Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 97. (Read 129963 times)

I agree with you and am very grateful to you for throwing more light to what I have said already, with your statement I strongly believe that you understand my point of view, many newbies wants to be jack of all trade master of known and we already know that this is not part of Bitcoin investment, in every journey there is always a starting point and I believe there should be a goal set for every individual to achieve at the end of their Bitcoin journey, that's why it is important for intending and existing investors to take it one step at a time in other to achieve their aim of investing in the said investment.
When most of us statred this journey we know nothing but today we can testify and tell people what we have learnt so far, if we waited to have more knowledge before investing in Bitcoin, we would t have reach where we are today, I have always known that learning is a continues process and for us to learn, we must be part of the process, if not , we can't learn.

I agree with you that profit is one of the encouraging factor that triggered the interest of many investors in Bitcoin investment but existing and intending investors should know that this profit is not achievable immediately it is future thing and for us to get it right we must keep buying the little we can consistently and continuously until we are sure that our portfolio has reach level we want it to be and we keep holding for the future which is long-term to get the profit we have waited for, in conclusion we must not wait to buy when the market is dip since we can actually use DCA to buy the little we can at any given time, buying at anytime is good and as time goes on if the market dips you can increase your capital and buy more but waithing till it dips before buying is not advisable.

The reason for investing in long-term is because of how volatile bitcoin, because there is constant changes in the market (favourable & unfavourable)  of which holding for long term gives an investor the advantage to maneuver these conditions.  Along an investment journey  different situations and market conditions will unfold itself  but staying committed and dedicated to your well-thought-out plan is what matters keep building your portfolio to hit a good profitable target rather than sell your holdings  because of short-term changes.

As an investor  with a long-term vision selling because of market conditions means you don't really believe in the growth potentials of bitcoin and by doing so also imply that you're allowing emotion cloud your decisions rather than sticking to your plan and strategies and not letting short-term fluctuations destabilise your aims.

Because of the nature of Bitcoin I don't think there's a nice or best time to invest or accumulate because its variation is what we can't predict correctly but the good news is that if one invest now and Bitcoin skyrocket definitely you are going to be on profit. Some people invest in Bitcoin not because they don't know how Bitcoin works but because they want to turn millionaire and billionaire over night ( impatient) that's why they choose memecoins while some people actually lack's knowledge on how Bitcoin works and how to go about it, that is why it is very good to be inform because lack of knowledge can result to a very big disaster.

New Bitcoin Investors and Old Investors why they should Wait for Market Dips. If they adopt DCA strategy in their investments and plan to hold for long term then they can buy or be ready to buy anytime with available funds. I don't think it is very convenient to just buy dips all the time because any situation arises in the market at any time. As you mentioned the price of bitcoin touched $54k then it went up again. So those who didn't buy Bitcoin at that price but thought it would go lower may be regretting the rise in Bitcoin prices right now. Likewise, if the price of Bitcoin rises again from here, they may regret it. Then they will have a reason to regret why they didn't buy bitcoins at that price to invest. That's why DCA investment always gives us an opportunity to buy Bitcoin whether it's a market dip season or a bullish season.
Before investing in Bitcoin, the investor should pay attention to his reserve fund because even if the price of the coin falls in the market, he can use his reserve fund to continue investing. Every dip may scare the investors but if there is enough money to invest, the dip creates more opportunities for the investors, moreover, the level of buying bitcoins increases during the dip season due to continuous DCA.

if you're investing for the long run you're investing for the long run and if you're not that's purely the case. There's nothing like investing for the long run and then trying to sell midpoint along the way because you feel diversification is the way to go or that it's when you've sold at that point that  you've made profit. Mind you that the reason you're selling in this context is because of the market condition that's fluctuating around this price and you feel that it's not favourable for you. It means you've not learned how to manage your emotion and how well you respond to market condition.

No one is suggesting that you will never sell your holding. You will eventually sell it at some point but barely selling because of the market condition mean you weren't ready for long term investment in the first place.
one thing about engaging in investment discussion as this is that even when you don't have the finance to carry it out as a new person in the system, what you're doing is that you're building a mentality that will help you invest well when the resources comes to your disposal. Knowledge is important and maybe it's not everyone that's engaging in this space that is actually doing what he's saying based on limitations of finance but believe  me that a lot of people have started building thier portfolio because they've engaged in this discussion even when at the onset they lacked the idea on how to go about it and never knew it was even possible for them to start somewhere small. Before spending a full circle in the system, I believe you are better prepared to learn, unlearn, relearn and apply all you've learned into use and yet make all the necessary mistakes which will better prepare prepare you for your investment goal. I believe the journey is not a straight forward and an ideal one that you're certain will follow a set out trajectory of continuous buying and never making mistakes at a point. A lot will go down most expecially at this entry phase when you're battling with grasping the right information and sourcing for enough finance that will take care of both your investment, money for upkeep and serve as your emergency funds.

