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Topic: Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed. - page 13. (Read 16055 times)

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 11:09:46 PM
#47
They can request 100% for right now. Whether they can get 100% for right now remains to be seen.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-have-applied-for-a-refund-from-bfl-labs-03april13-refunded-05-april-2013-167017
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-bfl-refunds-being-paid-in-usd-and-not-bitcoins-169948

No, it's pretty public information that people have been given refunds in full on a regular basis for any order made up to the point they advertise "no refunds".




The most recent of your examples is still over 10 days old, and of orders placed over 6 months ago. Again, i repeat, for those hard of reading(this means you Mathew N. Wright), if you feel they will ship, keep your order, by all means. if you think they won't, request a refund, when they don't, I am option three.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 11:05:37 PM
#46
if you were paying 0.1 BTC on the original BTC paid, I bet you'd get a lot of offers Smiley

I would also go broke in a god damn hurry. 0.1 btc on an original order would still put me at 55k for a minirig, and $2,400 for a single.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
April 19, 2013, 11:04:39 PM
#45
They can request 100% for right now. Whether they can get 100% for right now remains to be seen.

By you maybe. The rest of us saw it pretty clearly.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-have-applied-for-a-refund-from-bfl-labs-03april13-refunded-05-april-2013-167017
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/regarding-bfl-refunds-being-paid-in-usd-and-not-bitcoins-169948

It's pretty public information that people have been given refunds in full on a regular basis for any order made up to the point they advertise "no refunds".

As for giving 10% of a refund on an order from BFL made *after* that period, I think the offer of 10% is insulting and suspicious despite BFL's drawbacks, and don't mind sharing that opinion in the thread offering it.


Why do you seem to have so much invested in the topic?

I think the offer of 10% is insulting and suspicious despite BFL's drawbacks, and don't mind sharing that opinion in the thread offering it.

hero member
Activity: 631
Merit: 500
April 19, 2013, 10:58:08 PM
#44
if you were paying 0.1 BTC on the original BTC paid, I bet you'd get a lot of offers Smiley
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:57:09 PM
#43
Whatever you paid to get rid of your scammer tag was too much.
I don't think so, and neither do the people whom I paid as they were people who placed bets with me and won. (e.g. the scammer tag was removed because I'm not a scammer)
Oh, right, you're just untrustworthy.

I corrected you on a point by point basis

I couldn't see a single point in there, just baseless speculation of what you personally think happened.

Back to offering 10% of something people can get 100% for right now...

They can request 100% for right now. Whether they can get 100% for right now remains to be seen. As is the intention of this topic.

Why do you seem to have so much invested in the topic?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:51:40 PM
#42

Without giving too much away with regards to my legal strategy, 4 people have made themselves and their personal assets liable by representing themselves as officers of the company in more than 1 country. I'm not opening myself up to scammers by purchasing their "word" that they're selling me their order. I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't make the offer, and won't issue payment without a means to recover my investment. I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

You do realise that staff are not necessarily officers of a company regardless of their inflated job titles.  If you've managed to get 4 people to admit that they're directors of BFL, then more power to you - but you still have to prove more than incompetence on the part of BFL before you can pierce the corporate veil and go after their personal assets (assuming they're not smart enough to have made their assets judgement-proof).  

The reason why such litigation is so rarely pursued is because it's so damned expensive and the prospects of recovering meaningful amounts after legal expenses are so small, especially when multiple jurisdictions are involved.


The reason why i created this offer is because i wouldn't be able to recover the value of my refunds with my own orders. Collectively, WE won't be able to recover the value of our orders. At the value i have placed on BFL debt, i will be able to make myself whole, and people who would otherwise see no return will see something which they can then re-invest, and hopefully make themselves whole. This offer won't make everybody happy, but i believe for most it will provide something from nothing, and through my efforts allow me to at least break even(if not profit, if i'm honest). Again, i don't expect any PMs today, but at some point expect to be swamped.

I have requested and received a refund for my most recent order(of many, i have re-invested my mining proceeds in various offerings as readily as i could), but believe a request for every order would spark the run that would sink BFL as it sunk bASIC.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
April 19, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
#41
So no one wants to sell me apple shares for 20 usd then? they will be worthless one day, I promise.

You should offer to buy Berkshire Hathaway shares instead.  They're bound to crash any day now.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
April 19, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
#40
So no one wants to sell me apple shares for 20 usd then? they will be worthless one day, I promise.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
April 19, 2013, 10:46:22 PM
#39
Whatever you paid to get rid of your scammer tag was too much.
I don't think so, and neither do the people whom I paid as they were people who placed bets with me and won. (e.g. the scammer tag was removed because I'm not a scammer)

I corrected you on a point by point basis

I couldn't see a single point in there, just baseless speculation of what you personally think happened.

