Can Chat GTP destroy poker on-line gambling??? - page 11.

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Quote from: danadc on August 05, 2023, 09:45:07 AM

Quote from: vv181 on August 05, 2023, 12:23:53 AM

Quote from: STT on August 03, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

~
So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

This is the issue I raised a few pages back. ChatGPT, Bard, or any other similar tools whereas the underlying system is a large language model (LLM) or generative pre-trained transformers (GPT) are incapable to solve this particular issue because of the architectural design of how this model is built. It is built for different use cases and purposes. The bot is just predicting the most probable scenario merely based on text input, not the whole game itself. Given that, it would be unlikely this kind of AI adapt fully to the game.

I still don't see it possible that a chatgpt or any robot can do something to win in a casino, I don't see it possible, I don't know much about programming, but if the internal programs of the games have their algorithms and can do the tasks, an AI cannot be putting an algorithm greater than that and predict what the game will launch, unless the AI gets into the game and can read the movements that the game is going to give, it is the only way it can be, I do it That's what I think, but that the AI may have the ability to predict Accurately , I don't think so, if an AI can hack the game , that is Possible , I don't think so.

Well, this has always been my opinion though, but not to say never completely, if Ai bots can be used in trading, and they have the capacity to win some trades, and they are also used in sports betting, and they are able to predict the outcome of some matches correctly, i think they can still be used on poker, and sure they would win some poker games, but not to destroy the game entirely, or hack the game as many assumed, that can never be possible, and i also think that the winning ratio of an Ai in a poker game might be high at the very beginning, but that is only at the beginning, their winning i believe can not be consistent enough to maintain a high winning ratio for a long time, in the long run, human players will still out perform Ai bots.

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Quote from: elevates on August 02, 2023, 01:29:18 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 01, 2023, 07:19:05 AM

I find it amazing that some people always think that some "evil and greedy house" will make itself earn even more with any new invention. Let's think about it, shall we? If the main goal for the house was taking as much money as possible from the customers each time they play, why would we have such a low house edge as 1% on some games? Why not like 20% instead? Why it's around 3% for online poker and not 30%? Maybe it's because you are not the only one providing a platform for playing poker games? Maybe because you have competitors, and people just can stop playing on your site?

Whatever AI can be used for in online poker, it's not for making the house earn more. That's what I'm sure of.

You have given the answer to your own question, why would we have such a low house edge as 1% on some games? Your answer, Maybe it's because you are not the only one providing a platform for playing poker games? Maybe because you have competitors, and people just can stop playing on your site? What is your question here? Is it me questioning the house ethics or Is it the house using AI for its own benefit? If you are asking the first one then I don't think any gambler should think that the house is running tha platform for charity they are here to run a business. They would do anything to increase their profitability. For the second question I would rather say that two industries (porn & gambling) are know to adopt new tech as soon as they are in the market. AI is out and in most probable case these online casinos have already adopted themselves to this new tech. It is only a matter of time someone would find out and then these platforms would confess in public.

P.S: The first actual use of OpenAI bot on an actual game was DOTA wherein thier bot OpenAI Five played against pro gamer.

Yep. I pretty much agree with everything you said. I just wanted to emphasize that it's not like a war between us gamblers and the house. Both parties can benefit from new inventions. It's like in the movie industry: they are making better quality films now compared to 40 years ago, but the process can be viewed as "they are doing everything to increase their profitability".

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Quote from: Bushdark on August 03, 2023, 05:15:07 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin_people on August 03, 2023, 03:41:15 AM

Although currently using ChatGPT can make some predictions and some of them are accurate but most of them are not. However, if ChatGPT could predict the casino platform with AI, then the online casinos would definitely be destroyed. If AI could make it so that a person placed a bet and a team would win, maybe people would use this GPT all the time. But if everything was possible by AI then this AI would be called world's smartest but it is never possible. And since the prediction of online casinos cannot be done by ChatGPT AI, the casinos will not end.

