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Topic: Can you answer a couple of questions to a potential bitcoin buyer? - page 2. (Read 1704 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Why stop there? We could destroy an entire planet, or even an entire solar system... That should stop it, right?
It'd destroy the implementation, yeah, but not the idea. Ideas are bulletproof.

Now, @Antithesis, I answered your questions, even though you weren't a potential Bitcoin buyer in the first place. You denied all of my answers 'cause you think they're irrational. Unfortunately, your mind was set before you submit this. So I guess, we'll have to agree we disagree.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
As I said, it cannot be a truism if it cannot be proven. You failed to do it. Which is actually surprising, since true truisms shouldn't be hard to prove, right?

Yes, but I am not going to do so.

Yeah... I didn't think you would. So much for an argumentative discussion with you. If I remember correctly, we already did this dance a few years ago?

If you set up something, you can shut it down.
If you kill every person on Earth? Yeah, it'll sooner or later stop working.

Why stop there? We could destroy an entire planet, or even an entire solar system... That should stop it, right?

If you want to discuss that water is wet and the sky is blue you should find someone else.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 2588
Top Crypto Casino
As I said, it cannot be a truism if it cannot be proven. You failed to do it. Which is actually surprising, since true truisms shouldn't be hard to prove, right?

Yes, but I am not going to do so.

Yeah... I didn't think you would. So much for an argumentative discussion with you. If I remember correctly, we already did this dance a few years ago?

If you set up something, you can shut it down.
If you kill every person on Earth? Yeah, it'll sooner or later stop working.

Why stop there? We could destroy an entire planet, or even an entire solar system... That should stop it, right?
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
So? Your record by which you own nothing is not managed by an individual.
Again, I do own units of a system we, as individuals, evaluate, because we've accepted it as a currency. It's not like money of monopoly.

If you set up something, you can shut it down.
If you kill every person on Earth? Yeah, it'll sooner or later stop working.
You own nothing. You hold a number. That's why you need someone to enter the system, you need a new investor to transfer you the ownership of something. Without that all you can do is play an internet game with your community of holders where you send each other numbers. It's a digital game of a primitive, boring monopoly.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.

That's not a premise in an argument but a generic, true statement that needs no proof.

You seem to be dodging the simple question. That's slightly to be expected isn't it?
A premise that cannot be proven as true cannot be a true statement. You commit a classic logical fallacy.

Like I've said, it's not a premise. It's truism. If you set up something, you can shut it down. There's nothing to argue about.

As I said, it cannot be a truism if it cannot be proven. You failed to do it. Which is actually surprising, since true truisms shouldn't be hard to prove, right?

Yes, but I am not going to do so.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
So? Your record by which you own nothing is not managed by an individual.
Again, I do own units of a system we, as individuals, evaluate, because we've accepted it as a currency. It's not like money of monopoly.

If you set up something, you can shut it down.
If you kill every person on Earth? Yeah, it'll sooner or later stop working.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 2588
Top Crypto Casino
And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.

That's not a premise in an argument but a generic, true statement that needs no proof.

You seem to be dodging the simple question. That's slightly to be expected isn't it?
A premise that cannot be proven as true cannot be a true statement. You commit a classic logical fallacy.

Like I've said, it's not a premise. It's truism. If you set up something, you can shut it down. There's nothing to argue about.

As I said, it cannot be a truism if it cannot be proven. You failed to do it. Which is actually surprising, since true truisms shouldn't be hard to prove, right?
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.

That's not a premise in an argument but a generic, true statement that needs no proof.

You seem to be dodging the simple question. That's slightly to be expected isn't it?
A premise that cannot be proven as true cannot be a true statement. You commit a classic logical fallacy.

Like I've said, it's not a premise. It's a truism. If you set up something, you can shut it down. There's nothing to argue about.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 2588
Top Crypto Casino
And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.

That's not a premise in an argument but a generic, true statement that needs no proof.

You seem to be dodging the simple question. That's slightly to be expected isn't it?
A premise that cannot be proven as true cannot be a true statement. You commit a classic logical fallacy.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
All systems that manage ownership have people and thus, all such systems can be corrupted and pose a threat to someone's ownership.
Great, Bitcoin isn't managed by an individual, that's all I'm saying.

