Topic: Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed. - page 4. (Read 16045 times)

...
If I may show my little piece about BFL and display how much of a whinny prick customer I am they hate so much.
...

Skeeter:
Hello,

I just realized I placed an order and never did get to pay, I see my order # is 100015146. I have $200 in paypal atm, how can I pay? Or do I wait til our batch # is up?

BFL Brian:
We have changed our product line and the model that you have chosen will only be shipped if a paid preorder was placed before April 4th, 2013 is in our preorder queue.

We are not shipping ASICs yet as we are still testing the chips.  Prepayment is the only method by which your preorder is entered into the queue. We are working to start shipping in the next couple weeks and have a backlog in the queue, so new pre-orders, regardless of product or power consumption, will likely ship sometime in late July or early August, sooner if possible.

We ship in strict order of payment date with absolutely no way to move ahead in the queue.
 Thank you for your interest in Butterfly Labs, and our products.
 Brian

Skeeter:
Ok, so can I pay now still?

Even if I pay now then I basically am in the back of the line still, my interest early on does not give me any precedence? (I'm just wonder I won't bitch or complain).

BFL Brian:
Please visit the website and place your preorder.
Thank you, Brian

Skeeter:
It won't let me checkout, the cart is "empty"?

BFL Brian:
The previous products are no longer available for preorder.
 Please preorder the new models available now.
Thank you, Brian

Skeeter:
So order number #100015146 is no longer valid?

BFL Brian:
Do you have a payment transaction number or receipt?

Skeeter:
Are you asking if I have already payed? No I have not, I ordered and wanted to pay, I think the conversation chain is in the thread (email). I could not transfer funds quick enough, lost track of time with life and all and just never paid. When I log into my account under this email, I can see my order that I placed but never payed for.

                Recent Orders
                View All
                Order #    Date    Ship To    Order Total    Status    
                100015146    2/14/13    SkeeterSkeeter $163.00    Pending    View Order

So I placed the order just never got around to paying it. I cannot pay now? Must I now pay more?

BFL Brian:
This product is no longer available to preorder.
Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried.

Skeeter:
So can I not pay the price for when I placed the order, and be put at the end of the line?

I believed in you guys when you were semi-pro now that you've gone pro its like you just took my BFL trading card and ripped it in half. Broke my heart..

Who cares right, y'all filthy rich; if it ships.

Guess I'll just wait and see if it does ship, meantime put my $163 into btc and make a profit waiting for you to send it.

Brian:
Thank you,
We want to be here for you with healthy mining products for years to come.
 Brian

Skeeter:
Trollcity.

Me: I had a pre-order #xxx but didnt pay, can I pay now and be put in the back of the line
BFL: No, you have to place a new pre-order the product changed and costs more now, sorry we cannot honor your pre-order. That is why your cannot pay on the site. Seeing as I am a customer service rep, I have placed you a pre-order for your email and made a way for you to pay!

Me: I had a pre-order #xxx but didnt pay, can I pay now and be put in the back of the line
BFL: (gibberish about the product and how they can't put a IC on a PCB in the time they thought they could)
ME: So I cant pay
BFL: Yes you can just pay us on the site
Me: I cant
BFL: you have to preorder the item, then you can pay
Me: I do have a pre-order its #xxx, is it valid?
BFL: Did you pay
Me: Jesus christ, no. WTF do you think we are talking about?
BFL: Sucks, you should've paid before April 5th (we didnt tell you that, so we can make more $$ on people who still want the product but have not paid)
Me: fuckers

Really?  Please point it out?  Or are you lying about that?

They did. I have an invoice from BFL with a clearly stated price both in $ AND bitcoin!


They did. I've sent bitcoins to the bitcoin address they've pointed me to. I have a screenshot!


It is very different. Read something about credit card payment processing first and stop comparing apples to oranges!

If I pay $ and my credit card is run in SEK it is MY BANK (I've signed contract with when my cc was issued) that is converting the SEK in $ and IS sending $$. The TRANSACTION currency is $$. This is why refund is in $. While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoins. The refund must be in bitcoins.

BFL crooks usually say customers choose to pay through Bitpay. No! It is BFL that choose to accept customer' bitcoins through BitPay! BFL company is a customer of BitPay, not me. I don't have as a customer any contractual obligations or contractual relations with BitPay. For instance, can I pay BFL through the PayPal option, if BFL have such an option on their website, without being a PayPal customer? Of course, I can't!!! I paid the exact amount in bitcoins to the bitcoin address BFL specified on their invoice. It is BFL's choice to use BitPay's service to receive bitcoin payments from customers. BFL customers don't have any control on how BFL handle their bitcoin payments, how much bitcoins they convert in $, and how much they keep in bitcoin.

Quite important sub-point: One bit of the inner workings of BFL that I explicitly got permission to publish is that almost all bitcoins received via bitpay for preorders etc. are converted to USD by bitpay and deposited into BFL’s bank account. This is important because that account is a corporate account with per-user limits, multi-signature requirements and all the standard protections enforced by the bank that keep the CEO of any company from emptying the company’s bank account. The small fraction that remains denominated in bitcoin is only what they need to process refunds reasonably quickly. Almost all of BFL’s funds are secured against embezzlement the same way most companies’ funds are.

