Topic: 🌟CLOSING SALE🌟 [DENARIUM] | Next Gen Physical Bitcoins 🌟CLOSING SOON🌟 - page 18. (Read 56311 times)

Here is a picture of the Denarium 1 BTC Silver package: https://twitter.com/DenariumBitcoin/status/709797613302902785

I dub this hologram issue "Sticker Gate 2016". Had there not been any presales I would say no big deal, but now it is sort of a mess. This is why presales are always a bad idea.
 

We had a plan in place, just like I outlined in this post. We've never had a hologram error from the manufacturer side and in that case we would have asked about how fast can we get a replacement (as that would be on them) and then decide based on that.

I read through this and I'm still not sure why you can't acquire the extra stickers that were destroyed, holograms are just elaborate stickers with print on them.  If your hologram manufacturer isn't willing to replace an extremely small percentage of your previous larger order, I would think that to be an internal issue that needs to be resolved.

Maybe it's a cost thing, but I would expect a plan would have already been in place if sticker placement went awry or the final sticker had printing errors on it.

In any case, I am looking forward to my website ordered coins but I wish the best of luck to users who bid higher on the earlier numbered ones.

It is indeed subjective and some are willing to pay much more for better serials. That's why our compensation for the changes will be based mainly on the bid price differences.

Really depends on who you are. If you were in the auction you might care more because most coins went for 0.4 to 1BTC each. Unfunded too.

The first auction had 15 bids above 0.6. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12813997

Low serials are overstated.
I ordered my coins on the website and don't care about that.

I appreciate the feedback but let me clarify a couple of things. The method of moving the serials forward was locked in months ago. It is what we always planned to do in case there are ruined holograms. So this was in no way a "rushed decision". This was not perhaps clarified or communicated properly before, so the customers couldn't really know what could happen. But we never expected to get more than 0-1 ruined holograms as during assembly it's quite unlikely that more 1 will be ruined. This was a freak accident that happened after assembly and even though the effect on customers was much worse than 1 ruined hologram, we decided to go with our original plan of moving the serials forward.

After that we assembled and packaged the rest of the auction coins (and the packages are different depending on whether it's loaded, empty, multisig etc) and only after that we saw the messages from you guys. We had a crisis meeting at that point to consider all the possible options including repackaging everything and re-ordering the holograms. We would've needed to confirm from all 3 parties whether they want to wait approximately 1,5 months more (yes, this is how long it would've taken) to get the original serials or if they want their order now. In no way can we assume that all 3 would accept the delay automatically. This process would've taken some time and then we would've had to make database changes and packaging changes for all the coins starting from the affected serials. And then we also had to take into account that ordering any amount of new holograms has the high fixed cost which basically is comparable to the bid prices of all the coins involved.
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That's basically all of it. In the future we will never promise anyone specific serials but only the order of the serials. This has been decided. Not that we are expecting issues with the holograms in the future, our general rate of failure is extremely low at the moment and the accident we had this time is preventable with some precautions.


Any suggestions are appreciated of course. I replied to the email. Our main compensation method is a money refund based on the bid price differences but we can think of other means as well as long as they are fair taking into account all the orders that got their serials moved.

@ CanaryInTheMine: spot-on again! A ''quick'' and dirty solution like '' just add +5'' is imho not appropriate for a product, which is considered a collectors item.

The cost of ordering new holograms is probably lower than loosing future sales and reputation...

Here's my 2 bits on this.

A6-A10 coins effect 3 orders only.  But now, every order including and after these 3 is effected due to +5 decision.  In my opinion, you made a quick decision on the spot but did not think it through because of some amount of panic and desire to get the coins out ASAP.  It's a bad mistake.  You should have instead isolated the issue to the 3 involved parties and worked out the issue directly with 3 effected purchasers instead of effecting all orders after A5 coin.  I bet all 3 would have agreed to wait some more?  but since you already made the decision and went forward, It's not necessary to continue arguing.  I simply think you should have handled it differently.

I will propose that the effected parties get early access to a future silver coin to get low serials, I'll send you an email regarding this one idea.

Here is our twitter announcement of the start of shipping: https://twitter.com/DenariumBitcoin/status/708327332243701760

Shipping will commence in batches. The first batch is around 50 coins which are shipped today & Monday. Second batch will be shipped later next week and that will include all the rest of the pre-orders.

Priority for shipping has been given to the auction coins and other than that we are mostly going with "first-come-first-served" basis meaning that those who ordered first, will be shipped first.

Around half of the 250 coin limited series is still available to buy at our website (https://denarium.com).

Compensation will be given to everyone affected if they ask for compensation, but not equally. The bidders of low serial coins paid much more for their coins than people who won high serial coins and the compensation is based on this. For example for someone whose serial changed from A32 to A37 it's not as significant compared to the ones who got A11+ instead of a serial below 10.


We would've used the serials starting from 50 and then we would've started the next auction coins from higher up. We already have those holograms so it's not a practical problem at all. But it looks like we don't need to do that since the serials are going up to 48 or 49 for this series I believe.


I think your coin is 49 now, but not 100% sure. Either 48 or 49. I can confirm that later.

Edit: The last coin is 49.

The issue was that when the error happened, we made a decision to do the +5. That affected production of the coins immediately. Coins that were in assembly & packaging at that point. Making another decision to change that later on would have caused significant extra delay for all pre-orders of 1 BTC coins, as it would have required massive database changes, packaging changes and so on.

That is the primary reason but not the only reason. There are other issues such as the cost of ordering any amount of holograms has a high fixed starting price and it would cost us more than the sell value of the coins in question to re-order the holograms. So the issue is in all possible ways extremely difficult.

But we will offer other compensation for this mess, for those affected. That is for sure.

This batch is already 1,5 month late so two more days shouldn't be a problem. You know of ruined holograms not since yesterday so the error could likely  be corrected in time. 

PM sent.

Alright guys, we had a meeting regarding the auction serial number issue and we have come to a decision.

We thought about all the possible options carefully and came to the conclusion that we can't go forward with the plan of reordering the ruined holograms. The production & packaging of the coins is already at such a state that doing any changes to our batch would delay the shipping of *every order* by at least a day or two. And we don't want to do that since there have been enough delays. We have started shipping now, today. First packages are going out right now.

We can offer compensation for the changed serial numbers on a case by case basis. Please email your complaints about this to [email protected] and we'll come up with a compensation package. That is the best we can do. If the change is totally unacceptable, cancel and full refund is of course also an option.

exactly. I placed a high bid during auction to get into single digits ''A series'' and I was very happy that I got one. I thought you have experience in manufacturing physical bitcoins so preordnering wouldn't be such a hassle.
Shipment of the coins has a delay of 1,5 month already. Please reorder these specific 6-10 holograms so that people get what they bid for.

numbers under 10 are a psychological thing... Market may not be aware until they look.  And no one looks immediately but they do see what's in front of them and less than 10 is more exciting than over 10.  Also, this just increased the value of the first 5 numbers, a freebie sort of.
Isn't there a way to reorder these specific 6-10 holograms?

We've had ruined single holograms before but not like this. It was a major setback but we're moving forward and will make sure such accidents never happen again.

In any event the serials are as unique as they were before and relatively speaking just as low as before. I'm pretty sure the aftermarket will be aware of the fact that A6-A10 don't exist at all.

Well, this really sucks:( was so happy to get A9...

Ouch!