how they spread like wild fire. Now bitcoin is not an anomaly in the classic sense, but in regards to how something that is perceived as an opportunity by people spreads like wild fire, bitcoin is similar to the Tulip mania in the Netherlands. Tulips in contrast were worthless of course. But there were many similarities, for example like the shit coin craze, the Tulip craze led people to raise all sorts of other Tulips hoping to make some cash selling them.

That leads me to the last point, I have never doubted that bitcoin does indeed have intrinsic value. And based on my own hypothesis that bitcoin has intrinsic value, I should have concluded earlier that trading with a large portion of your holdings is the worst of all options.

As it says here "Buy the DIP, and HODL", I have also left the "Buy the DIP" thing behind me. I have monitored the price all day long back in the days and there were actually still some serious dips in relative terms because 50% back then meant nothing while 50% today is close to a financial crisis  Smiley That is why I recommend Buy... and HODL. If the portfolio is large enough to sell some for profit for strategic reasons because someone feels like diversifying would be a good move (or have some cash for contingencies), then so be it. But in general, don't wait for the DIP unless we have gone through an unreal bull run for weeks and you think that a DIP is inevitable. That's possible by the way. If the market looks overheated, it can be ok to just lean back for a moment and watch. But then it is still bitcoin and it could be wrong as well. Just make a decision and don't regret it later.

I have no argument with anything that you say, yet I would just like to emphasize that it can be quite difficult for guys who are at various stages in their BTC accumulation journey to figure out how much to blindly rely upon ongoing, persistent and consistent BTC accumulation versus witnessing some kind of great BTC price rise and then start to speculate that it might be better to slow down in their BTC accumulation and to wait for dips that may or may not end up happening.  We cannot really answer for others and everyone should be attempting to decide for themselves in terms of how aggressive they are able to be in their first BTC cycle and/or even if they might have had been able to front-load their BTC accumulation in the early days of their BTC investment...

So sometimes size of stash can help to justify some level of waiting for a dip, yet it still might not be a very productive use of time to wait rather than just regularly buy.. .even though the longer that we are managing our cashflow and buying BTC with it, the more likely that we can find categories of funds that serve more than one purpose, so then even if some extra funds might not specifically be designated for buying the dip, they still could end up serving that purpose.. and whether or not we increase or decrease our regular DCA amounts seem to also be a product of how much BTC we already accumulated and/or how much time we had already spent getting used to accumulating BTC, yet there are also guys who fuck up when they attempting to strategically adjust their DCA amounts.. so each person is responsible when they try to be smarter than their own good, including if we get several years down the road and some guys end up realizing that they were way too whimpy in their BTC accumulation style and they figure out that they probably were spending way too much time trying to figure out when their might be a dip rather than just focusing on regularly buying and other ways to increase their discretionary income by either increasing their income of cutting their expenses.
hero member
Activity: 1890
Merit: 824
Defend Bitcoin and its PoW: bitcoincleanup.com
October 29, 2024, 12:07:20 AM
I am posting this here because the other thread got locked, but since it fits into this topic, I thought it is ok.

I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed.
Am I missing something mate, because I know that bitcoin was created in 2009, so how did these people you said you ask about bitcoin will have the knowledge of bitcoin or digital currency in the 90s.

You might be misreading tiCeR.  I think that he is merely saying that guys that he was talking with about bitcoin had extensive backgrounds in digital currency, and they had experiences that went back into the 90s, even though he was talking with them in 2011 or 2012-ish.. .. and so their experience would not have been bitcoin specific, but instead products related to bitcoin that caused them to be somewhat skeptical about the longevity/durability/investibility of bitcoin.. so back in those days, he (tiCeR) was influenced to (or suade into based on BTC's volatility too) treat bitcoin more as a trade rather than as an investment.

That is correct and while many people think bitcoin is volatile today, the volatility back then was on a whole different level. That alone somehow manifests the impression in your head that you should buy low and sell high and trust me, I hate that slogan "buy low sell high". But since it went like a roller coaster, a real roller coaster, the whole environment was suggestive of selling when you were up 100% and then waiting for the dump because for quite some time it did exactly that on an intraday basis.

Now seriously, I could slap myself in the face, or well, I have left that behind me. But rest assured, symbolically I had tears in my eyes at times because I thought "hey man, you went into this rabbit hole because you thought this is huge, and yet you couldn't convince yourself right in time to just hold".