In bitcoin system there's no ownership.
There is, the bitcoins.

So, there's nothing to be managed by the people and there's nothing that can be under a threat.
This is a false conclusion. Just because it isn't managed by individuals doesn't mean it can't be under a threat and oppositely.

Bitcoin is monopoly money simply because, the same as in the game of monopoly, by holding 'money' you own nothing.
I know that, down there, you know you're spitting nonsense.
So? Your record by which you own nothing is not managed by an individual. Point? Bitcoins are indeed ownership, but ownership of nothing. Just like money in the game of monopoly. You know, down there, I am stating facts.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
All systems that manage ownership have people and thus, all such systems can be corrupted and pose a threat to someone's ownership.
Great, Bitcoin isn't managed by an individual, that's all I'm saying.

In bitcoin system there's no ownership.
There is, the bitcoins.

So, there's nothing to be managed by the people and there's nothing that can be under a threat.
This is a false conclusion. Just because it isn't managed by individuals doesn't mean it can't be under a threat and oppositely.

Bitcoin is monopoly money simply because, the same as in the game of monopoly, by holding 'money' you own nothing.
I know that, down there, you know you're spitting nonsense.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
<...>
If today the whole bitcoin system is shut down, nobody's ownership would be lost.

That's a pretty big IF. How exactly would someone go about doing that? Can you describe that fictional scenario in more detail?

Anything that you set up can be shut down. For whatever reason. It's not like bitcoin system is a deity.

And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.

That's not a premise in an argument but a generic, true statement that needs no proof.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 2588
Top Crypto Casino
<...>
If today the whole bitcoin system is shut down, nobody's ownership would be lost.

That's a pretty big IF. How exactly would someone go about doing that? Can you describe that fictional scenario in more detail?

Anything that you set up can be shut down. For whatever reason. It's not like bitcoin system is a deity.

And how would you go about doing that? As you introduced this premise, you should know how to answer such a simple question.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
That's pretty naive way of looking at things. It's not fiat monetary system that is a problem, but government.
But, you can't deny that the government must be involved. The system requires a central point of failure to work. It's designed to be corrupted at some point in the future. You're the one who sounds naive; if it's a theory that doesn't work in practice, it's a wrong theory.

But, you cannot solve this problem with monopoly money like bitcoin.
Read what you're typing. Bitcoin, monopoly money? Then what's fiat that is exclusively possessed by the central banks? Also, you pretty much can. Bitcoin discriminates money and state. It promotes free trade and censorship-resistance.

That's a pretty big IF.
Indeed. Bitcoin can't disappear currently, it's a science fiction scenario.

Anything that you set up can be shut down.
You don't understand how things work. Become disciplined and learn.
People are corrupted. All systems that manage ownership have people and thus, all such systems can be corrupted and pose a threat to someone's ownership. Welcome to the real world.

In bitcoin system there's no ownership. So, there's nothing to be managed by the people and there's nothing that can be under a threat.

Bitcoin is monopoly money simply because, the same as in the game of monopoly, by holding 'money' you own nothing. This is unlike in the world of grown-ups where by holding dollars, a deed, or a certificate of title you own debt, a building or a car.

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
That's pretty naive way of looking at things. It's not fiat monetary system that is a problem, but government.
But, you can't deny that the government must be involved. The system requires a central point of failure to work. It's designed to be corrupted at some point in the future. You're the one who sounds naive; if it's a theory that doesn't work in practice, it's a wrong theory.

But, you cannot solve this problem with monopoly money like bitcoin.
Read what you're typing. Bitcoin, monopoly money? Then what's fiat that is exclusively possessed by the central banks? Also, you pretty much can. Bitcoin discriminates money and state. It promotes free trade and censorship-resistance.

That's a pretty big IF.
Indeed. Bitcoin can't disappear currently, it's a science fiction scenario.

Anything that you set up can be shut down.
You don't understand how things work. Become disciplined and learn.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
<...>
If today the whole bitcoin system is shut down, nobody's ownership would be lost.

That's a pretty big IF. How exactly would someone go about doing that? Can you describe that fictional scenario in more detail?

Anything that you set up can be shut down. For whatever reason. It's not like bitcoin system is a deity.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 2588
Top Crypto Casino
<...>
If today the whole bitcoin system is shut down, nobody's ownership would be lost.

That's a pretty big IF. How exactly would someone go about doing that? Can you describe that fictional scenario in more detail?
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
We are talking about business here, not social oppression and conspiracy theories.
Actually, the entire banking system, the way it currently works, is a conspiracy to humanity. It's not a business when one entity decides how's money gonna work. That's reign. Prior 1971, the gold standard was followed and every bank was following specific rules such as one note corresponded to a fixed amount of gold etc.

But, at the moment, this is really not the case. A government appears to have exceedingly much power to the economy of the society. The output of employment and inflation is down to their hands. When the state is inextricably linked with money, then the economy follows their behavior.

This is when some free market minds awoke.
That's pretty naive way of looking at things. It's not fiat monetary system that is a problem, but government. Government is the problem. It has monopoly on coercion. A corrupt government can destroy everything. In communism people were coerced out of their ownership on mere government fiat. Governments can do whatever they want because they have power.

But, you cannot solve this problem with monopoly money like bitcoin. Botcoin is just holding numbers and owning nothing. A modern ponzi like redistribution scheme. If you own nothing, there's nothing to be destroyed or taken away from you. If today the whole bitcoin system is shut down, nobody's ownership would be lost. Because by holding bitcoin people have the ownership of nothing. They gave up their ownership when entering the bitcoin scheme.

The only way to solve the problem is by keeping governments small and in check.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
We are talking about business here, not social oppression and conspiracy theories.
Actually, the entire banking system, the way it currently works, is a conspiracy to humanity. It's not a business when one entity decides how's money gonna work. That's reign. Prior 1971, the gold standard was followed and every bank was following specific rules such as one note corresponded to a fixed amount of gold etc.

But, at the moment, this is really not the case. The government appears to have exceedingly much power to the economy of the society. The output of employment and inflation is down to their hands. When the state is inextricably linked with money, then the economy follows their behavior.

This is when some free market minds awoke.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1

Fiat money has purpose of settling debt to the banks given that all fiat is someone's loan. All paper fiat is debt owed to central banks by the commercial banks All digital fiat is debt owed to commercial banks  by individuals and companies. In the same time, all paper fiat is debt owed to holders by the central banks. And all digital fiat is debt owed to holders by commercial banks. If you don't believe me, check the accounting books of the commercial and central banks. So, fiat holders are debt owners. Their ownership is valuable because it has the ability to redeem the debt of the banks, individuals and companies.

Translation
"Tools of subjugation and oppression are valuable to those in power.  Everyone should be grateful for the opportunity to march to the beat of the Bankster's drums.  It's downright unconscionable that any of you should want to adopt a system which cannot be used to control the masses in the same way fiat can."   Roll Eyes

If that's your idea of "value", you can keep it, thanks. 

Also, have you now abandoned all effort to maintain the pretense that you're interested in purchasing Bitcoin?  I get the sense that you're possibly not a fan of personal freedom and would happily attempt to talk people out of choosing it wherever you might be able to.  Fortunately, you're not very convincing.
We are talking about business here, not social oppression and conspiracy theories. In that sense, sure, I will keep my ownership of valuable resource that can be used for redeeming debt of individuals, companies and banks. This resource ensures that as long there's debt, these entities will trade me the things I can live off of. And that's not oppression. That's business. I am oppressing no one. It's not me who's responsible for someone's debt. I only invested in it.

You, on the other hand, are free to live in faith that someone will voluntarily give you things you can live off of for the number that you hold. But, that's nor business. That's utopia.

What happened, Antithesis? Do we now choose whose mouth we want to shut? You respond only to what's interesting you, in this case franky, who, as always, keeps writing walls of text until he's proved right. Consider re-checking these:
And what did people do before the introduction of such system? Weren't they developing mediums of exchange?
So we're just glossing over the part where it's not actually possible for everyone to repay their loans?

[...]
The translation takes the cake.
I tend to ignore off topic stuff.
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