BFL is also painfully aware of the heavy delays customers experienced with their FGPA lineup and I’ve received great assurances – as well as more secretive evidence – that things are going to be different this time around. While I can’t share a lot of details I can say that many of the secret bits and pieces revolved around moving manufacturing processes that had been external previously into internal hands.

I'm asking you to back up your statements with evidence.  You are lacking said evidence while you're making statements that are not factual.  I am attempting to force you into providing said evidence to prove that you aren't making shit up.

_I_ know you're making shit up, but not everyone else does.  It's better if you make this clear to everyone than me just saying you're making shit up.  I notice that you still haven't provided any posts for any type of wager I have allegedly made, according to you.

Really?  Please point it out?  Or are you lying about that?

You're right that I have no direct evidence that customer funds were used, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. The best way to generate orders is to advertise that you have a product to ship "soon," all the while collecting more and more preorders and pushing the date back further. That gives you lots of (ever increasing) funds to work with while you are still designing the chip, PCBs, placing orders for same, etc. If these funds are in escrow somewhere until units begin shipping, then I applaud BFL for doing that. But if that's the case, I sure hope for your customers' sakes that your sources of investment capital have very deep pockets. It's tough to operate a company of your size for 8 months with ZERO income.

I take that back. Actually, you could use some of Luke's preorder money now, since you "shipped" him a "single" to your lab.


I believe you lied to customers about your "shipping soon" multiple times. I believe you were fully aware that you would NOT in fact be "shipping soon," and if you did believe it, well you are a bigger idiot than anyone you've been calling an idiot on this forum, and have no business being an officer of that company. Because of that lying (to customers and potential customers), that clearly also makes you a "dirt bag" and "piece of shit." Come to think of it, either way, you have no business being an officer of that company.

It's somewhere in this clusterfuck:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1713429

So did you or did you not ship a unit to Luke before April?

Unfortunately, your entire premise is false.  There is nothing "obvious" about BFL using customer perorders to fund R&D.  That's just a fantasy you've made up (or repeated, as the case may be) and there is no credible evidence to support this assertion.  You may wish it to be true and you may want to believe it to be true, but you are unable to produce any credible evidence to support your assertion, which essentially makes it false (since it is false), and the only credible source of information (whether you choose to accept it as credible or not is immaterial, since it's your ONLY source) states otherwise.

Really?  Can you point out where the hypocrisy is?  See, the problem is, you can't provide any evidence that I've done these things.  You may, again, want them to be true, but just because you want something so badly doesn't make them true.  The fact of the matter is, I have not lied or made up false information like Frankie here (or yourself, clearly)... and I can demonstrate that you have done so.  You are not able to do the same... there's a reason for that.  Frankie (and yourself) are lying, I am not.    If you disagree with this, please provide some evidence.  I've provided evidence that both you and Frankie are lying in this very post (and previous posts).  Your statement of "BFL is obviously using preorders for R & D" is an outright lie.  Frankie, we have already demonstrated his lying in great detail.

A) It's not a wager
B) The probability turned out to be zero, so even if it were a wager, it didn't happen.

So you perpetuated a lie.  Thanks for confirming proving my point.

...
I'm just saying that there's better way to spend your time than sitting here and bitch on everyone... like getting professional help perhaps, because you are truly mentally disturbed.
...

How exactly do you get from "You're and idiot because of X" to "Everyone is an idiot?"  Oh... it's because you're an idiot.  You can't seem to understand the difference between a the general and the specific.

Let me guess, you're an hunt and peck "typist" and it takes you 10 minutes to write each sentence, right?  That's why you think it takes me an inordinate amount of time to write a post, right?  But, do tell, what is it you think I could have spent my time doing since last October that I haven't already done and have been doing?  Do you seriously believe I should spend every waking moment of my life doing "something" (which is as of yet undefined) related to ASICs?  Is that the position you're taking?  Really?

Suuuure you won't.  I suspect you already are or will end up just like Frizz and Frankie.  Frothing at the mouth at how you hate BFL and you think they are a scam while handing over an order, because deep down you know your words are bullshit; You just can't bring yourself to admit that all your vocal sputum was nothing more than a whiny, self entitled verbal tantrum that you're too embarrassed to fess up to.

A) It's not a wager
B) The probability turned out to be zero, so even if it were a wager, it didn't happen.

So you perpetuated a lie.  Thanks for confirming proving my point.

Sure, why don't you quote some posts of mine on the subject.

How exactly do you get from "You're and idiot because of X" to "Everyone is an idiot?"  Oh... it's because you're an idiot.  You can't seem to understand the difference between a the general and the specific.


Let me guess, you're an hunt and peck "typist" and it takes you 10 minutes to write each sentence, right?  That's why you think it takes me an inordinate amount of time to write a post, right?  But, do tell, what is it you think I could have spent my time doing since last October that I haven't already done and have been doing?  Do you seriously believe I should spend every waking moment of my life doing "something" (which is as of yet undefined) related to ASICs?  Is that the position you're taking?  Really?


Suuuure you won't.  I suspect you already are or will end up just like Frizz and Frankie.  Frothing at the mouth at how you hate BFL and you think they are a scam while handing over an order, because deep down you know your words are bullshit; You just can't bring yourself to admit that all your vocal sputum was nothing more than a whiny, self entitled verbal tantrum that you're too embarrassed to fess up to.

Shall we talk about how you, *cough*, "shipped" that dev unit to Luke?

So you perpetuated a lie.