I did put some aside and by the way I was generous back at the time, too. Said "hey try it out" and send some... lol. But @JJG I can clearly tell that the times quickly changed from "wow, this volatility is fun and excitement and I try to time the market" to "how the hell can I get my hands onto more BTC".

But this is the point that some people here don't get. I am the perfect example of someone who on the one hand was fascinated by the technology, and on the other hand couldn't really believe that this is going to trillions. I have underestimated the massive influx of average retail people around the world. I read some books later on about market anomalies and how they spread like wild fire. Now bitcoin is not an anomaly in the classic sense, but in regards to how something that is perceived as an opportunity by people spreads like wild fire, bitcoin is similar to the Tulip mania in the Netherlands. Tulips in contrast were worthless of course. But there were many similarities, for example like the shit coin craze, the Tulip craze led people to raise all sorts of other Tulips hoping to make some cash selling them.

That leads me to the last point, I have never doubted that bitcoin does indeed have intrinsic value. And based on my own hypothesis that bitcoin has intrinsic value, I should have concluded earlier that trading with a large portion of your holdings is the worst of all options.

As it says here "Buy the DIP, and HODL", I have also left the "Buy the DIP" thing behind me. I have monitored the price all day long back in the days and there were actually still some serious dips in relative terms because 50% back then meant nothing while 50% today is close to a financial crisis  Smiley That is why I recommend Buy... and HODL. If the portfolio is large enough to sell some for profit for strategic reasons because someone feels like diversifying would be a good move (or have some cash for contingencies), then so be it. But in general, don't wait for the DIP unless we have gone through an unreal bull run for weeks and you think that a DIP is inevitable. That's possible by the way. If the market looks overheated, it can be ok to just lean back for a moment and watch. But then it is still bitcoin and it could be wrong as well. Just make a decision and don't regret it later.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
October 28, 2024, 11:09:39 PM
Sure people should try not to be stupid, since no one should want to lose any money, even if it is ONLY $10.. yet if they start with a small amount, then their security should be in line with the amount invested, and realizing that if they hold coin with a third party then there are various kinds of risk but also that if the bitcoin gets stolen (like through a hacked account), then it is likely that the transaction is irreversible if the hacker takes the bitcoin, even if the bitcoin is with a third party..  At the same time, holding private wallets can also be complicated, including if the bitcoin are held on a hot wallet versus a cold wallet.

These matters of the various kinds of wallets need not be learned prior to getting started, since getting started is one of the most important things. and yeah, there is a difference between the incomes of people in regards to how much security that they might feel that they need based on their income and/or their other resources, so there is a difference between investing $10, versus $100, versus $10k versus $500k or some other amounts...and yeah, sometimes there needs to be extra security to account for potential changes in value.. since for example, even in 2020/2021, there might have been some guys who might have been somewhat lax in their security if they had $8k invested or in a wallet, but then after the BTC price went from $7k to more than $60k their $8k might have all of a sudden turned into $70k-ish.. and similarly in 2017 (although that is further back in history, when $5k to $8k might have been in some wallets and the BTC price was around $250-ish in mid to late 2015 - yet by late 2017, the BTC price went up nearly 78x, so that $5k to $8k would have turned into $390k to $624k, and so that would have been an even more extreme example how the security should have been more important, since maybe a person might have been o.k. to keep $5k to $8k on their phone.. even though that seemed a bit much, but then if the amount turned into $390k to $624k.. then they might have become quite nervous since maybe their whole networth might have been less than $50k and then all of a sudden their whole networth goes up 8x to 10x or more and much of their value is on their phone, which would not have had been a very good and/or secure place to be. .even though I think some folks did find themselves in those kinds of situations in 2017.. and their security did not keep up with the size/value appreciation of their BTC holdings.
Not many take Bitcoin security serious unless they lose Bitcoin by becoming victim of hacking or through other scams. There are many security measures available but it largely depends on how serious your are in securing your Bitcoin. If someone is serious in Bitcoin security then he will defiantly learn ways on how to secure his Bitcoins whether it's 100$ or 100k$. We don't know when our 100$ will become 1000$ because of Bitcoin volatility. One must keep this in mind that we constantly need to upgrade our security measures all the time. Hackers are defiantly more interested in 1000$ but that doesn't mean that they will spare 100$. Think from that perspective.     