Back to offering 10% of something people can get 100% for right now...
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
April 19, 2013, 10:42:27 PM
#38

Without giving too much away with regards to my legal strategy, 4 people have made themselves and their personal assets liable by representing themselves as officers of the company in more than 1 country. I'm not opening myself up to scammers by purchasing their "word" that they're selling me their order. I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't make the offer, and won't issue payment without a means to recover my investment. I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

You do realise that staff are not necessarily officers of a company regardless of their inflated job titles.  If you've managed to get 4 people to admit that they're directors of BFL, then more power to you - but you still have to prove more than incompetence on the part of BFL before you can pierce the corporate veil and go after their personal assets (assuming they're not smart enough to have made their assets judgement-proof).  

The reason why such litigation is so rarely pursued is because it's so damned expensive and the prospects of recovering meaningful amounts after legal expenses are so small, especially when multiple jurisdictions are involved.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
#37
I think you just went full retard.

I corrected you on a point by point basis, and your only response is "lolretard"

Whatever you paid to get rid of your scammer tag was too much.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:36:38 PM
#36
looks like you are calling ME. scammer because you don't know the forum rules.  my offer stand.  pm me if interested.

I'm not calling anybody a scammer, except mathew N, Wright, who is quite obviously a scammer(but lol it was a joke k guise?). I am simply saying this is my offer, standing until i say otherwise, as of april 19, 11:38PM, 2013. I don't need 300 people popping in saying "i bid 11 cents" when they won't be there the moment somebody needs to sell.
full member
Activity: 148
Merit: 102
April 19, 2013, 10:34:34 PM
#35
He has every right to make this offer, we all have now just placed our opinions that it is a terrible offer, the best thing is to probably just let it be what it is. People can take it or leave it.

I personally think it is the wrong place for it, but whatever, I'm not a mod.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
April 19, 2013, 10:33:41 PM
#34
I think you just went full retard.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:32:13 PM
#33
I guess the alternative would be just to post my passport, and assume people will ignore my most recent scam
What scam did you commit recently? I've never scammed nor stolen from anyone. I am pretty well known for pulling giant pranks at the expense of others though (something I have no interest in doing anymore).
Oh, so only the last 3 months count? betting somebody, reneging when you lose, and becoming militant if you win is just a prank now?

still dodging responsibilities and still never facing consequences.
You might want to click the link in my signature. Or if this comment was specifically about the bet and you're not thinking people were being paid for it, this thread might be more to the point.
[/quote]
Oh, suddenly a large gambling win and high exchange rate can turn a scammer into an honest person.

What fucking legitimacy do you have?
I wasn't aware this thread was about me, but since you ask, despite co-founding Bitcoin Magazine, DialCoin, the largest business incubator group in Bitcoin, and paying off every loan or bad investment I've made despite personal risks and discomfort, I don't have much "legitimacy" to give opinions on BFL because my expertise is not in ASIC development. My expertise is more in the area of human behavior, specifically people trying to take advantage of other people and misrepresenting themselves, which I feel the sockpuppet offer for 10% of BFL's current 100% refund is.
You are making this thread about you, you make every thread about you. You are a sociopath, it's what you do.

had you won your bet, what lengths would you have gone to to ensure you were paid?
The bet was a prank both for attention (which I got) and to prove a point about people being far too trusting. I had already discussed what I would do if I won (give everything back) or lost (give one of 5 previously created excuses). None of this is relevant though, because the bet in itself was insanely reckless and poorly thought out. I hadn't considered that it would affect people's lives so horribly, and it moved me to take responsibility for it, regardless of how hard that was.
No, the bet was a hedge against your personal investment in pirateat40's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam. This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam. I have positioned myself as such that nobody i do business with will have been wronged. They will achieve their best possible outcome, i will achieve my best possible outcome.

You quite possibly drove pirate investors to suicide, and benefited from it. I am more interested in saving people from it, while still being able to benefit, even if that benefit is breaking even.
I remain semi-anonymous for my own personal safety, but even that has to be a step above known scammer.
Who's a known scammer? If that was a reference to me, what have I stolen?
A lost bet is a debt, ask any bookie, you stole over 10k.
[/quote]
A no risk offer to exchange money for investment. I don't think providing my social security number is needed for this transaction.
No risk? 90% risk it seems. Also, for the record my bet was also "no risk" because it was designed to not require escrow.[/quote]

My offer is to those who are unable to achieve a 100% refund from BFL.

Also, refering to this "record", how does avoiding security provided by escrow turn your bullshit bet into no risk? had your bet required escrow, had you been required to put up 1 btc for every btc bet, less people using your bet as a hedge against pirate losses would have lost everything they had. What i am offering is the exact opposite in every way of the bet you earned a scammer tag for.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:17:27 PM
#32
I will pay 30 cents on the dollar.  (your childish language is uncalled for)

Ok then, allow me to use more appropriate language.


This is neither the time nor the place to start an auction. Should somebody choose to auction off their order and/or debt with regaurds to butterfly labs and the delivery and/or failure to deliver their bitcoin mining products, feel free to out bid me there. This is not an auction. This is an offer to purchase debt owed to customers of butterfly labs with the intention of accumulating a sufficient amount to justify legal action.

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled. The cost for retainer for a lawyer capable of recovering my investment in butterfly labs in the countries in which their officers live/claim to live is larger than my current investment in butterfly labs, but still more than i would care to lose to what is obviously fraud.

Jesus christ, only on BCT could somebody prepared to pay for something be called out as a scammer by somebody who is completely deserving of the tag.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
April 19, 2013, 10:16:52 PM
#31
I guess the alternative would be just to post my passport, and assume people will ignore my most recent scam
What scam did you commit recently? I've never scammed nor stolen from anyone. I am pretty well known for pulling giant pranks at the expense of others though (something I have no interest in doing anymore).

still dodging responsibilities and still never facing consequences.
You might want to click the link in my signature. Or if this comment was specifically about the bet and you're not thinking people were being paid for it, this thread might be more to the point.

What fucking legitimacy do you have?
I wasn't aware this thread was about me, but since you ask, despite co-founding Bitcoin Magazine, DialCoin, the largest business incubator group in Bitcoin, and paying off every loan or bad investment I've made despite personal risks and discomfort, I don't have much "legitimacy" to give opinions on BFL because my expertise is not in ASIC development. My expertise is more in the area of human behavior, specifically people trying to take advantage of other people and misrepresenting themselves, which I feel the sockpuppet offer for 10% of BFL's current 100% refund is. You can continue to try shifting the focus to your criticics' credibility, or you can start responding to actual concerns. Or you can just ignore us all and paste a giant ASCII middle finger. You are anonymous afterall.


A no risk offer to exchange money for investment. I don't think providing my social security number is needed for this transaction.
No risk? You're offering a loss of 90%, and a promise that the offer will be open when people actually need it. That sounds like a 90%~100% risk to me. As for this being "better" than a bet, don't forget that my bet was also "no risk" (and half the people already admitted they weren't planning on paying as they knew it was a prank).
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
April 19, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
#30
I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.

Guess what you can call BFL right now and get every single cent back that your order cost, isn't it great?

If you are the in the "BUT I WANT THE AMOUNT OF  BTC I PAID BACK RABBEL RABBEL RABBEL" crowd. guess what? That's not how shit works in the real world. In the real world you get back the value of your order, orders were always priced in USD, you get USD back simple.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
April 19, 2013, 10:05:15 PM
#29
Motives aside, I'm not sure how the OP can't lose money on this.

If he buys people's BFL "debt" now and BFL delivers, they're going to deliver to the people who ordered the units, not the OP.

If BFL gets to the point where they start refusing refunds, then it's unlikely they'll have any assets which can be recovered by unsecured creditors in a lawsuit.  I'm not even sure about how customers would go about legally assigning their interest in a "debt" which isn't yet due (it's not a debt until such time as a refund request isn't honoured).

What's to stop someone from selling their BFL debt to the OP now and getting a refund from BFL or taking delivery of their unit and making themselves and easy 10%?  BFL's under no obligation to honour any agreements made between their customers and third parties in respect of ASIC orders.

How is the OP even going to confirm that someone hasn't already cancelled their order and received a refund?  I seriously doubt BFL is going to share such information with the OP.

Without giving too much away with regards to my legal strategy, 4 people have made themselves and their personal assets liable by representing themselves as officers of the company in more than 1 country. I'm not opening myself up to scammers by purchasing their "word" that they're selling me their order. I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't make the offer, and won't issue payment without a means to recover my investment. I made that mistake with my initial BFL order, and won't make it again.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 19, 2013, 10:02:58 PM
#28
I will pay 30 cents on the dollar.  (your childish language is uncalled for)
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