Maybe it can make predictions bsdef on some certain games but I don't think chatgbt will be able to make any predictions accurately. 1he it comes to sport bets where the outcome is not always based on the past games of a club and there past history. It will be difficult to predict the accurate result of a particular match that can have a different futuristic outcome.

This is why why gamblers do tend to make more profits in spoet bets even when they don't have a good past history of a particular club. Most to the results of sport bet is based on the agility and how active the players are to win the match. Luck too can come in to make the game different even though the opponent team are pressing harder.

Actually, the general idea is that the result of a sports match does basically depend on the results of their previous matches and that is exactly what a gambler checks before making their bet. They do their research and analyze the past results and performances of the team that has higher chances of winning and then they also check if the players that were playing well previously are playing today or not, and there are plenty of other things to see.

But, the general idea is to evaluate the results from the past and see the facts, stats, and figures and decide whether the team can win or not. So an AI model should basically be able to do that evaluation pretty easily if it has access to the data that can be used to analyze the past of a certain team.

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Quote from: serjent05 on August 05, 2023, 05:21:01 PM

Quote from: vv181 on August 05, 2023, 12:23:53 AM

Quote from: STT on August 03, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

~
So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

This is the issue I raised a few pages back. ChatGPT, Bard, or any other similar tools whereas the underlying system is a large language model (LLM) or generative pre-trained transformers (GPT) are incapable to solve this particular issue because of the architectural design of how this model is built. It is built for different use cases and purposes. The bot is just predicting the most probable scenario merely based on text input, not the whole game itself. Given that, it would be unlikely this kind of AI adapt fully to the game.

Speaking of google bard, it gives me a lot of non-sense answers when asked about sports. It is funny to the point that I am losing trust in the credibility of its answer. When confronted and states that the AI's information is not correct, the AI's only answer is that it is in an experimental stage and still learning...

So with that as an example, I do not think that AI is developed enough to compete against humans, especially in gambling like sports betting and poker.

Exactly, it is inherently not tied to Google's Bard but systematically it works as a kind of feedback loop where the user input is fetched to the AI system to train more and further. Given that, the AI itself is incapable to analyze the game fully since it is solely based on user input. They did not consider the actual game condition and cases in the result/output scenario. That is why I stated LLM(ChatGPT, Bard, etc) is not a perfect choice for poker gambling activity.

You might argue, the user input could enter complete and detailed information about the game condition, but I believe it wouldn't be pith-perfect due to the nature of their architectural goals.

In regard to actual implementation that is made specifically for poker games take a look at:

Quote from: vv181 on July 22, 2023, 06:11:20 AM

Something that I found in AI research that specialises in the poker problem is DeepStack(https://www.deepstack.ai/), it is able to compete with heads-up poker, although not perfectly, I saw this tool able to beat human players. If anyone knows other newer similar research for this case, it would be great to share since this one was made in 2016 and is only for heads-up poker.

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Quote from: vv181 on August 05, 2023, 12:23:53 AM

Quote from: STT on August 03, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

~
So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

This is the issue I raised a few pages back. ChatGPT, Bard, or any other similar tools whereas the underlying system is a large language model (LLM) or generative pre-trained transformers (GPT) are incapable to solve this particular issue because of the architectural design of how this model is built. It is built for different use cases and purposes. The bot is just predicting the most probable scenario merely based on text input, not the whole game itself. Given that, it would be unlikely this kind of AI adapt fully to the game.

Speaking of google bard, it gives me a lot of non-sense answers when asked about sports. It is funny to the point that I am losing trust in the credibility of its answer. When confronted and states that the AI's information is not correct, the AI's only answer is that it is in an experimental stage and still learning...

So with that as an example, I do not think that AI is developed enough to compete against humans, especially in gambling like sports betting and poker.

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Quote from: danadc on August 05, 2023, 09:45:07 AM

Quote from: vv181 on August 05, 2023, 12:23:53 AM

~snip~

I still don't see it possible that a chatgpt or any robot can do something to win in a casino, I don't see it possible, I don't know much about programming, but if the internal programs of the games have their algorithms and can do the tasks, an AI cannot be putting an algorithm greater than that and predict what the game will launch, unless the AI gets into the game and can read the movements that the game is going to give, it is the only way it can be, I do it That's what I think, but that the AI may have the ability to predict Accurately , I don't think so, if an AI can hack the game , that is Possible , I don't think so.

