China's strategy on the Ukraine invasion war - page 2.

Fortify

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Quote from: paxmao on February 24, 2022, 06:55:55 AM

How is China playing this?

a) Observing carefully as how the West is playing this crisis, how far they are willing to go when ~~China invades Taiwan~~ Russia invades Ukraine. How powerful is the response, how far is the West willing to go.

b) Keeping a distance from both sides, but not "the same distance" from both sides:

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China criticized the Washington's response on Wednesday, saying the new US sanctions amounted to throwing "fuel on the fire" and were "irresponsible and immoral."

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In a joint statement, Russia and China called on NATO to "ideologized approaches of the Cold War" and "respect the diversity of civilizational and cultural-historical patterns" in other countries.

As you can see, China is nothing but happy about this, as they are watching two potential enemies erode themselves and testing their strength. Lots of lessons will be learnt on the handling of this crisis and I would not say that Europe and Democracies are playing a great role in terms of intimidation, yet at least is managing to stay reasonably united.

China are such a bunch of hypocrites and it is so clear for all to see. They say don't throw fuel on the fire? Well Russia has invaded a country in Europe - proceeding to murder civilians and level cities all over with zero justification. It is Russia that needs to learn to respect other cultures and civilizations instead of trying to impose their will by endless violence. There is no way that Russia comes out of this war successfully, even if they continue murdering innocent people their economy will be shattered for decades to come. The only way this ends now is with the downfall of Putin, hopefully he can be replaced by a democratic system which will take a long time to build. The Chinese are a bunch of cowards, simply looking to prop up another friendly authoritarian government but they'll both end up losing in the long run. Dictator Xi Jinping better be scared, this is the Chinese future.

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Quote from: DrBeer on March 12, 2022, 03:54:14 AM

And China will not bomb the residential and industrial areas of Taiwan like the terrorist troops of the Russians.

I think the war is now taking another way and that should be a major concern now. If Russia is going to start bumping of children hospital instead of focusing on the military and government infrastructures, this is bad. The Ukraine president is raising alarm on this for ICC to see evidences of war crimes. Putin and his Army chiefs seem to be in denier but the pictures are there for the atrocities committed in this fight.

Ararbermas

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Quote from: Koro-Sensei on February 24, 2022, 12:37:02 PM

China is surely playing safe as of the moment. I think they will join the conflict once US joined the party which could lead to total catastrophe. They will surely start at disputed territorial waters in South China sea and bully its way to have those unexplored oils there. They are watching the situation closely and once US sends troops, I think that would be the time that they will move as well.

agreed, as of the moment surely china is waiting for a sign in order for them to make move to join on the conflict between Ukraine and Russia or probably to invade Taiwan as well at the current situation since they have increased its military activity around Taiwan like what Russia did when they heard Ukraine wants to join the NATO. So It will be a world world if that happens.

Gyfts

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Quote from: Haunebu on March 02, 2022, 01:53:56 PM

Quote from: Mauser on February 27, 2022, 10:36:37 AM

This is also why USA doesn't want to get involved to deeply in Ukraine, because their main concern these days is China and not Russia anymore.

I disagree. You are over-estimating China and under-estimating Russia. US doesn't want to get involved just like many other countries because it could start WW3 which is detrimental to the entire world.

Putin already kept nukes on standby which goes to show that he isn't bothered about the fact that his actions could start WW3.

Also the reason why the U.S. won't swap fighter jets with Poland so that their old ones can be used by Ukraine. The no fly zone is understandable, but if the West is already providing ammo and other military equipment, sending fighter jets doesn't seem so over the top. Putin is bluffing with his nuclear weapons IMO. Obviously not a gamble the West should take, but WW3 is a bit hyperbolic. As long as the U.S. is not killing Russian troops, they can support by proxy. It's essentially what's been the case with the Middle East for years, a proxy war between U.S. backed and Russian backed groups.

