Topic: Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon - page 12. (Read 35558 times)

Hit the ignore button dude, that guy's not just stupid he's actively trolling.

There must be a reason that KnC chose to put 4 dies on a chip instead of one big phat chip.  Presumably having one package with 4 dies on it, is cheaper to produce than 4 packages.   Also, if they had smaller chips, each of 25 GH performance... would anyone care?  the marketing impact sure looks good when everyone else has MH chips or at best a 4 GH chip and you come out of nowhere with a 100 GH chip!   that's a HUGE leap!  No comparison.   Would people have been blown away so much if they had only announced a 25 GH chip?  (even if the same total gigahashes were in a Jupiter box, made up of a higher number of lesser chips)

Wonder what cointerra's leap will be?

No, no, no, and again, no.

You're assuming a hell of a lot there and appear a little unbalanced. Twisting my words and misrepresenting my intention is fraudulent.

My reference to the banks fraud was sarcasm, but substantiated with fact that ironically (I did use that word before), both my main banks have been involved in the most atrocious acts of financial fraud in history.

Back to the point of this, before Cointerra can finally have their thread back;

I have undertaken more research than any typical consumer using a card from one of my banks.

I went in person and saw for myself the company exists and is capable of undertaking what it's claimed which is a hell of a lot more than most consumers do before pre-ordering a holiday with a travel agent etc.

I then rang my bank, explained the type of purchase in detail, the timescale and queried whether than was an acceptable purchase in their eyes and whether I would be eligible for their protection outside of Paypal's 45 days. I was ringing to see whether they would indeed uphold protection as I read that some banks claim indirect third party payment processors, such as Paypal and Amazon, negate their consumer protection policy. I recorded this, I advise others do the same, this is not fraud, it's common sense due diligence.

I'm not advocating fraud. I'm not ditching my purchase on my bank. I have every confidence KnC from what I saw will deliver, whether it is on time or not, then we'll see. I won't be throwing my toys out the pram over any reasonable delay. I haven't risked a huge amount in my eyes. I'm comfortable with then time and money I have spent on this. I would certainly never advocate fraud or getting into debt over this. If you still think any of this is fraudulent again speak to your bank. It's not. I'm a consumer making a purchase for a product to be delivered within a certain period of time. This is entirely legal. Before November is fine by me, afterwards I would feel the contract to deliver by a certain point to be broken. I can then request a refund. if KnC fail me, my bank has my back. I have no unrealistic aspirations. I also don't want to see people get burned, but they have to take responsibility to do their own groundwork, call their issuing bank, they can certainly visit Stockholm if they wish.

The fact that not one customer of Butterfly Labs, out of all that that purchased looked into this and still allow themselves to held hostage is utter madness. Personally I have always wanted to see Butterfly Labs succeed, as miners we deserve choice in products and price to remain competitive. Not one or two dominant centralised manufacturers. It's bad for Bitcoin, and bad for us.

Now let's please let Cointerra have their thread back, no doubt though this talk of consumer protection benefits their future customers as hopefully people will start to make informed choices, that does require them picking up the phone, listening to some generic music, waiting to speak to a knowledgable person in the institution they wish to bank with. This is sensible advise for anyone.

I am a local Austin resident.  I just shot off an email to them asking for a meetup.

Ill report back what I can if they dont make me sign an NDA.

Wow, when you guys start a new thread without all of the BS I may be interested.  This thread is useless at this point.

Nah, shouldn't be that hard to sue them.  We'll do it the same ol' way we handled Pirateat40 -- we'll rant all sorts of vengeance on these boards & wait for our parents the bankers to do something.  
BTW, what does KNC doing in this thread?  Are they on iffy terms with reality too?

Very excited about this!  I'd love to support a Texas-based ASIC company

I doubt it'll be that big of an issue,  KnC's refund policy is that you can ask for a refund at any time until they ship your unit. If they turn out to be a scam and violate their refund policy then it shouldn't be too hard to sue them, as we know who they are and Bitcoinorama and KnC are both in the EU.

Let's clear up a few more things:

The usurious fees charged by CC companies are *saintly* compared to percentages charged for bitcoin loans on this very forum.
Further, if you pay your bills on time, there *are no fees to you, the consumer.*  An equivalent to getting a free loan, for a month!  As they say, none better at twice the price.
I'd love to borrow BTC at those usurious rates -- anyone lending?


You're not undertaking fraud because there's a chance of delays.  You're undertaking fraud because you are investing, rather than pre-ordering, and hedging your bet with chargeback.  You attempt to justify doing this with the following:
1.  Your bankers are scumbags.
2.  That's what buyer protection is for in the first place.

If your banker's scamming justifies your scamming in turn, i have nothing but a sad inkling that they're better at scamming than you -- this all might end in tears.
If you think that buyer protection entitles you to make risky purchases & chargeback if things do not work out, you're simply wrong.  That is not its intended purpose.  
You seem to understand that what you're doing is not strictly legit, hence the "bankers are scumbags, they deserve it" defence (if not, what was your point?).
My point here is relatively benign, i'm not worried about the bankers, they can take care of themselves.  I am worried about the children & the feeble-minded who may believe that your scheme has legitimate merit, and through gullibility lose their money and/or get nailed for fraud.

Sure, but remember - at the time their only competition was BFL and they clearly defeated them.