You are likely correct with any kind of suggestion that once a hacker (or person who gets access to another person's keys or wallet or account) has access, the amount may well still be taken whether it is small or large, yet I doubt that there is any real value to attempt to parse out the mentality of any kind of hacker or person who might get ahold of our keys.

It does seem important to spend more effort when more value is at stake or that the value of the loss is greater in the event that someone might get access to our keys or our account.

When a person is brand new to investing into bitcoin, maybe he is ONLY buying $100 or even $10 per week, so in the first few weeks, it could well be safe enough that the amount is saved on some account or even on a hot wallet that is on his phone, yet if the amount grows and grows and grows through ongoing buying and/or through possible BTC price appreciation, it likely becomes more and more important to figure out how to secure the coins in better ways. 

For example, it is difficult to imagine that a person might keep thousands or even $100s of thousands of dollars on his cell phone, unless there were maybe some special and/or limited purpose and time that the large amount would be on the phone.. So maybe a large transaction is going to be made, so the amount on the phone might only be there for a few hours or maybe one day or two at most.  Otherwise, maybe the amount on the phone would be no more than what a person might hold in cash in their physical wallet - which truly would vary depending on the kind of neighborhood that a person lives or hangs out in... some places are more dangerous than other places in regards to physical robberies or other kinds of ways a person might be insecure in their person and/or possessions.

It likely is a good practice to have extra security, like in the case that I mentioned in my above post where some value could go up 10x or even 70x in a relatively short period of time, then extra security might be preferable, yet also justifiable to spend some extra money or even create extra steps to access value... At the same time, it would not make a lot of sense to have such high level security for relatively small amounts, and sometimes normal people might end up making their coins so secure that they end up locking themselves out of their coins or even making it overly difficult or complicated that they may well end up losing their coins forever without anyone being able to help them to recover their coins, so there should be concerns about the negative sides to over security or even how it could become more difficult to pass down coins to heirs in event of death and/or permanent incapacitation.... which those surely are individual concerns about how much security should be taken to make sure that the keys/passwords are able to be passed down.. while potentially not giving access to the coins prior to they are authorized to be accessed.

[edited out]
Security the bitcoin investment is the most crucial aspect of the business because without proper security, the whole effort of buying and holding can be brought to ruins. In other words, security of the asset is among the first things everyone should learn before getting started because scammers are becoming very smart and sophisticated these days.

This is the point that I keep trying to make, and guys keep saying the opposite, which I believe is wrong.

If you only have $10 fucking dollars in BTC you do not need to learn a whole bunch of stuff about how to secure your keys and the various kinds of security blah blah blah.

The more that you buy, the more you likely should learn, but you can learn some of these things as you go, and surely some guys might not even realize how vulnerable that they are, so there can be complications in believing coins are secure when they are not.

Unfortunately, many people still do not take the issue of security seriously just like you have rightly stated. This is the reason we still have people who store their assets in centralized exchanges, forgetting the importance of self-custody.

I don't mind continuing to stress that self-custody is better than holding coins with centralized services, yet some folks are going to have challenges to secure their coins in private ways without screwing up their security.

I don't think that the level of security an investor should employed should depend on the amount invested in bitcoin because every money is important. $100 to some people might be like $1 million for some people so both cases require maximum care to the security of the asset.

That is a ridiculous statement to proclaim everyone is the same and security is the same for everyone and/or all amounts.  Of course, there are different levels of security for different amounts, and also people have to also figure out their own abilities to learn and not fuck things up.  When you proclaim that the security is the same for everyone, you fail/refuse to prioritize and/or to tailor your discussion to the varying circumstances of individuals. There maybe be elderly folks who might not have abilities to learn and they might be best off to have third-party accounts and even ETFs. There are also trade-offs in regards to owning actual BTC versus owning exposure to BTC prices by owning shares and/or IOUs. 

It can be difficult to argue how much security a person needs, since some folks might have permanent residential locations and even various places of relatives that they can place keys, and other people might live in more mobile ways with even difficulties of having data on a phone or backing up their data on a phone.  Different kinds of security practices might be practical and/or doable, and there are also some folks who $40k would be 5-10x their annual salary, so they may well have to guard that amount a lot more closely than another person who might have $10 million or more in networth, and the more well to do person might have several million in bitcoin, and also have investments in other assets and property and consider $40k as an amount that he spends every 1-3 months, depending on his activities. 

The first is to learn about self custodian wallets and how not to share secret information to the public.

Do normie newbies need to learn those kinds of things before getting started in bitcoin?  I doubt it.

Another is also not to click on random links to avoid phishing and other security threats. There are other measures the investor must employ to remain safe.

Of course, people vary in their already existing knowledge of secure practices, and secure practices become more important when value is being secured as compared to when mere information is secured, so there is likely value to continue learning how to stay secure, which again the level of security is also going to depend on amounts and also depend on various aspects of the person and his financial/psychological situation.

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.
You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.
I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There are a lot of shitcoiner talking points that may well sound very convincing to a newbie, and so he might not really know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and he may well be convinced by the talking points and/or the influencer who might come off as genuine and/or trustworthy... and maybe even as a person who has an "inside scoop" that helps to get better "bang for the buck."

As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
The percentage means making about 35 percent of the total income we make to be invested?
Even though it is a very good thing but we have to keep in mind other situations and conditions because for the initial 35 percent for DCA I think it is quite difficult to do because after all even though maybe for the first week or month it can still be done but of course this will be a little troublesome in terms of consistency because we cannot handle this large amount if our income remains at $120.
I think it's still good enough if we only allocate at least 20 percent-25 percent because it's possible we can still minimize in terms of needs but for 35 percent it could be torturing yourself even though being in bitcoin is a very good thing to do but forcing yourself because you need to remember that this takes a long time at least 4 years or even more so that with a nominal 35 percent of your income it is still very large in my opinion.

Some of these numbers are a bit screwed up and even confusing.  If a person is able to consistently invest 35% of his income into bitcoin, then after only 3 years he would have had invested a whole year's worth of income into bitcoin, which truly would be a good thing if he is able to sustain himself off of that amount and it could well be the case that bitcoin might go up in value during the investment period too.

One of the issues when dealing with such seemingly small amounts would be that if a person is living off such small amounts, then might he not want to increase his standard of living down the road? 

Standard of living is truly a personal determination, so it is difficult to intervene and to say how much is enough and/or how much is more than enough, though personally I get the sense that if a person is able to invest (or otherwise arrive at having at least 10 year's income into bitcoin), then it starts to become possible to start to live off the BTC as a source of income in a sustainable way as long as the valuation is using the 200-WMA and withdrawals are taking place within limits of no more than 10% per year while the BTC spot price is at least 25% higher than the 200WMA..   

So reaching a high enough level to start sustainable withdrawals might also have better sense of security if some extra amounts are accumulated so that there is a bit of a cushion and the person is able to figure out that the math works for him to transition from accumulating BTC into a status of withdrawing from it.. .. yet there also might be a period of time in which accumulation had stopped and withdrawing had not yet started.. so the BTC holdings might be mostly maintained and presumptively continuing to grow in terms of value, even if the amount of BTC might not be growing in size.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 308
October 28, 2024, 09:14:44 PM
So there is still enough time to invest so it is best to wait long time before investing in bitcoins.


I don't understand what you mean by there is still enough time to invest and also waiting for long before investing.
I don't think there is any need waiting for long time before investing into Bitcoin if the money is readily available and also having some basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment and also ensure the security of the wallet where your Bitcoin is kept to avoid been hack by hack by fruadsters,
Bitcoin investing requires little knowledge at the initial stage. The ones you mentioned fall under basic knowledge. Moreover, the security of the wallet in which the investors keep their bitcoins has to be done by the investor. If your wallet is safe, your bitcoins will be safe. So the wallet seed phrase must be properly secured so that hackers cannot access your wallet in any way.
Quote
trying to wait for long time before investing might lead to procastination so it will be better to start now and adopt the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin where you purchase regularly either weekly or monthly irrespective of the price of Bitcoin and HODL for long.
I have experienced firsthand that waiting too long to invest can hinder investment. Because last couple of days with slight dumping of Bitcoin I was waiting for a lump sum purchase with $430 amount (besides I did regular DCA). I thought maybe the price of bitcoin will come to 65 thousand dollars, but that is not the case, the market has now gone up. So maybe we shouldn't think that we will buy when the price of Bitcoin goes down. Those who wait for the dip period to invest will regret it later when the price of Bitcoin rises. So when investing in Bitcoin be prepared to buy immediately i.e. buy whenever you get an opportunity in any market conditions.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 131
Better days are close
October 28, 2024, 08:08:30 PM
So there is still enough time to invest so it is best to wait long time before investing in bitcoins.


