China's strategy on the Ukraine invasion war

carlfebz2

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Quote from: STT on March 21, 2022, 04:16:01 PM

The main link from China to Russia is both are prepared to treat their own people badly to continue the bias towards the most powerful people at the time. They share a common interest more then any great friendship, they can and will trade on that basis even if the rest of the world were to block them though China has no intention to also receive sanctions in the same way.

Even China would be having those sanctions but still their economy could really withstood on that particular situation considering that they are one of the biggest and richest country or simply superpower

which means that they could really survive it out.Speaking with intentions and interest and similarity with Russian then its true and its not surprising that they would not really make any move against
and just like others been saying that they do have mutual benefits speaking with other aspects so China wont really be that a fool on going against.

STT

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The main link from China to Russia is both are prepared to treat their own people badly to continue the bias towards the most powerful people at the time. They share a common interest more then any great friendship, they can and will trade on that basis even if the rest of the world were to block them though China has no intention to also receive sanctions in the same way.

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Quote from: Pomogator on March 20, 2022, 06:05:43 AM

China is more inclined towards Russia, it understands that during the sanctions and isolation of the entire developed world from Russia, it is in an advantageous position. Russia will trade mainly with China. All brands and companies that leave Russia will change to Chinese ones. China understands all this, so now it is no longer so neutral.
I do not believe in pity and help to Russia, only economic benefits to China, nothing more.

We think that Russia is lucky but nope. If there's one of them that is lucky, that is going to be china because it will get most of the benefits but that if china is allowed to export and import goods from other countries but what if china is also blocked just like Russia? Since, everyone knows that there is a special connection between china and Russia. Russia is a strong country but china is the wisest among all.

We have seen in the past how china lead the world when it comes to supplying basic necessities. That was the time when covid pandemic hit, to be specific but now that there are now wars that happen. China is at it again to the rescue.

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Quote from: paxmao on February 24, 2022, 06:55:55 AM

How is China playing this?

a) Observing carefully as how the West is playing this crisis, how far they are willing to go when ~~China invades Taiwan~~ Russia invades Ukraine. How powerful is the response, how far is the West willing to go.

b) Keeping a distance from both sides, but not "the same distance" from both sides:

Quote

China criticized the Washington's response on Wednesday, saying the new US sanctions amounted to throwing "fuel on the fire" and were "irresponsible and immoral."

Quote

In a joint statement, Russia and China called on NATO to "ideologized approaches of the Cold War" and "respect the diversity of civilizational and cultural-historical patterns" in other countries.

As you can see, China is nothing but happy about this, as they are watching two potential enemies erode themselves and testing their strength. Lots of lessons will be learnt on the handling of this crisis and I would not say that Europe and Democracies are playing a great role in terms of intimidation, yet at least is managing to stay reasonably united.

The Chinese leadership have no particular plan, they will stand behind whichever side looks like it has the upper hand. They use Russia for it's commodities and oil but would invade Russia for it's land in a second if they thought they could neutralize their nukes - they'd be successful too judging by the awful use of it's army in Ukraine. China got rich off selling products to the west and needs to continue doing so for some time if it wants to rule the world as the foremost economic power. It's not quite ready yet to self sustain especially with many bubbles, like property, waiting to burst at the seams. China will likely keep their language as neutral as possible.

STT

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The only positive from this war is China might think twice about taking the extreme route of attacking Taiwan in some similar misguided idea their regime rules over all its neighbors. Like Hong Kong they have no respect for any special distinction Taiwan has being completely separate from China for so many decades, seems quite similar to how Russia thinks every former component of USSR is also only in existence so long as it feels like it.

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Quote from: freedomgo on March 20, 2022, 06:42:24 AM

China is satisfied with the response of US to the Ukraine Invasion by Russia, so it's not unlikely for China to also make its own move against Taiwan and do the same as what Russia is currently doing. The weak country will always lose the war and we know how far the US and European countries will respond to this kind of war.

They can't play the same weapon, they can just sanction a certain country but it would still not save the lives of the innocent people as that sanction will result in every playing its negative effect.

China doesn't really have the same power that Russia has. If you have energy sources, there is really not that many alternatives to it, at least not right now, any nation could become energy independent if they want to spend a lot of money right now, but it will take years before they reach there, so Russia is a big important place for west and yet they still put sanctions on them.

China on the other hand grew thanks to cheap labor, and they are charging more these days because they became better at it, "Chinese product" used to be mean shitty, nowadays they are building great stuff. But, starting a factor wouldn't cost too much to do in other nations. So if China attacks Taiwan and gets sanctioned, that would be much worse for them.

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China is satisfied with the response of US to the Ukraine Invasion by Russia, so it's not unlikely for China to also make its own move against Taiwan and do the same as what Russia is currently doing. The weak country will always lose the war and we know how far the US and European countries will respond to this kind of war.