So you dont believe that AI can win in gambling, right? Yeah, I dunno, dunno what to say. In the same way that casinos use complex algorithms, artificial intelligence uses... algorithms? However, how large can an algorithm get? Cant the AI just beat the casino at its own game if it uses greater algorithms? Putting glasses on AI's algorithm might help it read.

I agree that AI has no chance of hacking, as doing so is, what, bad? Is it still AI if it makes horrible decisions? But what if the AI believes it is playing a game when in fact it is a casino, and the casino believes it is a game when in fact it is a casino? So, who emerges victorious? Perhaps they could get along if they pretended to be someone else?

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Quote from: vv181 on August 05, 2023, 12:23:53 AM

Quote from: STT on August 03, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

~
So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

This is the issue I raised a few pages back. ChatGPT, Bard, or any other similar tools whereas the underlying system is a large language model (LLM) or generative pre-trained transformers (GPT) are incapable to solve this particular issue because of the architectural design of how this model is built. It is built for different use cases and purposes. The bot is just predicting the most probable scenario merely based on text input, not the whole game itself. Given that, it would be unlikely this kind of AI adapt fully to the game.

I still don't see it possible that a chatgpt or any robot can do something to win in a casino, I don't see it possible, I don't know much about programming, but if the internal programs of the games have their algorithms and can do the tasks, an AI cannot be putting an algorithm greater than that and predict what the game will launch, unless the AI gets into the game and can read the movements that the game is going to give, it is the only way it can be, I do it That's what I think, but that the AI may have the ability to predict Accurately , I don't think so, if an AI can hack the game , that is Possible , I don't think so.

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Quote from: Fredomago on August 04, 2023, 04:07:26 PM

Quote from: maydna on August 04, 2023, 05:31:10 AM

~snip~

Which I doubt that casino will allow that kind of advantages, and same with how the gamblers seek for such advantage casino will also look for that same system to counter whatever the kind of edge gamblers may have casino will update their system and not allow that they will be left behind in terms of technological advantages.

Though, in terms of individual actions like live poker games between players, bluff still the best edge of experience gamblers, as they can push their opponents to believe whatever they are trying to lead the game and win the session.

Casinos won't allow it because it could cost the casino a loss. And as long as these methods can negatively impact the casino, the casino will ban them and penalize players who use them and may also block them. And casinos will also update their systems to be able to detect the methods that gamblers will use.

Maybe poker players should be able to rely on their bluffing techniques well so they don't need to use other methods. This is also so they don't get into trouble at the casino and can play poker comfortably.

vv181

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Quote from: STT on August 03, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

~
So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

This is the issue I raised a few pages back. ChatGPT, Bard, or any other similar tools whereas the underlying system is a large language model (LLM) or generative pre-trained transformers (GPT) are incapable to solve this particular issue because of the architectural design of how this model is built. It is built for different use cases and purposes. The bot is just predicting the most probable scenario merely based on text input, not the whole game itself. Given that, it would be unlikely this kind of AI adapt fully to the game.

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Quote from: GxSTxV on August 04, 2023, 05:34:01 PM

Quote from: paxmao on April 21, 2023, 03:30:35 AM

Reading another post, it crossed my mind that AIs and particularly ChatGPT could potentially be trained with a large samples of games played by poker champions and then put it to auto-play with amateur on-line players. If this is successful, it could mean the end of human on-line poker playing except perhaps for the world masters and the like. Has anyone tried? Would it be possible??

I think it is true that AI and bots have been used in poker for some time before 2015 as i have seen it before the AI trending lately. There have been research projects i think and computer programs developed to compete against professional poker players and win.

Is it possible that the AI competing against that person has access on thes ystem? I tried to play using an AI but all it does is just keep a suggestion and mostly offers to fold when holding a certain kind of cards with conditions to follow. Competing with an AI that has no access on the system but only rely on the given deck on hand and card on the table would be having a difficulty to beat a professional player that is what I am thinking, unless that AI has access to the poker game system.

Quote from: GxSTxV on August 04, 2023, 05:34:01 PM

AI has the potential to solve and create effective strategies for poker game especially in games like Hold'em which I’m familiar with since also it require a mix of intelligence, skill, and some math. But still achieving 100% accuracy or even consistently winning more than 80% of the time is not possible imo due to the complexity and rules of the game.
Even with AI assistanc there's always an amount of risk in poker. Folding certain hands can lead to losing money but it's a strategic decision to minimize losses also and maximize winnings in the long run if the bot is programmed like that. Skilled player, whether human understand that poker involves managing risks and making calculated decisions based on probabilities and opponent behavior and read faces. While AI can be a powerful tool it is not a guaranteed way to win at poker all the time.

There will always be a huge room for error since the variable in poker games is too huge since AI often fold when they got a certain bad combination in their deck.

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Quote from: paxmao on April 21, 2023, 03:30:35 AM

Reading another post, it crossed my mind that AIs and particularly ChatGPT could potentially be trained with a large samples of games played by poker champions and then put it to auto-play with amateur on-line players. If this is successful, it could mean the end of human on-line poker playing except perhaps for the world masters and the like. Has anyone tried? Would it be possible??

I think it is true that AI and bots have been used in poker for some time before 2015 as i have seen it before the AI trending lately. There have been research projects i think and computer programs developed to compete against professional poker players and win.
AI has the potential to solve and create effective strategies for poker game especially in games like Hold'em which I’m familiar with since also it require a mix of intelligence, skill, and some math. But still achieving 100% accuracy or even consistently winning more than 80% of the time is not possible imo due to the complexity and rules of the game.
Even with AI assistanc there's always an amount of risk in poker. Folding certain hands can lead to losing money but it's a strategic decision to minimize losses also and maximize winnings in the long run if the bot is programmed like that. Skilled player, whether human understand that poker involves managing risks and making calculated decisions based on probabilities and opponent behavior and read faces. While AI can be a powerful tool it is not a guaranteed way to win at poker all the time.

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Quote from: maydna on August 04, 2023, 05:31:10 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on August 03, 2023, 05:19:22 PM

Quote from: maydna on August 03, 2023, 05:23:16 AM

~snip~

Casino will continue but also will adjust and do their best to make sure that there's no advantage that may happen, maybe we will see updates if ever that gamblers starts to use AI system, or possible that casino will ban if they see the big advantage of players who are using it, I like to follow the idea that in terms of mathematically calculation maybe AI have an advantage but with bluffing which is commonly being used by most experienced poker players, still have that edge unless AI will also learn it which I'm not sure if it's doable, correct me if I'm wrong, but bluffing is a skill that continuous being change, as per my opinion.

Updates from each casino will be carried out, considering that technological developments have reached this stage. And if the casino does not update, it is feared that the casino will not be able to survive amid technological advances, and the casino will lose its members and may even go bankrupt. And it seems that if technology is more advanced than it is now, maybe we will meet a thinking AI that can find every way out of a gambling game so that they have the potential to win. But it is true what you said that bluffing is a skill that is constantly changing, and even we are also trying to have better bluffing skills than before.

Which I doubt that casino will allow that kind of advantages, and same with how the gamblers seek for such advantage casino will also look for that same system to counter whatever the kind of edge gamblers may have casino will update their system and not allow that they will be left behind in terms of technological advantages.

Though, in terms of individual actions like live poker games between players, bluff still the best edge of experience gamblers, as they can push their opponents to believe whatever they are trying to lead the game and win the session.

maydna

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Quote from: Fredomago on August 03, 2023, 05:19:22 PM

Quote from: maydna on August 03, 2023, 05:23:16 AM

~snip~

Casino will continue but also will adjust and do their best to make sure that there's no advantage that may happen, maybe we will see updates if ever that gamblers starts to use AI system, or possible that casino will ban if they see the big advantage of players who are using it, I like to follow the idea that in terms of mathematically calculation maybe AI have an advantage but with bluffing which is commonly being used by most experienced poker players, still have that edge unless AI will also learn it which I'm not sure if it's doable, correct me if I'm wrong, but bluffing is a skill that continuous being change, as per my opinion.