I don't understand what you mean by there is still enough time to invest and also waiting for long before investing.
I don't think there is any need waiting for long time before investing into Bitcoin if the money is readily available and also having some basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment and also ensure the security of the wallet where your Bitcoin is kept to avoid been hack by hack by fruadsters, trying to wait for long time before investing might lead to procastination so it will be better to start now and adopt the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin where you purchase regularly either weekly or monthly irrespective of the price of Bitcoin and HODL for long.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 142
October 28, 2024, 05:49:07 PM
This DCA method is most important for them, because if he deposits a small amount of bitcoins every week and saves it for a long time, it is possible to save the most money in a lump sum or portfolio. Or you should note that this DCA method is not only limited to new and poor investors, it is all people who are rich and both investors can be successful using this method. And the wallet of the person depositing bitcoins must be strong and the key is most important to keep safe.
I absolutely agree with you on how convenient practicing the DCA strategy is. No one can predict the market value correctly whether in the short term or long term. To everyone who thinks Bitcoin is a good long-term investment then adopting DCA as the most preferred strategy is a good idea. Is DCA important? Yes, to new and old investors, DCA is important in several ways;

1. It's a way of saving and investing at once. Instead of saving a certain amount of money for a long time before you start investing. You can invest that amount you would save every week or month directly into your Bitcoin investment.

2. It's more about psychological and emotional comfort. Investing at your pace and what you can afford.

3. Reducing the risk of volatility and other market conditions and eliminating the idea of always timing the market.

I think this is enough for now, but it's more efficient for investors.
hero member
Activity: 3024
Merit: 680
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
October 28, 2024, 02:40:48 PM

Others are distinguishing it that investing in Bitcoin is like a shortcut of it. You just buy and hold and you don't have to worry about anything.

That's also my thinking but then, for generalization of investing. It's still recommended to the investors that are about to make their first investment with Bitcoin to learn the basics of it.

We do trust bitcoin and I'm holding it and keeps on investing on it. But for the newbies, it's their choice to do it without proper knowledge and just learn it through the process.
That's just a rough conversation because in the end there is nothing that short when talking about investing so in the end I am still very opposed to some opinions that say that bitcoin is a shortcut to get an instant profit because this mindset is a mindset that does occur for people who sometimes do not know the process and how to be in bitcoin.
The fact that happens in bitcoin is not just buying and holding and selling when you are already profitable, although in outline it may be justified but in the end investment is not that simple and it takes a long time to achieve the realization or goals we want to achieve because for now bitcoin is a bridge for several people including me in smoothing out financial freedom plans so that buying, holding and selling seem trivial to me.

When talking about choices, everything is the same because we cannot classify beginners or old-timers, all have the same rights where the choice is in their own personal hands. It's just that in this case as an initial suggestion of course bitcoin is the right place or the first choice that should be thought of.
We can classify old timers and beginners.

The old timers will give good advise that a beginner shouldn't dive in unprepared but that's how many of us have met Bitcoin.

We've come unprepared but still we learned it eventually. While we pass on those tips, they have the choice to do it as they wish to without knowing that much and in depth understanding of the basics.
hero member
Activity: 2282
Merit: 560
_""""Duelbits""""_
October 28, 2024, 01:32:48 PM

Others are distinguishing it that investing in Bitcoin is like a shortcut of it. You just buy and hold and you don't have to worry about anything.

That's also my thinking but then, for generalization of investing. It's still recommended to the investors that are about to make their first investment with Bitcoin to learn the basics of it.

We do trust bitcoin and I'm holding it and keeps on investing on it. But for the newbies, it's their choice to do it without proper knowledge and just learn it through the process.
That's just a rough conversation because in the end there is nothing that short when talking about investing so in the end I am still very opposed to some opinions that say that bitcoin is a shortcut to get an instant profit because this mindset is a mindset that does occur for people who sometimes do not know the process and how to be in bitcoin.
The fact that happens in bitcoin is not just buying and holding and selling when you are already profitable, although in outline it may be justified but in the end investment is not that simple and it takes a long time to achieve the realization or goals we want to achieve because for now bitcoin is a bridge for several people including me in smoothing out financial freedom plans so that buying, holding and selling seem trivial to me.

When talking about choices, everything is the same because we cannot classify beginners or old-timers, all have the same rights where the choice is in their own personal hands. It's just that in this case as an initial suggestion of course bitcoin is the right place or the first choice that should be thought of.

hero member
Activity: 3024
Merit: 680
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
October 28, 2024, 12:48:50 PM
Yeah, that's what I am saying about basic knowledge. Understanding that Bitcoin is moving quickly and prices vary from time to time.