I totally agree.
One thing is to say and to understand, the other is to follow it for real.
It comes with the knowledge at hand and the experience from the past, whether it is mistakes or successes, in my opinion.

For sure, part of the reason to participate in a forum like this (and even in a thread like this) is to bat around ideas including talking about experiences or our making plans and strategies related to bitcoin, so surely I am already aware that the already existing experiences, knowledge and/or cashflow situation is likely to vary quite a bit among members, and so even if my post seemed to have some direct criticisms of Troytech, I am not largely still just attempting to respond to the points that he made in a generally applicable way, including providing my opinion about what seems to have been some inconsistencies in the current ways he is talking about bitcoin in contrast to some of his earlier posts.. and while at the same time emphasizing that this is an investing thread and not a trading thread.   Similar kinds of criticisms can be given in regards to a member who is seeming to mix up ideas of trading in regards to their investment discussions whether they have a lot of discretionary income or not. 


Whether poor or rich, it can take a long time to build up good habits, and surely folks who have low levels of discretionary income will be tempted to invest beyond their discretionary income, so then they end up devolving into trading/gambling rather than investing, and sure there can still be ways to accomplish both, yet those kinds of trading discussions seem to go beyond the scope of this thread.. .since there is a bit of presumption that guys are investing from their discretionary income and they are able to dedicate 4-10 years or more to their investment into bitcoin, and yeah, I understand that not everyone is going to agree to those kinds of parameters or even end up practicing in accordance with investing rather than trading.


We do spend a certain amount of time engaged in semantical arguments in this thread, so there is nothing really wrong with repetition of ideas and clarification, and surely I understand that there could be cases in which guys might come into bitcoin with intentions to invest, but they may devolve into some other practice that might be trading or gambling or selling too much too soon because they had not realized that they had invested beyond their discretionary income and a variety of scenarios in which putting theory to practice can really help guys to learn, even if some of the learning ends up being through mistakes.

You may have aware that not all of the users discussing in this thread have a good financial background. They are also very likely to be unemployed and just hoping for a signature campaign to bring in profits - while their knowledge of investing is learned over time. They certainly understand the strategy theoretically - but chances are, they don't have the courage to do what they say.

I don't mind the theory they put forward as long as it's not misleading - but not all of them understand how to apply it properly. It's even possible that they sell bitcoin every signature campaign payment period ^{[instead holding it long-term]} just to make ends meet, and then how do they build a portfolio or diversify assets when other budget support is not available.

Previously you were talking about building up your BTC portfolio and appreciating that it could take a long time to build up your BTC holdings. 

So now you changed your mind, and you think that it might be good to sell?

And if you diversify you are going to sell bitcoin in order to accomplish such a thing?

When are you going to start with such selling of BTC and/or diversification?  How much do you need to have invested into bitcoin when selling becomes part of the strategy?

Sure, here we are mostly talking about accumulating bitcoin, yet I am not opposed to the idea of considering at what point we might have enough bitcoin, so then we might transition somewhat out of our need to accumulate bitcoin, so does that mean that we go straight to selling bitcoin or might we have some other considerations in regards to management and maintance of our BTC stash?

As I recall, you did not start accumulating bitcoin until recently, maybe even in the last year or so, even though your forum date shows that you registered a couple of years ago, yet from your earlier descriptions of your buying of BTC, I can hardly understand how you would be transitioning out of your BTC accumulation stages, so maybe you can explain how you are now considering selling techniques rather than remaining focused on buying and/or accumulating of BTC... unless perhaps you cannot get yourself out of a trading/gambling mindset?

I will admit that there are not a lot of guys can even get through a whole BTC cycle without getting distracted into  trading/selling/gambling when they should still be in fairly early stages of their BTC accumulation journey, so yeah a lot of guys lack patience to really continue to accumulate and to get to some kind of a meaningful BTC accumulation leavel in which the BTC accumulation helps to inform them about the next steps rather than talking theoretical nonsense about supposed needs to sell BTC in order to diversify... and all of those kinds of mumbo jumbo talking points that tend to show that their thinking is distracted by perceptions of short-term fiat "profits."

You are very optimistic when you said long-term investors should never sell their Bitcoin. Let us be realistic here, the market conditions can change at any time and there may be instances where selling would be a strategy to adopt. Either to maximize profit or to diversify. There is a great advantage of holding for the long term which we all know but there is no possibility that one day we will say. Like what is the point of investing in the first place? Meanwhile, the idea of solely depending on short-term price movement and ignoring the knowledge we have gathered about Bitcoin investment might lead to suboptimal outcomes we do not expect.

Before investing every investor thinks that they will have money and they will buy Bitcoin with that money and when the market is positive they will sell their investment and earn profit thus they will only continue to make profit. But as simple as new investors plan, in reality this matter is very difficult. So the initial investment must be taken seriously. 

If our plan is to buy bitcoins with the amount of money we have and sell the investment at some profit, then it would not be an investment at all but trading. We know investing and trading are two different things. Business is usually done with a short term profit plan but investment has to be planned for the long term. After investing, if the investor gets some profit temporarily, then the investor should not see the profit and sell the coins but should wait for something better.  It is best for the investor if the investor invests consistently for a period of time. I was new and things were difficult for me too but gradually I tried to learn and took difficult things easy now I don't find it very difficult to invest consistently.

Yeah, but so fucking what about either 2% profits or having had been able to buy 2% more BTC with the same amount when the BTC price had dipped.  We are not talking about trading in this thread.  There are all kinds of other thread that you can go present your trading discussion points, or make your own thread on the topic of trading. 

And, yeah, when we are in the midst of a dip, we might even see that BTC prices are getting to be more than 20% lower than the ATH or even some other price point that we might see. and so we can potentially consider that we are getting a bargain as compared to the earlier BTC prices.  We are alto buy 20% more with the same amount of money and then when the BTC price returns to the prior prices, we are able to skim off 20% profits if we were to be trading rather than long term investing.  When we long term invest, we have the potential of our profits to fold in amongst themselves and so we increase our odds of being able to achieve compounding profits rather than just skimming off profits at various points along the way...

And don't get me wrong, I am not even suggesting that the compounding profits is guaranteed, yet I am suggesting that guys who are in their earliest stages of buying BTC and building their BTC holdings are likely not even that well severed by giving a whole hell of a lot of thoughts in regards to how much he is in profits or not in profits, even though I do appreciate that any of us feel better to be in profits rather than having our BTC holdings being in the negative... but it is very difficult for any newbies to really establish any kind of decently sized BTC stash within their first cycle unless they were able to front-load their investment, which truly is not the situation for a lot of people in world, so I am not going to assume that people are going to be able to front load their investment into bitcoin unless they describe their situations to have had been enabling them to accomplish such front-loading of their BTC investment.   

I understand that the title of the thread is a bit misleading since people see buy the dip and then they start to consider trading kinds of ideas, and surely over the past few years of this thread we have been having battles over the ideas of buying the dip versus just plain ole DCA buying, especially for newbies and especially for members who are inclined to invest for the long term in bitcoin rather than trading.. .. so yeah, we have never been talking about trading in this thread, except maybe incidentally, and also if our goals are to accumulate BTC, then many of us already recognize that selling is not a great strategy in order to achieve accumulation goals, and to the extent that you are trying to use selling as a BTC accumulation method, then at least you are potentially closer to the topic, even though many of us are not too excited about selling to be serving as an effective and reliable technique to accumulate more bitcoin, since it also has likely tendencies to devolve into gambling. just like any trading techniques seem to suffer from that same risk of devolving into gambling.


At least you recognize bitcoin as a long term investment.. so at least, we are on the same page in that regard.


Surely if someone already has BTC then he may well have more luxuries to wait for the dip, yet frequently many of us talk about newbies to BTC are likely going to be better off to just continue buying BTC no matter the price, and sure if they happen to have some extra money come in while the BTC price is dipping, then they may well end up choosing to buy more BTC on the dip with that extra money.  So, yeah, there can be some competing ideas about whether anyone in their earliest of stages of bitcoin investment should be just buying BTC all of the time or waiting for dips, and if they are buying BTC all the time, then they probably woudl be happy to see dips during periods that they are continuing to buy, so even if they had bought a lot of BTC at higher prices, they should be able to recognize and appreciate that ongoing buying is putting them into even more of a proactive position in regards to their bitcoin holdings, rather than waiting around for the BTC price to go back up above their earlier higher buy prices.

As I said earlier in the local board today, new investors and old investors of bitcoin are always happy when the price is in the dip and the bear market because that is the best time to accumulate many to the wallet so that whenever the price goes up they will make good profit from it. And what happened last week in the bitcoin price was also good for short term investors like the price was on $54+k and if an investor bought it at that price and today, it is $56+k and the person would make 2% increase as profit. But the best investment plan is long term so you don't have to both yourself to monitor the market.

And nobody can guarantee the price of bitcoin at all time and that is why it is good for the long term investment. And whenever the price dip then it is to refill the wallet for whatever I have. If someone bought it when it is high and the price  suddenly came down to the dip, he should not panic and all what he should do is to pick courage and keep hodling and one day the price would go up again.

There could be a variety of scenarios in which a newbie started out his investment into bitcoin at the top, including front loading (or lump summing) the investment at or near the top, and so it could be the case that he knew that the BTC price might go down and he just wanted to be prepared for UP, so he lump sum invested just in case the BTC price went up, and yeah, as you mentioned, he may well have accounted for that and already had a plan in place to continue to buy with extra funds that he had held aside for such purposes or alternatively to continue to buy with whatever portion of his disposable income that he would have available on a weekly basis if the BTC price went below his purchase price.  Of course, he could DCA in or he could have even set up predetermined buy amounts at various dip points, so he could combine DCAing and buying on the dip to attempt to lessen the blow of his having had bought higher, which also would end up bringing down his average cost per BTC from the price of his initial lump sum purchase.

Another possibility is that the guy might have had made a mistake and used all of his available money and potentially even gotten out a loan, so that he was pretty much all in bitcoin at his first lump sum price, and then he might not have any extra money to keep buying BTC, and he is using any extra money that he has to service the loan that he had taken out.  Surely, we can see that this second situation is worse than the first, and surely the guy still has good chances of still coming out o.k... .but he might have to wait several years to get back into profits in the event that his discretionary income or situation does not improve in such a way that he would be able to authorize more BTC purchases in order to bring down his average costs per BTC. Surely the guy might also had come into bitcoin with a certain budget that he was going to use for buying bitcoin and that he was not going to go higher than his allocated budget.

Even though there are no guarantees in bitcoin that the BTC price will continue to go up, we can likely see that a guy who has various plans to continue to buy might be better in circumstances that the BTC price dips after his initial purchases, yet surely people are going to have their own ideas in regards to the BTC investment strategies, and some people will have been better at planning and/or having some flexibility to roll with the punches than others.


In this thread, we are not talking about cryptocurrencies and/or shitcoins, so I doubt that it is accurate or even helpful to suggest that the same principles apply to crypto or shitcoins as compared to the principles that apply to bitcoin.

For example, with bitcoin you can invest with only mere basic knowledge levels of your cashflow situation and generally develop a bit of a long term investment approach of 4-10 years or longer, yet the same long term plan cannot be applied to shitcoins and the level of knowledge that you need to get into shitcoins is also quite likely to be greater than bitcoin since you should most likely need to have some considerations regarding what you are getting into and what your timeline might be for getting out. There are likely no shitcoins that you should not consider some sort of an exit plan or an exit timeline or to take into account the various centralized vulnerabilities that almost all, if not all, shitcoins have, even when they might be trying to put themselves out there as decentralized or similar to bitcoin or even claiming to be better than bitcoin in various ways.. You should be attempting to evaluate and study those kinds of claims if you were to even come close to attempting to treat any of the shitcoins as investments rather than trades....

and those kinds of shitcoin-related considerations should neither be brought up in this thread or even attempting to suggest that shitcoin considerations are the same that are made with bitcoin. That is not correct, and it is misleading to lump shitcoins together with bitcoin by suggesting (or implying) that shitcoins need similar kinds of considerations as bitcoin.

What some people are trying to explain, and what they want newbies to understand, is that they shouldn't be overly concerned with acquiring an advanced level of knowledge before starting to invest in Bitcoin. The idea is that as long as they have the money and a basic understanding such as knowing how to choose the best exchange for buying Bitcoin they should go ahead and start investing without wasting too much time seeking knowledge that isn't essential at that particular moment.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are fields in which every investor will continue learning over time. Waiting until you reach a certain level of knowledge can be a waste of time, and it could even lead to discouragement from investing. However, if you start investing early, you're more likely to pay close attention to learning how to properly secure and grow your Bitcoin investment. This way, you learn as you go and make progress along the way.

I agree with you that it's not advisable to put your money into something you don't understand, but when it comes to bitcoin investment, anyone interested in it and who has money can easily invest in it even without gaining knowledge about it. Bitcoin investment is not like other investments, in which you will easily lose your money if you don't carry out proper research before starting it. Be it a newbie or an old investor in bitcoin investment, as long as you sell your bitcoin out of panic, you will lose your money. Investing in bitcoin is very simple to do, and anyone who can read and write can figure out how to accumulate bitcoin from a centralized exchange, so that will not be a problem. The main thing newbies should know is whether or not they have a discretionary income that will allow them to invest in bitcoin.

We can't blame them because they are most likely less knowledgeable and do not know the benefits of Bitcoin in general, and maybe the reason is that the price of Bitcoin is already too high so that they can actually buy in small amounts according to their ability. And maybe that's some of the reasons they buy other coins and besides that the hype of new coins especially memecoins is increasing which is actually very risky for them. And it is true that at this time it is still the right choice to buy or continue to do DCA on Bitcoin because in the end the price of Bitcoin will go up again and continue to rise which will provide good profits especially for long-term holders.

I have read through your opinion, and I like the fact that you are coming from an angle where you feel that Bitcoin technicalities has nothing to do with investment, which is very true. But let me add something, which might have been mentioned before (don't really know). How about we say that a newbie should have both objectives and goal in the early phase of investment?, rather than the technicalities that some individuals think. Goals in the sense that, a newbie must have in mind what he hopes to get at the end of the day for the long term plan, while objectives in the sense that he/she will have to perform certain tasks successfully inorder to hit that goal. Ideally, it is the intension of every investor to make profit, which is automatically a goal, but achieving the objectives is a problem for so many. Regular DCAing is an example of objectives that we've mentioned here. Without fulfilling these objectives, your goal will end up becoming a failed mission.

In other sense, it's important for newbies to accept a long term plan that will yield a better result (goal), and stick with a consistent buying strategy (objectives), that will help them fulfill their goals and also enjoy it's benefits.

Edited:
It just occurred to me that the title of the thread is still Buy the DIP and Hold. Though, my explanation above is still valid, but let me add to it. Instead of having an objective to DCA consistently, then we can have an objective of buying the dip at every given opportunity.

All times are the best time to buy bitcoins. But there are times when buying time increases the potential for greater profits, and I consider the present to be such a time. I see no reason to think any time is the best time to get the best value. This is a period that increases the chance of accumulating more bitcoins in your portfolio than using up the previous amount of money.

For those who are worried about this price of bitcoin, I think they should know about the history of bitcoin price. Bitcoin price history is given by - https://www.forbesindia.com/article/explainers/bitcoin-price-history/92523/1
If you read this report carefully, you will see that the price of Bitcoin was dumped more and then recovered. At times Bitcoin has pumped more than 10x-12x after dumping 4x-5x price. If we look at dumping and pumping in 2020 and 2021, we may not be disappointed with Bitcoin's price decline. Because bitcoins must face huge dumps before pumping. It may not be wrong if we say that the nature of Bitcoin pumped after such dumping.

Those who are depressed about the price of Bitcoin should study the history of Bitcoin better and gain more knowledge about Bitcoin. Because it is important to know these information to make the investment long and successful. Disappointment with the price of Bitcoin during holding is more likely to have a negative impact on the investment. So it is important to know Bitcoin to get out of the negative influence, by knowing you can always make positive decisions.

On a subjective viewpoint to me it doesn't seem that problematic as others may be projecting. Due to market uncertainty we should be flexible with our timing plans while accumulating our portfolios be it for a long term or short term accumulation plans.

Having bought a lump sum at a higher price, what the investor needs to do is to adjust his plan giving it more time and if possible he/she can accumulate more BTC while patiently waiting within the adjustment period. You don't lose in BTC DCAing if only you can be patient with the market because it will surely take you back to profit. The only time anyone loses is when they panic sell out of FUD or impatient.