Topic: Cloudbet | Sportsbook and Casino | Bet with BTC and BCH | 100% Deposit Bonus - page 140. (Read 465733 times)

Thank you for your response Ronnie at least we see that you guys are being open about this, and this is exactly what I'm trying to say actually.

You are right, players like me are absolutely never going to sign up at a site that needs KYC. But this means for me, as long as there is the possibility that kyc is required, I am never playing, and I know almost 100% anyone who wouldn't sign up because of KYC at signup, would also never sign up if there would be kyc down the line.

So it is extremely important you make it clear at the site on sign up. So people don't get unfairly "trapped".

That is the biggest nonsense answer I have ever heard!!!

Of course are AML laws specific to the jurisdiction within the operator of a casino is incorporated!


It is really unbelievable that you persist to claim you have a Montenegrin license while it was several times posted in this thread that the license was seized on June 30, 2017 by Montenegrin authorities!


Confirms what a shady and criminal operation you are!!!

Usually(always?), player is required to provide their credentials on registration but no one will ask picture of ID card if deposit amount is small. I don't know how it works for bigger amounts, but anyway, they have right to enforce KYC at any time for whatever reason they want. What I meant to say is that they don't need to verify identity of each user on sign-up or deposit, that's all.
As for withdrawals, I don't know how it is in other countries and by other laws, but for example in my country, no one is selectively asking ID's on withdrawal, it is required to provide picture of ID on first withdrawal even for smallest amount.

Only red flag in this particular case was - player wants to place bet, after deposit they found out that they can't place bet with their deposit. How is this red flag?

Why Cloudbet accepted deposit under minimum bet requirement?

Better question is, if this really was big red flag(which in my opinion wasn't) and they enforced KYC because of AML, why did Cludbet send money back to player? Player refused to provide their identity. This certainly doesn't comply with AML laws.

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This is not true.

Besides, even if this was true(and it isn't) paragraph is not visible if someone enters date of birth manually, and of course, why would someone who is 18+ go trough 18+ years clicking on calendar month by month to find their date of birth:



Looking at sign up form given by Cloudbet, such paragraph is very well hidden. ToS doesn't even exist on that page.

Can you point me to their website  and also if you don't mind can you point me where can we find information about their concession? Just to see if our info match  

Ronnie @ Cloudbet thank you for the post

It would be helpful if the response from your support team was added to the website regarding your internal AML policy.

Right now the primary issue I see with regards to AML/KYC is that the acronyms "AML" and "KYC" are not actually listed, written or mentioned in the TOS or any other pages of the Cloudbet website. Please could you explain why that is the case yet customers have to abide your internal AML practice which customers have no idea about as it is not written anywhere on your website.

Please could you also explain when you intend to implement EU laws regarding GDPR. When will your website become GDPR compliant? Until then your website is effectively in breach of EU law. Your website does not even display cookie notifications which also is in breach of EU regulations.

Thank you

Afternoon all! Sorry for the delayed responses, I was out yesterday unexpectedly and wasn't able to arrange cover at the last minute.

@teteczv Our investigations look at betting irregularity, but unfortunately I cannot talk about specifics. If you contact our support team directly they can update you with any new information. As far as I know you are not being accused of anything, but we need to investigate some apparent - we are simply raising a flag rather than pointing a finger.

@JollyGood


In cases like the above funds are held in the player's account until an investigation is concluded, at which point they are either unlocked for withdrawal or reclaimed in cases where a player has deliberately broken our rules.


As stated before, the only time funds are frozen is when there is proof of deliberate rule breaking. I'll discuss with our support teams how we can make this clearer on site, but our rules are there for everyone to see before signing up to Cloudbet.





We clearly state our Terms and Conditions and where our license is held. Unfortunately, I have no further information beyond what is provided on that page. You can contact E Gambling Montenegro directly for information or dispute resolution if you ever have cause for complaint.

@slaman29 Thanks for stopping by! At the moment we only request KYC when certain flags have been raised. We try to avoid it wherever possible as we know anonymity is very important to some of our players, and I suspect that KYC for all new players on sign up would drive a lot of people away. It's something I'm happy to pass on as feedback to the team though, as I know the topic comes up for discussion regularly.

@marlboroza You make a very good point about agreeing to T&Cs at sign up. The paragraph below covers agreement to T&Cs, but I'll pass the suggestion to our website team about making that more explicit on the sign up form:

"By using and/or visiting any part, page or section of the website Cloudbet.com (the “Website”), and/or opening an account with Cloudbet, you agree to be bound by these Terms and Conditions and are deemed to have accepted and understood all of the Terms and Conditions."

In regards to the KYC jurisdiction, I received a response from support yesterday but was out of the office - "AML is not really specific to a jurisdiction, we have our own internal best practice policy which dictates the process we follow. We obviously follow the rules laid out by our license provider and ADR and mirror these in other territories as part of our dedication to being a responsible gambling operator."

Thanks very much,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

This is exactly what this website and others including gambling, gaming and exchanges should do.

What I'm saying is, if they HAVE to enforce KYC, and they know at some point they must, then it is onboarding that KYC should be implemented and not "surprise surprise we need to verify you" after the player decides he wants to withdraw his balance.

I think KYC shouldn't be enforced at all, but if they must because of law, actually I'm pretty sure the law states they must identify their customers whom they are taking money from. So either they have KYC or they don't. And if they do, make it clear from the beginning so that nobody is trapped.

KYC laws apply equally for deposits and withdrawals if they pass a certain amount.

But as Fraudbet is an illegal casino operation, they do not apply with anything and use KYC bla bla as a scam tactic!

You raised very good points including the website TOS is not appropriate.

Rules regarding GDPR/AML/KYC is not mentioned even once on the Cloudbet website. I also raised important points in my posts here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45836329
and
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45862320

We are waiting for Ronnie @ Cloudbet to reply

Actually, this is false. No one has to enforce KYC on signup or deposit.

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So, under whose jurisdiction Cloudbet operate? I am surprised that 6 days has passed and you didn't check it, I asked you couple of times already. Can you check it for me?


One more thing, your ToS is not valid. Not a single player agreed to your ToS:



Under whose jurisdiction is hidden ToS valid 

AML/KYC requirements vary from country to country, jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Which laws does Cloudbet claim to be governed by?

Why are Cloudbet complying with AML/KYC but not GDPR laws?

Why is AML or KYC not even mentioned once on their Cloudbet website?

Why do they invoke AML/KYC without making it known what it is on their website?

Why do they invoke AML/KYC without making it known what will happen if the customer declines to send ID on their website?

I agree, AML/KYC must be a condition when registering for an account at these betting sites which means deposits should only be able to take place if verification has been successful. That would solve a lot of problems. I for one will never send my ID to these online crypto companies because I do not trust them.

That's just how the casino business is. I've been gambling online for over 12 years and through the hundreds of websites that I've tried out I've never had any issues with signing up and depositing money, however when I want to withdraw I've always had to "activate" my account by sending in proper documentations. First off, I knew this when I got into it as it does make sense. You are sending them your money and once they've received it, it is their money. If you truly want a decentralized experience where you can keep yourself anonymous then you should never play at a regular casino. It's not that hard after all.

On one hand I feel sorry for Cloubet, who has no choice but to perform all these AML/KYC measures, as is their requirement. But on the other hand, I think it is truly unfair to freeze player accounts without any actual justification, other than the standard lines we keep seeing casinos do to players.

For me it is not fair because this was done only during withdrawal, whereby true AML/KYC measures by companies and payment processors happen AT the moment of transaction, which in casino cases is when users sign up. IF you must do kyc, it must be at account creation. This solves all these issues for you and for players.

Many thanks for the post Ronnie.

I searched for AML and KYC on your website, they are not mentioned even once. Also, there is no mention of which laws you conform to, of which country those rules apply to and what the procedure is for your AML and KYC. Before you ask for these ID verifications you must highlight them on your website so users know what they are getting in to.

You wrote: "To comply with AML laws we have to request ID. Any information we receive is kept for our own account security purposes and never disclosed to a third party. We also comply with all data removal requests as standard"

but there are issues with that statement. Please answer the following questions so some things could be clarified, thank you.

There is no information about what happens to withheld funds. Please explain.
There is no information about what makes you selectively freeze funds. Please explain.
There is no information about which legal jurisdiction you deal with and expect your customers to deal with. Please explain.
In which country/city is CB Holdings registered?
What is the full address of CB Holdings? Is it just a mailing address or is there an actual office with staff working there?
Who are the owners and shareholders of CB Holdings?

Finally you do not have GDPR so you are not EU compliant. GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) is a regulation in European Union law on data protection and privacy for all individuals within the European Union. These laws provide obligations of Right of Access and the Right to Erasure. These laws also covers obligations of collecting customer consent. GDPR laws affect all websites (including Cloudbet) that have users that are citizens from within the European Union regardless of those websites and their business owners being based in or out of the European Union. So whether your business is based or registered in Belize or Netherlands or anywhere else is irrelevant, you have to abide by GDPR laws because European Union residents are accessing the Cloudbet website. What do you intend to do to become GDPR compliant?

Ronnie, feel free to post here my entire betting history. You have my permission to do that. You can even post my picture here, or my full name and surname. I don't care. I don't know what betting integrity means, I don't know even if that phrase has any significant meaning which I doubt, but I have nothing to hide. I didn't bet big, I didn't bet any shady games, for Christ sake one third of my bets were on US Open, bets like overs and under in the first set.

Locking winning accounts isn't the right way to succeed in this business.

@4x4et As we have said multiple times before, there is no benefit to a Casino or Sportsbook refusing payments to legitimate players. It makes zero sense from a community and company perspective. You have been told exactly why KYC was requested in your case, and your $20 withdrawal was paid out after I escalated the situation to senior management.

@JollyGood The issue being referenced was addressed further back in the thread. The user had deposited then tried to withdraw without playing through any funds. To comply with AML laws we have to request ID. Any information we receive is kept for our own account security purposes and never disclosed to a third party. We also comply with all data removal requests as standard.

The other user has had their account frozen while an investigation takes place into betting integrity. Unfortunately i'm unable to comment on the ongoing investigation on public forums as it would be unfair on the players and a potential breach of data handling laws, but I am already in contact with the player via PM and will provide updates where possible.  

We were one of the first crypto Casino and Sportsbook operators out there, and have had a huge number of very happy customers since 2013. Reading back through this thread should show the lengths we are prepared to go to to help out with customer issues.

If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer, publicly or via PM.

Thanks very much,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

I will not be able to jump in here and say this project is a scam without investigating further but if what happened to the previous poster is true then that is sad. Many betting projects lock user accounts and ask for ID knowing they will never trust them enough to send them their ID.

As a rule, I would never send my ID to any of these websites who first hide their own identity themselves but expect others to send them theirs by blackmailing them. In many cases even after ID is sent they still do not release customer funds. I would never send my ID to any exchange either regardless of their "brand" and popularity because you have no idea what they will do with it once they have it!

As mentioned, I will not be able to jump in here and say this project is a scam without investigating further but hope the Cloudbet team will post here explaining their side of the story.

https://www.cloudbet.com/en/license

Cloudbet is a licensed bitcoin betting site by E-Gambling Montenegro.

E Gambling Montenegro d.o.o (Podgorica, Moskovska br. 65., reg. no. 50615951) hereby certifies that under the concession (serial no. AA 001588, numeric no. 133-01/15 5A i 1ERR) and approval (no. 02/02-118/4), organize and operate games of chance in Montenegro on website  in accordance with the Agreement on management and financial cooperation, concluded between E Gambling Montenegro d.o.o. and TIGER TREE HOLDINGS do.o.o (Cetinje, Njegoseva br. 97., reg. no. 50721755) TIN: 03035166 on 05 March, 2015 which is valid from 05 September, 2018 until 05 March 2019.

Cloudbet are committed to responsible gaming, and are dedicated to an enjoyable and positive bitcoin betting experience.

First of all you shouldn't send them your personal documents.

You don't even know who they are, they are hiding their own identity.

Second, you might say goodbye to your bitcoin, cause this is what happens regularly. If you win, they lock your account or refuse to pay out.

That's what I'm telling here for months now.

@JollyGood I'm not sure what you mean by plugin sorry, could you provide more details?

If you mean where we get our odds from i'm not entirely sure myself, but I can speak with our sportsbook teams about it and see if that information is allowed to be shared publicly.

Thanks,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet