Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 507. (Read 122936 times)

Of course there are degrees in which some of us might attempt to time the market or to attempt to buy more on the dip or to buy less because we expect a dip to come in the future (that may or may not happen), so in that regard, there can be variance in terms of how much we end up attempting to strategize buying dips, which might not exactly be trading, but it is a kind of behavior that would deviate from a more strict practice of DCA buying that would not be so much concerned about whether a dip is happening or not.

Surely a more strict kind of trading would be to be selling BTC because you have a belief that the price is going to sufficiently drop lower in order that you would be able to buy back more than what you previously had (prior to your selling), and there are various ways in which selling can occur in terms of how much of your BTC portfolio that you might sell, how much of a dip that you would expect to experience before buying back, so there could be some variations of selling on the way up that might not really fit into traditional ideas of trading because at the time that you sell you are not expecting to buy back at lower prices, and maybe you end up selling lower amount or maybe you do end up using some or all of that money to buy BTC back because the BTC price ended up dropping.. but at the time that you sold, you were not selling for the purpose of expecting to be able to buy back at lower prices.

I tend to believe that it is not good to sell BTC with intentions to buy BTC back lower unless you get to a level of profits that causes your behaviors to be profitable no matter what you do, and in those kinds of cases, you have already reached a certain (high) level of BTC accumulation that you have a lot of options - which might not really be the case for anyone in their earlier stages of BTC accumulation and maybe that they have not even saved up a whole year of salary (in BTC) so they are hardly even close to having any kind of meaningful size in their budget in order that they should be feeling that they have a lot of options... and surely, guys (and gals) will vary in their determinations regarding how much BTC they feel that they need to accumulate in order to feel that they have a lot more BTC portfolio management options that might include both buying and selling with goals of BTC accumulation or whatever it might be that they feel their goals to be in terms of if they feel that they are mostly in BTC accumulation stages, or maintenance or liquidation.. and whether those different stages might trigger at 1x annual salary, 10x annual salary 25x annual salary or at some other point (possibly a higher threshold).... It seems to me that if guys (and gals) have not even accumulated 1x or 2x their annual salary, then they are likely not in a good position to be selling any of their BTC until they reach much higher levels of BTC accumulation.. and sure my opinion is likely to vary from the opinion of others on this matter in terms of where the threshold of sufficiently high enough BTC accumulation is enough...

I already mentioned in a previous post that in traditional asset evaluation circles, you likely need somewhere in the ballpark of 20x to 30x your annual salary to get to entry-level fuck you status.. and so getting into entry-level fuck you status might well be a reasonable goal for some people.. that could affect how they view their BTC accumulation or maintenance (management) in order to strive towards giving financial freedom (or at least financial options, if that might be part of what is sought).

Long term holding far more better and less risky, compared to trading, which is why i spend more time on reading Bitcoin speculative comments rathers to look for a trading package, because, by accumulating Bitcoin consistently I will arrive.at my financial goals easily and securely but unlike trading which is a gamble, one can lose everything at some point so i will rather hold for the long term rather than to risk everything trying to catch in on short-term trading gains.

I think buying more Bitcoin during a dip period shouldn't be considered as trading, even though that is what it is in practice, but also since accumulation is done occasionally, it cant be referred to as passive trading since a buyer may not even take note or try to take advantage of any leverage, all a holder does is to make a new purchase at internal unlike like passive traders, who are engaged with the market constantly and this activity reflect the activeness in day to day trading.

I somewhat understand what you are saying about some of the additional considerations in regards to being small, yet I would somewhat fight about this idea - and even Wind_FURY has brought it up many times..... and I tended to ongoingly assert that management of your BTC holdings (or even your cashflow) is not so much about how BIG or small you are, but instead in regards to reaching certain levels of profitability.

Of course, there can be confusion and overlap of the ideas because if you are early in your wealth accumulation, it may well NOT really seem like very much money that you are working with, and if you are adding $10 per week, it could take a long time to reach any kind of meaningful levels of accumulation... .. so sometimes we might consider what is the annual amount that we need to live, and if we were saving/investing 10% of our annual income, it may well take us 10 years to reach 1 year's annual income (that is if the investment asset merely just keeps up with inflation)... so yeah, if we had been investing for a while, then we might start to have several years worth of income in our investment portfolio.. and so then we are likely at more liberty to manage our holdings in different ways, and surely I have not been an advocate of selling any BTC prior to reaching a certain level of investment comfort (which likely is going to vary from individual to individual) and so for me, we are on a similar page in terms of talking about building to get up to a certain level, and selling is not part of the strategy to build.. .



I suppose that I mostly agree with this because once any of us gets to a state that we are able to sell on the way up (rather than just merely buying regularly and buying on the way down), we probably should be selling on the way up just to be able to offset some of our already having had achieved overexposure to the asset (in this case bitcoin), so maybe we start out by investing around 10% of our annual salary into bitcoin, and then maybe we do not have any other investments, so after a few years, we might start to get close to having all our investments ONLY in bitcoin, so in those kinds of cases, there may be some considerations regarding how to diversify some of the value out.. even though it is not necessarily a good idea to diversify out of winners and then end up investing in losers.

In terms of diversification, I am not referring to shitcoins, but instead diversifying out of bitcoin and into other asset classes.. maybe property and index funds.. and so these are difficult choices when trying to build wealth... and it is not so much about trading even though there may well be strategies that contribute to differing ways of portfolio management and investing into other items that might be affected more by if the price of BTC is either up or down.. and another difficulty is trying to be able to identify which asset might be more up or down than others, especially right now when the market value of so many asset classes is perverted by cheap money and outrageously and increasing levels of overall debt in society that systematically ends up affecting everyone and all of the various possible investments that can be made.


That does seem like a healthy way to think about your bitcoin while you are building the size of your holdings, and surely it is possible that it could take less than 10 years to reach 1 year worth of salary, even though historically, there have been some folks who ended up accelerating their wealth appreciation through their ongoing increasing of their BTC stash that ended up paying off when BTC prices went up.. and yeah, we know that there are no guarantees.. but still at minimum, many of us are still going to hope that after 5 or 10 years or more investing into bitcoin that we would be able to look back and see that bitcoin was at least as good of an investment as anything else that we might have had been able to invest into, and it would be icing on the cake if bitcoin were to have had outperformed other asset classes, even though surely there are no guarantees that it is going to have had outperformed all asset classes, and we merely are making an asymmetric bet in that potential for profit direction that may or may not end up playing out.

As a small bitcoin holder i dare not to trade with BTC if I wish. Because volatility might eat up my little BTC. But for small holders I think holding Bitcoin is more suitable than trading. A trader is not always profitable. But I want to keep myself out of this calculation of profit or loss and try to keep up with DCA. There are many small BTC holders like me who were afraid to dream. Today they dare to dream that is only by holding BTC. A big trader might be able to temporarily invest in Bitcoin and walk away with money but there are many holders like us who choose Bitcoin as their permanent asset. More than gold or any other precious commodity, BTC has come to be considered a permanent asset to our holders. When the price of Bitcoin falls, some people express disappointment, but some holders like us smile because there will be an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a lower price.

yes, and we as human beings and given reason and mind by God,
so we have to be able to think well and we have to learn to strategize and we have to fight as hard as we can.
and invest in btc in my opinion need an investment trading strategy and so on.

and usually many people are forced to sell btc because of emergencies such as illness,
which of course requires a large fee.

and in my opinion it would be better if a btc investor has a health card or health insurance. With the aim not to interfere with investing in btc.

as simple as possible, can you interpret this to provide broader insight. I'm not going to do something that I've missed in previous years I mean not gradually accumulating bitcoin in my portfolio. So going back to the basics and building awareness of things that have happened before to do it in each period with the DCA strategy and have a bit of an aggressive spirit that I can increase when I get higher earnings.

In adjusting the level of purchases, investors generally do it gradually, and they also do it repeatedly until they get a certain momentum in each of their purchases to multiply aggressively when they have the confidence to do so.