Updates from each casino will be carried out, considering that technological developments have reached this stage. And if the casino does not update, it is feared that the casino will not be able to survive amid technological advances, and the casino will lose its members and may even go bankrupt. And it seems that if technology is more advanced than it is now, maybe we will meet a thinking AI that can find every way out of a gambling game so that they have the potential to win. But it is true what you said that bluffing is a skill that is constantly changing, and even we are also trying to have better bluffing skills than before.

STT

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I had a bad outcome with 2 pocket aces recently and thought thats a simple enough question to ask the bot. There is no right answer, I think we all know that but what it replied was fair advice I guess. I dont see this as disrupting the game, people already can be advised and learn from examples etc.

Quote

The real change overall that would tilt the world with the difference it could make is utility through ease of use. So the bot giving me quoted text, its not revolutionary but if the bot is somehow intelligently integrated, available & immediate with my actions or prospective actions with statistical odds given for each scenario then sure we can start to say AI is significant in its potential interference. Even after all that I can lose, its not a game breaker.

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Quote from: maydna on August 03, 2023, 05:23:16 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin_people on August 03, 2023, 03:41:15 AM

Although currently using ChatGPT can make some predictions and some of them are accurate but most of them are not. However, if ChatGPT could predict the casino platform with AI, then the online casinos would definitely be destroyed. If AI could make it so that a person placed a bet and a team would win, maybe people would use this GPT all the time. But if everything was possible by AI then this AI would be called world's smartest but it is never possible. And since the prediction of online casinos cannot be done by ChatGPT AI, the casinos will not end.

The casino will anticipate this by banning ChatGPT or something else. We may not yet know what the casinos will do regarding this ChatGPT as developments continue to find the most suitable one. And even though this ChatGPT development could be more popular, not all gamblers will use it because some don't like ChatGPT and prefer to analyze each match with their own abilities. Online casinos will continue to run even though AI is coming to help gamblers win gambling games.

Casino will continue but also will adjust and do their best to make sure that there's no advantage that may happen, maybe we will see updates if ever that gamblers starts to use AI system, or possible that casino will ban if they see the big advantage of players who are using it, I like to follow the idea that in terms of mathematically calculation maybe AI have an advantage but with bluffing which is commonly being used by most experienced poker players, still have that edge unless AI will also learn it which I'm not sure if it's doable, correct me if I'm wrong, but bluffing is a skill that continuous being change, as per my opinion.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_people on August 03, 2023, 03:41:15 AM

Although currently using ChatGPT can make some predictions and some of them are accurate but most of them are not. However, if ChatGPT could predict the casino platform with AI, then the online casinos would definitely be destroyed. If AI could make it so that a person placed a bet and a team would win, maybe people would use this GPT all the time. But if everything was possible by AI then this AI would be called world's smartest but it is never possible. And since the prediction of online casinos cannot be done by ChatGPT AI, the casinos will not end.

Maybe it can make predictions bsdef on some certain games but I don't think chatgbt will be able to make any predictions accurately. 1he it comes to sport bets where the outcome is not always based on the past games of a club and there past history. It will be difficult to predict the accurate result of a particular match that can have a different futuristic outcome.

This is why why gamblers do tend to make more profits in spoet bets even when they don't have a good past history of a particular club. Most to the results of sport bet is based on the agility and how active the players are to win the match. Luck too can come in to make the game different even though the opponent team are pressing harder.

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Quote from: SamReomo on August 01, 2023, 03:58:39 PM

Quote from: mak013 on July 27, 2023, 01:56:49 AM

Quote from: abel1337 on July 26, 2023, 10:26:59 AM

Quote from: mak013 on July 26, 2023, 08:45:58 AM

We can believe that the player is more clever than AI but not often the common human can win chess computer. The same situation will be in the poker. Top players can change their style of gaming very fast, they count cards, etc. But the common gambler will lose the AI. If the gambler will use AI, the casino will do the same.