DrBeer

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Quote from: darewaller on March 11, 2022, 12:38:24 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on March 11, 2022, 05:59:47 AM

It seems that in this situation, it will be easier, more profitable and safer for China to get its "historical territories" beyond the Urals, which will not cause an international, negative reaction than to seize Taiwan. China is wise. China is not a country of degraded, stupid, thieves, fascists like Russia. China is wisdom, even in the form of the Communist Party in power. Moreover, China now has a great time to "contemplate" what is happening, and make a decision - to finish off the weak, to continue partnerships with the strong.

Even though I hate the CCP, and I have to say they are doing things against humanity and they are disgusting pigs. I have to say the smart part is correct, they are ruthless, they are cunning and they are smart which makes them even a bigger threat to all over the world.

They would not take Taiwan like how Russia is doing to Ukraine, they would take it in a single day. Why? Because the longer you take, the more sanctions and troubles are waiting for you, but if you take it in a single day, with no matter how many people dead, and how many places are destroyed, now it is about you going back, not about stopping you going further and that is easier to handle.

China is a rather specific country, you can’t argue with that. But, unlike the empty-headed Kremlin fascists, the Chinese government is pragmatic. The issue of Taiwan is not an easy one. I, on the example of my country, understanding what annexation or forcible "accession" is, is against such steps. Well, and most importantly, China probably will not take such steps as seizing Taiwan in one day, ignoring the victims. Taiwan has value not only as a territory, but also as a world technology center. And China will not bomb the residential and industrial areas of Taiwan like the terrorist troops of the Russians.

darewaller

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Quote from: DrBeer on March 11, 2022, 05:59:47 AM

It seems that in this situation, it will be easier, more profitable and safer for China to get its "historical territories" beyond the Urals, which will not cause an international, negative reaction than to seize Taiwan. China is wise. China is not a country of degraded, stupid, thieves, fascists like Russia. China is wisdom, even in the form of the Communist Party in power. Moreover, China now has a great time to "contemplate" what is happening, and make a decision - to finish off the weak, to continue partnerships with the strong.

Even though I hate the CCP, and I have to say they are doing things against humanity and they are disgusting pigs. I have to say the smart part is correct, they are ruthless, they are cunning and they are smart which makes them even a bigger threat to all over the world.

They would not take Taiwan like how Russia is doing to Ukraine, they would take it in a single day. Why? Because the longer you take, the more sanctions and troubles are waiting for you, but if you take it in a single day, with no matter how many people dead, and how many places are destroyed, now it is about you going back, not about stopping you going further and that is easier to handle.

asus09

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China has its own mission in helping Russia to carry out the invasion of Ukraine, China is a country that wants to have its own advantage, they will do everything possible to get an advantage, where he sees an advantage, he will try to approach, but if China does not benefit, already surely he will not care about all that, as China did with bitcoin, because the Chinese government cannot control bitcoin, so in 2017 China immediately banned bitcoin mining in his country,

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on March 11, 2022, 11:15:05 AM

What I think of all this is that China is playing a very strategic role, it is for them the opportunity to end the hegemony of the dollar and world governments, for the Chinese an alliance with the Russians seems much more effective than with the Americans for many reasons, among which the biggest is the economic one, and this will be a war of economic positions dollar and euro VS Yuan, it is something that China is taking advantage of because by suffocating Russia with economic sanctions its only ally will be China, and in Russia what is left over is gold, then the economic exchange will eventually take place in a balance of the strongest, I think that this is where an era will begin where the dollar will possibly suffer more economic declines (inflation) as is happening and for CHINA it will begin to emerge a stronger economy, even stronger than the European economy in general.

Weren't these two floating the idea of going back to the gold standard just a few years ago? No matter what though, Russia is definitely getting the short end of the stick in that alliance since it'll eventually be forced to trade with only China (And perhaps maybe India? What's their stance?) and we can then expect Beijing to increasingly dictate the policy in Moscow, like it does with Pyongyang.

LUCKMCFLY

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What I think of all this is that China is playing a very strategic role, it is for them the opportunity to end the hegemony of the dollar and world governments, for the Chinese an alliance with the Russians seems much more effective than with the Americans for many reasons, among which the biggest is the economic one, and this will be a war of economic positions dollar and euro VS Yuan, it is something that China is taking advantage of because by suffocating Russia with economic sanctions its only ally will be China, and in Russia what is left over is gold, then the economic exchange will eventually take place in a balance of the strongest, I think that this is where an era will begin where the dollar will possibly suffer more economic declines (inflation) as is happening and for CHINA it will begin to emerge a stronger economy, even stronger than the European economy in general.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: Argoo on March 11, 2022, 05:39:11 AM

Quote from: merchantofzeny on March 10, 2022, 11:06:00 AM

I wonder if, despite the news about China refusing to sell Russia aircraft parts, that they'd still help secretly. If Russia loses this though or get heavily sanctioned, it is also to China's benefit since RUS would basically become a North Korea, cut off economically from the rest of the world and reduced to selling raw materials to China for cheap.

China will not secretly help Russia. The Chinese government will only do what is beneficial to it. And it is beneficial for China that Russia economically weakens and then there will be an opportunity to use its raw material base on the cheap. A weak Russia is sure to become a target for China in terms of its large territories. After all, China has long laid claim to a significant part of the territory of Siberia. Russia has introduced the rule of the strong into international politics and will itself suffer from it.

I think that's the end goal, to have Russia as another North Korea as many have already pointed out. I'm just thinking that prolonging the conflict could also play into China's hands. Russia would be bankrupt, the Western alliance would have to shell out money to reconstruct Ukraine, the EU have to deal with an immigrant crisis, etc.

STT

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Most mobile phones rely on the UK design but the production of the actual chip could be China Taiwan or South Korea possibly as ARM only does designs. The normal CPU production is not suitable, too much heat and power is used even by laptop chips so alot of the world uses very similar designs in origin. China will trade however profits them best overall globally, as the country lacks oil they do require that but it doesnt have to come from Russia exactly. Perhaps the heat is too much at present for them to raise the trouble of breaking ranks with the rest of the world but its hard to believe these two companies do not continue long term trade.

DrBeer

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It seems that in this situation, it will be easier, more profitable and safer for China to get its "historical territories" beyond the Urals, which will not cause an international, negative reaction than to seize Taiwan. China is wise. China is not a country of degraded, stupid, thieves, fascists like Russia. China is wisdom, even in the form of the Communist Party in power. Moreover, China now has a great time to "contemplate" what is happening, and make a decision - to finish off the weak, to continue partnerships with the strong.

Mometaskers

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They're definitely watching closely how far the Western countries would be willing to help Ukraine since that could signal the response an invasion of Taiwan would elicit. There's a small possibility I think that if NATO ever overcommit itself to helping Ukraine that China would take that as a chance to take Taiwan. After all, there's only so much military assets to spread around and if US is also fighting in Europe it might overreach itself. It's basically only the US, Japan and maybe Australia that are nearby to come to Taiwan's aid.

Argoo

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Quote from: merchantofzeny on March 10, 2022, 11:06:00 AM

I wonder if, despite the news about China refusing to sell Russia aircraft parts, that they'd still help secretly. If Russia loses this though or get heavily sanctioned, it is also to China's benefit since RUS would basically become a North Korea, cut off economically from the rest of the world and reduced to selling raw materials to China for cheap.

China will not secretly help Russia. The Chinese government will only do what is beneficial to it. And it is beneficial for China that Russia economically weakens and then there will be an opportunity to use its raw material base on the cheap. A weak Russia is sure to become a target for China in terms of its large territories. After all, China has long laid claim to a significant part of the territory of Siberia. Russia has introduced the rule of the strong into international politics and will itself suffer from it.

merchantofzeny

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I wonder if, despite the news about China refusing to sell Russia aircraft parts, that they'd still help secretly. If Russia loses this though or get heavily sanctioned, it is also to China's benefit since RUS would basically become a North Korea, cut off economically from the rest of the world and reduced to selling raw materials to China for cheap.

stompix

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And then all armchair generals that have continuously said China will bail out and help Russia get hit with reality:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-says-china-refuses-supply-aircraft-parts-after-sanctions-2022-03-10/

Quote from: TimeTeller on March 07, 2022, 01:35:40 PM

I can understand about this almost 90% of our household are China made.
Just look at the tags of every equipment, gadget or basically anything you can hold, and yes, it is Made in China.

Actually, not my fridge, not my washing machine, not my oven are made in China.
And assembled in Chian means one thing, made by Chinese companies is a different thing.
Take their former Huawei phone:

And that's the product of a Chinese company, on the others, the only Chinese things are only the fingerprints from the packaging.

If everything is made in China, then how come Germany exports 1.7 trillion of stuff?

DrBeer

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Quote from: bakasabo on March 09, 2022, 11:18:02 AM

China is acting very professionally by being neutrally, but making some announcement so that everyone dont forget that they exist. They will supply both, Russia and other countries by sanctioned goods with affordable price. They will only strengthen their economics with this war. They will supply Russia with clothes, spare parts, electronics, Russia on other hand will offer them special price for its resources and smart China will resell it.

Yeah - just the day before yesterday the news came out - Chinese goods and equipment, for Russia, rose by 30-40%

China is very cruel in fact - it will "use" a weakening empire for its own benefit by 1000%, will play by the rules with a strong one. Russia for China is just a raw material appendage, nothing more. Well, the bearer of territories that historically belong to China, and in the future will be returned to China - after all, Russia opened a pandora's box - it said that "historical annexation" is normal! True, the stupidity of Russia again played a bad joke with her - now they themselves will become a victim of their decisions

bakasabo

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China is acting very professionally by being neutrally, but making some announcement so that everyone dont forget that they exist. They will supply both, Russia and other countries by sanctioned goods with affordable price. They will only strengthen their economics with this war. They will supply Russia with clothes, spare parts, electronics, Russia on other hand will offer them special price for its resources and smart China will resell it.

DrBeer

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China specific object. They are not for Russia and not against the United States. They are FOR YOURSELF! For the Chinese economy, the United States is the largest consumer, Russia is a raw materials appendage, and a vassal that can be manipulated to achieve its goals. Now China, according to its habit, philosophically observes what is happening, and waits for how it will end. And it will end soon, because. the Russian army is defeated and demoralized. After that, China will make a decision. Most likely, Putin will sell, of course, the matter is not open, another part of Russian lands to China, and receive some money, but these are already the convulsions of a dying economy. Write it down - by the summer of 2023, the economy in Russia will cease to exist. And China is buying up virtually everything, more or less valuable enterprises and entire segments of the economy, for next to nothing. Russia becomes part of China

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Quote from: Sebas.tian on March 08, 2022, 12:21:00 AM

The relationship between China and Russia is too strong which will not make China to join other countries to fight Russian in this battle that is going on between Ukraine and Russian. But China will definitely use this opportunity to make a lot of money from Russian for the goods they are going to supply Russian that will make them untouchables till the end of the war. Based on the relationship, China knew that Russian government will definitely need some items from them during the war or after the war because of their relationship they have developed over some years.

The real reason why China is taking a pro-Russian stance right now is because they are planning similar operations in Taiwan and other disputed territories (such as the Senkaku Islands). On top of that, they are not happy with the Western involvement in the Hong Kong protests, as well as with the Xinjiang internal issues. And finally, Russia is an energy producing country and China is a consumer. A relationship between these two can be mutually beneficial for them. Higher energy prices is not something that China would want at this point.

Topic: China's strategy on the Ukraine invasion war - page 2. (Read 749 times)