They can't play the same weapon, they can just sanction a certain country but it would still not save the lives of the innocent people as that sanction will result in every playing its negative effect.

tyz

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Quote from: ?? on ??

China is the only neutral party for now, and this places it in a leadership position in seeking a solution to the conflict. China must rise to this leadership opportunity and Russia and the NATO allies must embrace China's leadership as the only solution to end this conflict that has the potential to consume the entire European continent and the west

Neutral? China is anything but neutral, although it looks that way. In the Chinese media, the little nonsense is spread like in Russia. In China, too, there is talk of a "special operation" instead of a war of aggression. China may look neutral, but indirectly it supports Russia through several ways because they have the same enemy: Democracies.

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China is the only neutral party for now, and this places it in a leadership position in seeking a solution to the conflict. China must rise to this leadership opportunity and Russia and the NATO allies must embrace China's leadership as the only solution to end this conflict that has the potential to consume the entire European continent and the west

I don't quite agree with you. China is more inclined towards Russia, it understands that during the sanctions and isolation of the entire developed world from Russia, it is in an advantageous position. Russia will trade mainly with China. All brands and companies that leave Russia will change to Chinese ones. China understands all this, so now it is no longer so neutral.
I do not believe in pity and help to Russia, only economic benefits to China, nothing more.

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Quote from: Argoo on March 14, 2022, 05:33:02 AM

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Quote from: Argoo on March 11, 2022, 05:39:11 AM

Quote from: merchantofzeny on March 10, 2022, 11:06:00 AM

I wonder if, despite the news about China refusing to sell Russia aircraft parts, that they'd still help secretly. If Russia loses this though or get heavily sanctioned, it is also to China's benefit since RUS would basically become a North Korea, cut off economically from the rest of the world and reduced to selling raw materials to China for cheap.

China will not secretly help Russia. The Chinese government will only do what is beneficial to it. And it is beneficial for China that Russia economically weakens and then there will be an opportunity to use its raw material base on the cheap. A weak Russia is sure to become a target for China in terms of its large territories. After all, China has long laid claim to a significant part of the territory of Siberia. Russia has introduced the rule of the strong into international politics and will itself suffer from it.

It depends on what type of help you are talking about. China won't help with weapons because Russia doesn't need that. Russia doesn't need technology either. What Russia needs right now is trade agreements. And that's the point of china helping Russia. China has a big economy and market. The same thing applies to India. If Russia convince China and India to trade with them despite the sanction from the west then Russia could hold its economy. Trading with China and India won't be that profitable like the West, but it will sustain Russia's economy from collapsing.

Russia is now very quickly becoming a pariah country and will be similar to North Korea in this respect. China will certainly take advantage of this situation and the weakening of Russia's position. They say that Russia has already turned to China for help in military equipment, but China is unlikely to do this, since it itself will be afraid of sanctions and, on the other hand, China is interested in weakening Russia's position in the international arena. Strong sanctions against Russia may deter China from attacking Taiwan. At the same time, Taiwan is now studying Ukraine's experience in a successful war against Russia in order to repel possible Chinese aggression.

It is a possible scenario where Russia emerges victorious from that invasion, CHINA will immediately act against Taiwan, because if it supports Russia right now, when it asks Russia for help, they will not hesitate, and that is when little by little9 things in the world will be able to change.

Both the USA and NATO are seeing and considering all these scenarios, so could we be seeing that these countries are losing power to the world? If you ask any person what they think of the USA and NATO, they will not give good opinions, I think they have partly lost credibility, they do not enter if they do not touch their allied countries, so why promise to help if they are not going to do it?

AicecreaME

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Quote from: asus09 on March 11, 2022, 11:35:41 AM

China has its own mission in helping Russia to carry out the invasion of Ukraine, China is a country that wants to have its own advantage, they will do everything possible to get an advantage, where he sees an advantage, he will try to approach, but if China does not benefit, already surely he will not care about all that, as China did with bitcoin, because the Chinese government cannot control bitcoin, so in 2017 China immediately banned bitcoin mining in his country,

This is no news. China wants everything that would be beneficial to them. They are just waiting for the opportunity to take advantage of the situation. The moment they got a glimpse of a scene that would be useful for them, they would do everything on their power to make it happen.

Right now, China said that they are not in any way affiliated as an ally to Russia. It's because they have seen all the sanctions imposed upon Russia. I believe they think that the world sanctions would really do much harm if they will be involved, hence chose to be secretly backing up Russia for the raw materials they need.

stomachgrowls

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China is the only neutral party for now, and this places it in a leadership position in seeking a solution to the conflict. China must rise to this leadership opportunity and Russia and the NATO allies must embrace China's leadership as the only solution to end this conflict that has the potential to consume the entire European continent and the west

China has one of the most biggest economy in the world and they won't risk their welfare for this war started with very pointless reasons. just look at the statistics: GPD: $18.46 trillion (nominal; 2022 est.) $29.4 trillion (PPP; 2022 est.)