I think the strategy could still work well.  The KnC chip, for example has four modules with 48 "engine IPs" each, and they are expecting to to use 250W or less.  The heatsink they're planning on using is supposed to be able to dissipate 320W of heat.

But lets say they're wrong and their chip actually ends up putting out 500w.

If each of the 4 engines was on a separate die, and putting out 125W each they'd have a much easier time figuring out a way to keep them cool.

If they split the chip up even more, putting, say 12 "engine IPs" on a chip, if they were twice their expected power output they'd only need to remove 30W of heat per physical package.

On the other hand, at a certain point you're going to drive costs up by requiring more transistors for communication, more complicated circuit boards and more money spent just on IC packaging.

I'm still wondering about the actual level of protection under section 75, given the Terms you accepted when you ordered stipulated it was a business sale and you admitted to be a business.

So, one of the two or both is/are acting in bad faith. You're acting in bad faith because you claim to do the trade as an individual (i.e. not a business) to be covered by S75 or a business (which you are not) to be able to buy from them (circumventing the Terms) and they're acting in bad faith because they don't want to offer the necessary security for private customers (and no warranty) - but this is more debatable.

Did you have a lawyer look it over? (apologies if it was mentioned already, TL;DR)

I'm going to look at the same question over here (different laws, different judges).

While your idea is good the example you cited doesnt help...  Avalon is a pretty rusty old chip now and no matter how many of them you put on a board, it doesnt get you a lot of performance and worse, it draws a huge amount of power (per GH).   A couple of watts each, for only a few hundred MH makes it a poor performer compared to these new generation of chips from Bitfury, KnC, hashfast and cointerra...

Avalon maybe was the early 2013 chip of choice... but as we head towards the back end of 2013, its going to be outgunned and outdated pretty fast.  Bitfury is a much better example of putting lots of cheap chips on a board to total some good hashing power, and thats the best example to date of the ant colony approach.  And its power consumption is excellent (especially so when you consider its 55 nm!)

But as you say, Hashpower/wafer and watts/GH are going to be the best ways for us to compare and contrast all of our mining asic options...  does anyone happen to have them all collated into one table?

Ok I know you troll, sometimes as in this thread actually providing substance at points.

But what don't you get about consumer protection and the usarious fees charged upon credit card purchases they encourage you to make?

I do have a huge amount of faith in KnC which is more than superficial as I've met everyone involved, and seen what they are capable of. Is there still inherent risk, of course. There could be a delay, but they will make and produce a chip capable of hashing.

Likewise, as this is the Cointerra thread, on paper these guys are credible, hopefully someone will visit. If I was to consider them I might take a jolly to Austin, sign an NDA (which for all intents and purposes is entirely worthless), and see what they are capable of.

To claim I'm undertaking fraud as I acknowledge there could be a delay is ridiculous, think of all the things you buy ahead of time. Credit cards are specifically marketed at protecting you for such purposes. That's not fraudulent use at all.

Now stop this, it's utterly pointless as I'm paying a real company to produce a real product they are more than capable of doing with a protected means of payment which I performed the due diligence in ensuring they were happy with me proceeding and protecting me for.

Perhaps instead of continuing this here you spend an hour talking to the fraud department of Amex and see what they say. What about all the tradespeople who may not deliver as promised? Sure they all like cash in hand, but you know full well you have recourse if you find a legitimate company that accepts card.

Simple solution would be to make a very small die.  You get the same hashpower/wafer, but you just spread them out on a large circuit board. That's basically how Avalon works.  240 small chips a couple watts each.

Also, click the ignore button on crumbs people, is is an idiotic troll.

Now that's just low!

Finally we get down to it:  You feel justified in scamming your banks because they deserve it -- they're scammers themselves.  
You're colluding with likely scammers to defraud the scammy banks.  Best of luck, but keep in mind that most confidence tricks rely on the mark believing he's not the mark, but a shrewd & cunning member of the crew  

Heh, that's actually been known to happen on the Spanish Costas.

Yippee, just in time for Christmas.
Santa's gonna ship ASICs.
nice.

Considering my two main banks are;

HSBC; Largest money laundering operation in the world for Mexican drug cartels, overseeing their banking needs for in excess of a decade.

Barclay's; Responsible for the largest ever exposed case of fraud in history. Frontrunning the price fixing of interbank lending rates with full compliance from the UK government.

Both in the billions, both laughable 'record' fines which amount to a paltry percentage of the profits they acquired throughout these activities.

Neither with any criminal prosecution to speak of, no jail terms. A couple of guys resigned with phat bonuses in a national newspaper sideline.

With that in mind the activities surrounding the sale of a few pre-order Bitcoin mining devices I doubt phases these banks. Any fraud an ASIC manufacturer attempts pails in comparison. They guys protecting such purchases are too big to fail after all...

Ironically, when you think about it, it's bittersweet no matter how risky, these guys are willing to absorb the risk associated with our escape from their fraudulent manipulation and grasp on our day to day perceived value of wealth!

The hotel room analogy is lolzy, but for slightly different reasons; i'll ftfy:

You call to book a hotel room to find out that there's no hotel yet -- there's only the contractor's kid, who's real clever with tools & swears up & down he'll build the hotel by the time you arrive.  His dad, who has built stuff before (cars, not hotels) promised to help him.
You go ahead and place the reservation -- if the place isn't there when you show up, the CC will cover it.  Death to bankers!