Professional, top and world class player are on a different league since they master their skills for years. Imagine how rapid AI can grow in todays standard, one day there's a chance that they can catch up to those who are master of poker. There are so called self-learning AI and I'm imagining that if it is trained by a professional player, it can beat majority of it's opponent on poker, luck aside.

The only thing that the human can`t teach the AI is imagination i think. The AI can be trained by world class player, it will know all about poker but anyway it works how it was trained. All it`s unusual bets were programmed. It can beat any common player i think, but it can`t win serious tournament.

That's not the only thing that humans can't teach AI in fact there are many such things which humans won't be able to teach AI anytime. Out of those things I believe one is emotions, the emotions are integral part of a humans life and no body can teach those emotions to a robot because they are basically something that's mostly for living things not for non-living things like AI. Humans also can't teach AI about feelings of others because AI can't feel anything as they have nothing similar to humans.

It is true, but i can`t say that feelings and emotions can help to win in poker tournament. Every player has emotions and his style of playing depends on emotions, but it`s true for the common gambler. When we are talking about serious tournaments and professional players - they don`t use emotions in the game - only maths and bluff. The AI at least equal to the hyman in maths. The only chance to win for human is bluff.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_people on August 03, 2023, 03:41:15 AM

Although currently using ChatGPT can make some predictions and some of them are accurate but most of them are not. However, if ChatGPT could predict the casino platform with AI, then the online casinos would definitely be destroyed. If AI could make it so that a person placed a bet and a team would win, maybe people would use this GPT all the time. But if everything was possible by AI then this AI would be called world's smartest but it is never possible. And since the prediction of online casinos cannot be done by ChatGPT AI, the casinos will not end.

The casino will anticipate this by banning ChatGPT or something else. We may not yet know what the casinos will do regarding this ChatGPT as developments continue to find the most suitable one. And even though this ChatGPT development could be more popular, not all gamblers will use it because some don't like ChatGPT and prefer to analyze each match with their own abilities. Online casinos will continue to run even though AI is coming to help gamblers win gambling games.

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Although currently using ChatGPT can make some predictions and some of them are accurate but most of them are not. However, if ChatGPT could predict the casino platform with AI, then the online casinos would definitely be destroyed. If AI could make it so that a person placed a bet and a team would win, maybe people would use this GPT all the time. But if everything was possible by AI then this AI would be called world's smartest but it is never possible. And since the prediction of online casinos cannot be done by ChatGPT AI, the casinos will not end.

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Quote from: tusandii on August 02, 2023, 02:14:18 AM

In developing technology and improving casino work systems, I believe the team has a far superior advantage in front of gamblers so that any gambler's efforts to be able to win in every game must have been anticipated by the team that works to operate gambling sites.
Only those fools who believe using AI can actually beat the casino or house edge.
The awareness that casinos have developed far ahead of us must always be kept in mind so that there is no desire or exaggeration of AI as the most sophisticated strategy that can help to win in a casino game.

AI may be smart enough because it can provide a lot of information needed, but in a casino game, the game system is regulated so that it is impossible for AI to guess or provide information about the course of the game.

These casino's won't let AI to dominate the gambling industry in the first place. For sure these online websites and even physical casinos have their terms of service as well as protocols to be followed so that players won't have the chance to abuse the system and the existing technological advancements. In terms of online casinos, probably the tech devs are monitoring strictly the activities of the players and are flagging those accounts that are suspicious. Additionally, it's most likely that they have a system that detects the third party application if there is any that aims to make the game in favor to the player using any AI.

Indeed, AI is smart enough to make things fast and convenient nowadays but it still has its limitations. It has ethical considerations to abide as well, especially chatgpt that is the main AI mentioned here in this thread.

Topic: Can Chat GTP destroy poker on-line gambling??? - page 11. (Read 5048 times)