Not only China but also in other countries as well which are known to be one of the most powerful which are still giving out some moral support and not that military aid or back up whether of those

both countries which it isnt surprising that they wouldnt really be doing something that they do see that it would back fire once this war is over specially if you are doing against Russia
then you would definitely be having those presumptions of having some comeback on what you had done earlier.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

China is the only neutral party for now, and this places it in a leadership position in seeking a solution to the conflict. China must rise to this leadership opportunity and Russia and the NATO allies must embrace China's leadership as the only solution to end this conflict that has the potential to consume the entire European continent and the west

Actually, another big country that's kind of neutral is India, so China is not the only one. But China is more important geopolitically, I think, so let's focus on that. The problem with China and embracing it is that it comes at a high price. China is itself a very problematic authoritarian state with basically concentration camps and lots of human rights violations. So the West doesn't want to empower China any more than it has already been empowered by deep economic ties between the US and China. Meanwhile, as a fellow dictatorship, China's more sympathetic toward Putin than Western leaders, so really joining the war on the side of the Western countries is not something China's willing to do, unless Russia does something especially stupid like annexing a part of China's territory. And as long as China doesn't help Russia too much, it's enough.

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Quote from: tygeade on March 14, 2022, 12:14:12 AM

It is basically about the amount they are willing to spend plus the other side taking hold of some information. If you send someone regular AR weapons and ammunition then even if the other side gets it (probably already bought it from someone way back when it first came out) then there wouldn't be any dangers.

However, airplane is something that runs on tech, and if the other side gets their hands on that tech, they could get a better defence ready for something like that, and it would be scary. So, sending like F series war planes would be a risky move, because it would give Russians time to get one and then result with some tides turning for the USA.

This is correct and why USA doesn't send stuffs with tech in it. There are only a number of them, and even they do get caught and researched very well somehow as well, not easy, but can be done and that is why it keeps getting changed all the time. This is why drones are used right now. Those Bayraktar Drones that Ukraine uses costs like 4 million dollars or so, cheapest big weapon in the entire world, we are talking about like the missile you use to take one day costs more than the drone itself.

Hence, I believe that the war world will go towards that, we will see plenty more of those. And I mean like regular drone size things that will be managed all together all at once from a center and attack plenty of soldiers all at once.

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Quote from: Argoo on March 11, 2022, 05:39:11 AM

Quote from: merchantofzeny on March 10, 2022, 11:06:00 AM

I wonder if, despite the news about China refusing to sell Russia aircraft parts, that they'd still help secretly. If Russia loses this though or get heavily sanctioned, it is also to China's benefit since RUS would basically become a North Korea, cut off economically from the rest of the world and reduced to selling raw materials to China for cheap.

China will not secretly help Russia. The Chinese government will only do what is beneficial to it. And it is beneficial for China that Russia economically weakens and then there will be an opportunity to use its raw material base on the cheap. A weak Russia is sure to become a target for China in terms of its large territories. After all, China has long laid claim to a significant part of the territory of Siberia. Russia has introduced the rule of the strong into international politics and will itself suffer from it.

It depends on what type of help you are talking about. China won't help with weapons because Russia doesn't need that. Russia doesn't need technology either. What Russia needs right now is trade agreements. And that's the point of china helping Russia. China has a big economy and market. The same thing applies to India. If Russia convince China and India to trade with them despite the sanction from the west then Russia could hold its economy. Trading with China and India won't be that profitable like the West, but it will sustain Russia's economy from collapsing.

Russia is now very quickly becoming a pariah country and will be similar to North Korea in this respect. China will certainly take advantage of this situation and the weakening of Russia's position. They say that Russia has already turned to China for help in military equipment, but China is unlikely to do this, since it itself will be afraid of sanctions and, on the other hand, China is interested in weakening Russia's position in the international arena. Strong sanctions against Russia may deter China from attacking Taiwan. At the same time, Taiwan is now studying Ukraine's experience in a successful war against Russia in order to repel possible Chinese aggression.

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Quote from: Gyfts on March 12, 2022, 04:00:51 AM

Also the reason why the U.S. won't swap fighter jets with Poland so that their old ones can be used by Ukraine. The no fly zone is understandable, but if the West is already providing ammo and other military equipment, sending fighter jets doesn't seem so over the top. Putin is bluffing with his nuclear weapons IMO. Obviously not a gamble the West should take, but WW3 is a bit hyperbolic. As long as the U.S. is not killing Russian troops, they can support by proxy. It's essentially what's been the case with the Middle East for years, a proxy war between U.S. backed and Russian backed groups.