It's true that they can buy and just understand it later. But in general speaking about investing, someone shouldn't get into an investment that they don't totally understand even the basics of it.
The first investment in any investment is to invest in learning to have a better understanding. When there is no knowledge about a particular investment it means you are investing in nothing, it doesn't even matter if what you are using to invest is much. When their is no knowledge in an investment it is possible to be at last which the investment won't be even productive. Knowledge carries the information one is suppose to know concerning an investment and if the knowledge is not there it means one knows nothing.
Others are distinguishing it that investing in Bitcoin is like a shortcut of it. You just buy and hold and you don't have to worry about anything.

That's also my thinking but then, for generalization of investing. It's still recommended to the investors that are about to make their first investment with Bitcoin to learn the basics of it.

We do trust bitcoin and I'm holding it and keeps on investing on it. But for the newbies, it's their choice to do it without proper knowledge and just learn it through the process.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 677
October 28, 2024, 11:22:37 AM

As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
The percentage means making about 35 percent of the total income we make to be invested?
Even though it is a very good thing but we have to keep in mind other situations and conditions because for the initial 35 percent for DCA I think it is quite difficult to do because after all even though maybe for the first week or month it can still be done but of course this will be a little troublesome in terms of consistency because we cannot handle this large amount if our income remains at $120.
I think it's still good enough if we only allocate at least 20 percent-25 percent because it's possible we can still minimize in terms of needs but for 35 percent it could be torturing yourself even though being in bitcoin is a very good thing to do but forcing yourself because you need to remember that this takes a long time at least 4 years or even more so that with a nominal 35 percent of your income it is still very large in my opinion.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 316
Get $2100 deposit bonuses & 60 FS
October 28, 2024, 11:03:41 AM
Hope everyone bought the dip, might be the last time we see 65k for a while!

Due to lack of funds and dip wise my investment did not come due to which I could not purchase. But I have my dip purchase date on 25,10,2024, because the emergency fund I had is very small. 
So currently could not buy this 65K dip at most, only 2 more days will be available so I can buy the right dip at the right time.



What makes you think there's going to be a dip on the 25th of October 2024 or are you just guessing?. You are begining to sound like a newbie who doesn't understand how Bitcoin works while you are a Full Member in the forum, though nothing is impossible I mean Bitcoin is a very volatile asset and it can be possible that it may dip on the 25th but that's not how to go about Bitcoin investment, if you really want to increase your portfolio you shouldn't be waiting for dip before you invest and also stop specifying dip date because you may be disappointed. DCA method is very much effective, you don't need to have enough funds before you accumulate and I don't think there's any specific amount while DCAing rather our investment money depends on what we get weekly or monthly that is to say that there can be a decrease or increase in our weekly or monthly income.

Bitcoin wealth is a volatile one yet it continues its momentum like a constant stream. If we look at the Bitcoin market structure, we can see its volatility which you and I can be relatively depressed by.
I'm not depressed by the volatile part of bitcoin because I knew about it before I started investing in it, and I used the money I will not need for a long time to invest in bitcoin so that I will not be worried or get depressed if bitcoin dips or sell my bitcoin at a loss to survive. This is why it is important to invest in bitcoin in such a way you will not find it difficult to solve your daily expenses or want to sell your bitcoin even though you are at a loss just because you are depressed by the volatile part of bitcoin.
Quote
As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
I think it is not right for someone who is earning $120 a month to invest $40 in bitcoin monthly because $80 will not be enough to take care of his monthly expenses, and the person will need to build his emergency funds along as he is accumulating bitcoin, which will make the $80 not last long after emergency funds have been removed. If we must invest in bitcoin aggressively, we should do it in a way that will not affect us in solving our daily expenses, which might make us get off the game, partially or permanently.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 520
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
October 28, 2024, 10:34:21 AM
Yes, that's very right, Investing in bitcoin without in-depth knowledge will not be a big problem because every new investor must know bitcoin from their friends or from social media, when the first purchase is made that is the initial stage for them to approach bitcoin. As you said, early investors do not understand bitcoin, but they buy and hold and their knowledge will increase throughout the journey day by day.