I must say that this is an absolutely correct conclusion and one of the facts that many investors have experienced. We can only plan something consistently, but in practice it is difficult and it is still very possible to change, especially when we are faced with a precarious situation.

Strategy does not have to be rigid, while it can still be adjusted over time as long as the goal is achieved. There's no need to force it, and it should be something that's done as simply as possible.

Fair enough in regards to your attempt to describe some sharing of values, yet I would expect that each person is going to differ in regards to the various ways that they accumulate BTC, maintain their BTC stash or even engage in liquidation practices.. .. and some folks will be more introspective in terms of analyzing their budget and their practices, and other people will resort to gambling tactics/techniques, and perhaps there could be some shared intentions in terms of "everyone wants to get richie," but at the same time, some folks will not engage in certain risks, and/or they might also consider certain practices to be morally reprehensible, so they won't do them, even though they might be able to get rich by scamming others.. for example.

There are all kinds of variations including that each of us likely will be coming to different assessments in terms of how we choose to invest that should include some kinds of assessment regarding our particulars related to cashflow, how much bitcoin you have already accumulated, your other investments, your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, timeline, risk tolerance, and your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.

Some people are going to be more thorough than others in terms of tailorizing their approach to their own circumstances, and some people will learn how to improve their techniques along the way, so sometimes their earlier errors might contribute to their improvement, and surely some people do not ever overcome their willingness to take risks... even if it might not be for their own good - and even other people have difficulties learning from their past mistakes so they end up repeating past mistakes over and over and over.

You may or may not come to success through trading or through selling BTC on the way up and buying on the way down, and personally, I remain quite reluctant to suggest anyone engage in any kinds of meaningful selling of bitcoin on the way up in order to buy more on the way down, even though I am accepting of such a practice in moderation.. and I already know from experience that there are a lot of people who have real difficult times being moderate in their actions or even difficulties in weighing how to go about moderate kinds of practices.. and some people are never going to even agree with a "moderation" framework, but instead believe "in themselves" and believe that they can "beat the odds," which sometimes may well end up being true, even though many times it is not true.. and even sometimes emotions get in the way.. and such emotions could have had been sparked from their past practices or even traumatic experiences that they had in their lives or maybe such emotions might ONLY come on the margins in certain stressful times in which it becomes difficult to control emotions (and they may or may not even be able to realize it, while it is happening) and then causing them to do the wrong things (in terms of failing to buy or selling too soon or some variation of such).

So, there may be ways in which people share practices, but when push comes to shove, there likely are a lot of variations in terms of how values and personalities and personal circumstances are going to affect what people do, whether they end up profiting from their practices or not.

Actually it's not easy to read the behavior of the market in trading it will be much more complicated if they want to increase it there whereas the convenience of owning bitcoin is much more meaningful which will avoid losses of course in BTC trading it will be very difficult to gain so I also not against trading, you will be more comfortable with the accumulation of additional money because if you trade, you will definitely rotate the capital that has been built from the start.

DCA is a healthy way for us to continue to accumulate, the pressure here is not too heavy when there is additional money to enter DCA and let it run according to the cash flow you want as long as you can manage it properly.

Whatever it is financial management is very important.

Lol, I perfectly agree with you and no one is perhaps selling anything here, and what's it to sell? Me, I so much understand you, just trying to explain how else an effective way to know the market psychology. Mind you, you might see it in the way of trading, but it's way beyond that, I see it in the way of speculation which both traders and investors could benefit from.

Our styles and ideology on this might not be the same but I can assure you that it's still towards the same goal.

Very well said JJG even I have some living examples in my network who owned a good amount of Bitcoins and they went for trading to increase the number of their holdings but it went into reverse mode and lost around 25%. Avoiding loss is also considered as Profit. So your advice is acceptable for those who don't know the market behaviors and trading skills.

Whoever wants to start accumulating Bitcoin whether in a Bearish market, Consolidation, or Bull market in every circumstance the DCA works efficiently to provide a reasonable average price of the Investment.

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

I respect the views of you guys, however, let me ship my little idea.

Many assume a lot with Bitcoin psychology, while many are just lucky with their assumptions at times, but still, there are good speculators that don't do that. I am such that believes in not just calling Dump, Pump, or Hodl without a basis for it. It might depend on the angle at which one looks at the market through the tradition/theory/cycle they believe in, but the market will remain the market, and Bitcoin is not an exception so far it's charted. This is why we will always be seen the bottom, peak, and sideways (neutral) in every market including Bitcoin and it might be for either short, medium or long-term, it doesn't market.

That said, there is a basis to knowing these levels and conditions, particularly on the chart, and as an experienced speculator, I know when there are short, medium and long-term actions whether it's to buy, sell or pause the action. And if anyone doesn't want to believe that it's possible, then it's a choice but has been guiding all professional traders around the world.

The market has its psychology, and the psychology could be known under careful studies, while the approach used matters too. And presently, on the long-term view, Bitcoin has bottomed at $15,413 (November 2022's low), it's all bullish now unless it slips below the level. Elliot wave theory, Fibonacci and Trendline studies on both the weekly and monthly charts confirmed it. 'You can take my word for it.'
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Bitcoin will not meet that quoted bottom in the next 2 years. Speculative analysis may not be perfect and also be viewed as a possibility, but when it has been successfully guiding someone with about 85-95% accuracy, then it's worth using.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying Odusko in regards to both the advantages of DCA and the difficuties to figure out BTC price directions during short timelines; however, I may had misspoken a little bit in terms of whether I consider it to be realistic or even meaningful to be labelling switches from bullmarket (or bullcycle) in terms of short-term BTC price happenings, and in that regard, I refuse to accept some of the traditional market assessments regarding what is considered to be bull or bear markets, and largely so far in bitcoin's history, price cycles have tended to play out in four year periods, and it can be quite difficult to know (or to have solid conviction) whether a bottom (or a top) is in, and frequently we are not going to really know until quite far down the road, so there is a bit of a lagging indication regarding whether the bear market is over or the bull market is over.. ..

Yet, even within a bull market we can experience strong and lasting price corrections that would not necessarily constitute that the bull market is over, and in my thinking, merely because we experience a variety of large and/or lasting corrections within bull markets does not justify that the sub movement should be called bear/bull trends.. merely because they are either corrections or they are runs within an overall trend that had not really been broken.

So currently there are questions in regards to whether the $15,479 bottom from November 20, 2022 is the actual bottom for what had been determined to have had been a bear market.. and so whether we have yet transitioned into a bull market or not can still be unclear, and even negated in the event that BTC prices were to return to somewhere within close proximity of those kinds of $15,479 price levels or even go lower.


I cannot disagree with any of that, and to even agree that BTC's price volatility is one of the matters that is closest to inevitable, even though we cannot be completely sure about what direction that the volatility and/or price is going to go, and the ONLY way that we end up profiting from DCA is if the overall trend of BTC is ultimately in an upwards direction.  If BTC price direction ends up spiraling down forever, then DCA ends up NOT paying off.. so there is a bit of a presumption that at some point(s) down the road, BTC prices are going to be higher than current prices and higher than prices in which we are currently buying BTC.. otherwise, DCA would not necessarily work.. which is the case with shitcoins.. we cannot presume that the prices of shitcoins will go up, but it seems fair and reasonable to have some presumptions that we are regularly investing into bitcoin because we believe that ultimately BTC's price is going to trend upward. even if it might take a while to play out and even if the price might not end up going up as high as we might wished it to go...so long as it generally trends up we end up being profitable (and surely, when time comes to potentially cash out some or all of our BTC, then it would be preferred that the BTC price has gone up higher than it's price and also accounting for the devaluation of the dollar that likely will come too)... so we want BTC price appreciation to be profitable in "real terms", and not just nominal terms, while realizing that we are making an asymmetric bet in which our odds seem to be pretty damned good, even while there is no guarantee that our investment will actually end up being profitable  in "real terms."


In dollar terms, we should be better off in 9 years, even if we invest relatively small amounts, and for sure one of the advantages of investing into bitcoin is that we can choose the amount that we believe that we can afford in terms of how aggressive that we want to be, even if we are ONLY able to invest $10 each time that we buy whether we can do that every week or not... but even if we can ONLY invest small amounts, bitcoin does allow us to be able to do that, even though we might need to search and research either a service or a person who is willing to trade with us, even if each of the amounts is low... such as ONLY $10 at a time.


It's probably better to be trying to invest into bitcoin longer.. since 2025 is only 2 years from now.. and bitcoin is likely a 4-10 year or longer investment, if you figure out ways to invest in it with those kinds of longer timelines...which will also likely result in compounding affects upon your investment, too.


Well, maybe my examples are too big for some people, as you suggested ginsan, but you still should be able to figure out numbers that work for your scenario in order to figure out how aggressive would be sufficiently aggressive or what levels might be overly aggressive for you and for your situation (including considering whether you have potential for greater earning power or even potential to cut back on certain costs - but for some folks it might be difficult to imagine higher numbers without some kinds of BIG changes in their own circumstances, so they have to work with what they have in front of them).

And, i understand that some people are in situations in which the wages are not very high, and it may be a bit difficult to work towards increasing wages, so the more practical angle is to consider how aggressive that the person is able to be within the wages that s/he already earns, which may well be way lower than the numbers that I had presented... .and even within whatever numbers that you are working, there are going to be varying levels in which you are able to be aggressive and varying levels in which you are making choices about what kinds of things you want to buy (or invest into) with whatever income that you might have left after you have paid for your necessities.... so there is an expression that people who do not have "discretionary" income are not able to invest.. which makes sense because no one should be investing into bitcoin with money that they have to pay for food or rent or some other basic living expense(s), so if those people with little to no discretionary income do want to invest (into bitcoin or into anything else), then they have to figure out ways to build their situations in such a way that they do end up having "discretionary" income..otherwise they are stuck.. without any investments at all..

The value you mentioned even though it's just a mere comparison, of course it's a pretty fantastic value. normal in my country the ones who earn that much income are those working in government parliament who can make $2500 per month) well covering all of that the most aggressive thing we can do is make purchases in small amounts from each round and it will multiply in the next round. I mean $20/25/30 and so on.

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from that I think we have the same goal of collecting btc in the long term and it won't trigger a strong reaction to do aggressively because we have to be able to balance the income we get. we can follow the DCA strategy but we can't follow the instructions to do aggressively it's a bit hard for us.

While doing the DCA thing make sure you always keep USD closer to you, never run out of USD or stable coins, dips happens when we don't expect them sometimes, the market is too unpredictable and that's why we need to be prepared to take the chances once they are available.

I don't care when the bull Market Will return, all I care about is buying some bitcoin right now before it is too late and hold for a long period of time probably till the year 2025 who knows?   So I agree that buying the dip is the best strategy right now.

Just say invest in bitcoins as this thread covers the full discussion of bitcoins.

The words DIP, and HODL are more appropriate for bitcoin, whereas mentioning crypto doesn't seem quite right.

Yeah, Bitcoin's relationship with the financial system has become of monetary importance. The importance of bitcoin has exceeded human expectations compared to the traditional monetary system. That is what makes bitcoin's position that internal strength and structure of bitcoin will always increase over time. In any cycle I expect to take full advantage of market opportunities, buying dip and hodl has become an easy, simple yet effective method that some people overlook.

Yes. There are always opportunities given by the market to invest in this crypto world. This is like dipping sauce, Buy the DIP, and HODL!

Maybe in 2014 bitcoin was not as popular as it is now there is more and more interest in bitcoin investment in any way so for those who have started in early 2014 for the next 9 years they will make more bitcoins at that time the price is still low and not as big as now, maybe at that time there were very few of them doing DCA with $10 for example so whoever did earlier then he just made more BTC earned.

Slightly different now many have done DCA with their nominal variations included in their dollar cost averaging $10-$100 is a good benchmark depending on how they can afford to do with the cash flow they have along the way, if you start now, for example, doing DCA of as little as $ 10 for 9 years, the BTC you will get will be small but the value will be higher with a price that will increase each cycle.