It is basically about the amount they are willing to spend plus the other side taking hold of some information. If you send someone regular AR weapons and ammunition then even if the other side gets it (probably already bought it from someone way back when it first came out) then there wouldn't be any dangers.

However, airplane is something that runs on tech, and if the other side gets their hands on that tech, they could get a better defence ready for something like that, and it would be scary. So, sending like F series war planes would be a risky move, because it would give Russians time to get one and then result with some tides turning for the USA.

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Quote from: macson on March 12, 2022, 01:18:38 PM

Quote from: Uang_kartal on March 12, 2022, 07:27:24 AM

developed countries such as the US and China, fortunately they have not taken part in this game, war is not an entertainment or a joke, and I hope they don't interfere in this. Because I hope the war will pass soon. There was info on China monitoring Taiwan and some corners in some areas, maybe China wants to fully help Russia but relations with other countries may not be vague considering the Chinese military is quite complete, I'm not mentioning who is wrong and right but this impact will extend to several elements of finance, economy, stocks, crypto etc.

You are wrong, China and the US have taken part in the war between Ukraine and Russia, China is Russia's best friend and according to reports, as long as economic sanctions hit Russia, China has fully assisted. Since the beginning these two countries ^{(China and the US)} have always been involved in the affairs of many countries, if both were not involved then the world would be safe.

I don't think so, China is not Russia's best friend, China's best friend is its economy, if they get disadvantages from friending with Russia they won't be together. Now Russia was refused by China to give them aircraft parts which is a sign that they are not ,,the best friends''. Also, I think China might play a positive mediating role in this war, who knows.

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Quote from: Uang_kartal on March 12, 2022, 07:27:24 AM

developed countries such as the US and China, fortunately they have not taken part in this game, war is not an entertainment or a joke, and I hope they don't interfere in this. Because I hope the war will pass soon. There was info on China monitoring Taiwan and some corners in some areas, maybe China wants to fully help Russia but relations with other countries may not be vague considering the Chinese military is quite complete, I'm not mentioning who is wrong and right but this impact will extend to several elements of finance, economy, stocks, crypto etc.

You are wrong, China and the US have taken part in the war between Ukraine and Russia, China is Russia's best friend and according to reports, as long as economic sanctions hit Russia, China has fully assisted. Since the beginning these two countries ^{(China and the US)} have always been involved in the affairs of many countries, if both were not involved then the world would be safe.

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Quote from: Gyfts on March 12, 2022, 04:00:51 AM

Quote from: Haunebu on March 02, 2022, 01:53:56 PM

Quote from: Mauser on February 27, 2022, 10:36:37 AM

This is also why USA doesn't want to get involved to deeply in Ukraine, because their main concern these days is China and not Russia anymore.

I disagree. You are over-estimating China and under-estimating Russia. US doesn't want to get involved just like many other countries because it could start WW3 which is detrimental to the entire world.

Putin already kept nukes on standby which goes to show that he isn't bothered about the fact that his actions could start WW3.

Also the reason why the U.S. won't swap fighter jets with Poland so that their old ones can be used by Ukraine. The no fly zone is understandable, but if the West is already providing ammo and other military equipment, sending fighter jets doesn't seem so over the top. Putin is bluffing with his nuclear weapons IMO. Obviously not a gamble the West should take, but WW3 is a bit hyperbolic. As long as the U.S. is not killing Russian troops, they can support by proxy. It's essentially what's been the case with the Middle East for years, a proxy war between U.S. backed and Russian backed groups.

There is a slightly different problem here:
1. Poland heard Russian statements that it was ready to use tactical nuclear weapons against those NATO countries that would join in helping Ukraine, and Poland was openly named as a strike point. And after Poland saw some defense impotence of NATO and Western countries, it decided not to take risks and decided to go "another way" and offered to transfer the MI-29 to a base in Germany. AND...
2. Germany, which has a large group of politicians bribed by the Kremlin for a long time, dances to the Kremlin's tune and of course says to Poland "no, we will not accept them." At the same time, Germany "expresses concern" to the public, well, in order to at least somehow hide support for rashism.

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developed countries such as the US and China, fortunately they have not taken part in this game, war is not an entertainment or a joke, and I hope they don't interfere in this. Because I hope the war will pass soon. There was info on China monitoring Taiwan and some corners in some areas, maybe China wants to fully help Russia but relations with other countries may not be vague considering the Chinese military is quite complete, I'm not mentioning who is wrong and right but this impact will extend to several elements of finance, economy, stocks, crypto etc.

Topic: China's strategy on the Ukraine invasion war (Read 749 times)