That also applies to new investors, they want to invest in bitcoin, even though they do not understand much about bitcoin but they have a lot of time to learn about bitcoin.
The investor's journey in investing in bitcoin only needs to know about the initial steps, namely buying on a trusted exchange and withdrawing it to a personal wallet, that's enough for the initial stage before they learn along with the accumulation they do.

Even if they don't know these initial steps or can't do the initial steps themselves, they can enter the investment through a trusted friend/reliable person. Basically when you plan or decide to invest you should not delay at all. But you must be an expert and learn the basics very soon. Because you should not depend on others for a long time.

Later when you are able to acquire basic knowledge and can make your own purchases then you should continue to try to gain knowledge about Bitcoin, because in order to manage investment you need to know what Bitcoin is and how to invest in Bitcoin and when to take action. I consider it essential to gain knowledge on the subject.
I disagree with you that a brand new investor that want to start his bitcoin investment shouldn't have the basic knowledge of bitcoin before investing. This is strange because how will you invest on something that you have zero knowledge on. To  have the basic knowledge of bitcoin i very important for anyone that wants to start his bitcoin investment because it is simple, and this is why it is encouraged that you need the basic knowledge for you to invest, because you can learn as you are investing since it is a long term investment, rather than waiting to have the concrete knowledge before investing.

Bitcoin investment is not like a traditional investment that takes time before you can understand the business before setting it up. Bitcoin investment is learn as you buy, and keeping on learning and buying. Whoever does not learn the basic of bitcoin before investing is not serious and dumb because you can learn the basics on the internet.

Learning the basic doesn't take you much as a Bitcoin enthusiast, I mean you ought to have heard something sometimes that caught your interest before starting up one day that you would invest in Bitcoin and that feeling alone is the stepping stone. The basic about Bitcoin isn't hard to get access to that's if you have the internet ofcourse, I mean it doesn't take much to understand the general principle of investment which is saving money long term for profit which is same with Bitcoin.

There are some key principle and knowledge you get to know along the way in your Bitcoin investment journey which is important so you don't fuck everything up but the major step firstly to take is actually getting to start up the investment because I feel waiting to gather all vital knowledge before investment is somehow like procrastinating cause fear of doing the wrong thing will just keep you away from buying and the longer you wait to be perfect the more opportunities you get to miss out.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
October 28, 2024, 09:50:09 AM

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.

You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.


I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
hero member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 538
October 28, 2024, 06:40:57 AM

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.

You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.

There is a website listing the dead coins and as far as I can tell the website is by no means up to date. It says that a little less than 2,000 coins are dead by now, but I guarantee that number must be significantly higher. It's in the thousands for sure and it is more than 2,000 no doubt.

I would never give up on BTC holdings to get into an ICO. If anyone ever considers an ICO, rather do it with disposable income. Do not liquidate BTC as there is risk on all fronts. BTC could go up in the meantime and you lose out. The ICO (99.9% likely) fails and you lose it all. Your money is stuck because the ICO says the project launches in January but they didn't mention the specific year... Tongue you get the sarcasm. Many issues and then you are angry with yourself because you used the most precious of your portfolio to buy the biggest bullshit.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 307
October 28, 2024, 06:09:36 AM
Sure people should try not to be stupid, since no one should want to lose any money, even if it is ONLY $10.. yet if they start with a small amount, then their security should be in line with the amount invested, and realizing that if they hold coin with a third party then there are various kinds of risk but also that if the bitcoin gets stolen (like through a hacked account), then it is likely that the transaction is irreversible if the hacker takes the bitcoin, even if the bitcoin is with a third party..  At the same time, holding private wallets can also be complicated, including if the bitcoin are held on a hot wallet versus a cold wallet.

These matters of the various kinds of wallets need not be learned prior to getting started, since getting started is one of the most important things. and yeah, there is a difference between the incomes of people in regards to how much security that they might feel that they need based on their income and/or their other resources, so there is a difference between investing $10, versus $100, versus $10k versus $500k or some other amounts...and yeah, sometimes there needs to be extra security to account for potential changes in value.. since for example, even in 2020/2021, there might have been some guys who might have been somewhat lax in their security if they had $8k invested or in a wallet, but then after the BTC price went from $7k to more than $60k their $8k might have all of a sudden turned into $70k-ish.. and similarly in 2017 (although that is further back in history, when $5k to $8k might have been in some wallets and the BTC price was around $250-ish in mid to late 2015 - yet by late 2017, the BTC price went up nearly 78x, so that $5k to $8k would have turned into $390k to $624k, and so that would have been an even more extreme example how the security should have been more important, since maybe a person might have been o.k. to keep $5k to $8k on their phone.. even though that seemed a bit much, but then if the amount turned into $390k to $624k.. then they might have become quite nervous since maybe their whole networth might have been less than $50k and then all of a sudden their whole networth goes up 8x to 10x or more and much of their value is on their phone, which would not have had been a very good and/or secure place to be. .even though I think some folks did find themselves in those kinds of situations in 2017.. and their security did not keep up with the size/value appreciation of their BTC holdings.
Not many take Bitcoin security serious unless they lose Bitcoin by becoming victim of hacking or through other scams. There are many security measures available but it largely depends on how serious your are in securing your Bitcoin. If someone is serious in Bitcoin security then he will defiantly learn ways on how to secure his Bitcoins whether it's 100$ or 100k$. We don't know when our 100$ will become 1000$ because of Bitcoin volatility. One must keep this in mind that we constantly need to upgrade our security measures all the time. Hackers are defiantly more interested in 1000$ but that doesn't mean that they will spare 100$. Think from that perspective.     
Security the bitcoin investment is the most crucial aspect of the business because without proper security, the whole effort of buying and holding can be brought to ruins. In other words, security of the asset is among the first things everyone should learn before getting started because scammers are becoming very smart and sophisticated these days. Unfortunately, many people still do not take the issue of security seriously just like you have rightly stated. This is the reason we still have people who store their assets in centralized exchanges, forgetting the importance of self-custody.

I don't think that the level of security an investor should employed should depend on the amount invested in bitcoin because every money is important. $100 to some people might be like $1 million for some people so both cases require maximum care to the security of the asset. The first is to learn about self custodian wallets and how not to share secret information to the public. Another is also not to click on random links to avoid phishing and other security threats. There are other measures the investor must employ to remain safe.
full member
Activity: 742
Merit: 201
October 28, 2024, 05:36:20 AM
Sure people should try not to be stupid, since no one should want to lose any money, even if it is ONLY $10.. yet if they start with a small amount, then their security should be in line with the amount invested, and realizing that if they hold coin with a third party then there are various kinds of risk but also that if the bitcoin gets stolen (like through a hacked account), then it is likely that the transaction is irreversible if the hacker takes the bitcoin, even if the bitcoin is with a third party..  At the same time, holding private wallets can also be complicated, including if the bitcoin are held on a hot wallet versus a cold wallet.

These matters of the various kinds of wallets need not be learned prior to getting started, since getting started is one of the most important things. and yeah, there is a difference between the incomes of people in regards to how much security that they might feel that they need based on their income and/or their other resources, so there is a difference between investing $10, versus $100, versus $10k versus $500k or some other amounts...and yeah, sometimes there needs to be extra security to account for potential changes in value.. since for example, even in 2020/2021, there might have been some guys who might have been somewhat lax in their security if they had $8k invested or in a wallet, but then after the BTC price went from $7k to more than $60k their $8k might have all of a sudden turned into $70k-ish.. and similarly in 2017 (although that is further back in history, when $5k to $8k might have been in some wallets and the BTC price was around $250-ish in mid to late 2015 - yet by late 2017, the BTC price went up nearly 78x, so that $5k to $8k would have turned into $390k to $624k, and so that would have been an even more extreme example how the security should have been more important, since maybe a person might have been o.k. to keep $5k to $8k on their phone.. even though that seemed a bit much, but then if the amount turned into $390k to $624k.. then they might have become quite nervous since maybe their whole networth might have been less than $50k and then all of a sudden their whole networth goes up 8x to 10x or more and much of their value is on their phone, which would not have had been a very good and/or secure place to be. .even though I think some folks did find themselves in those kinds of situations in 2017.. and their security did not keep up with the size/value appreciation of their BTC holdings.


Not many take Bitcoin security serious unless they lose Bitcoin by becoming victim of hacking or through other scams. There are many security measures available but it largely depends on how serious your are in securing your Bitcoin. If someone is serious in Bitcoin security then he will defiantly learn ways on how to secure his Bitcoins whether it's 100$ or 100k$. We don't know when our 100$ will become 1000$ because of Bitcoin volatility. One must keep this in mind that we constantly need to upgrade our security measures all the time. Hackers are defiantly more interested in 1000$ but that doesn't mean that they will spare 100$. Think from that perspective.     
Pages:
Jump to: