Topic: Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon - page 8. (Read 35551 times)

crickets 

I'd like to see cointerra's input on this.

If you are worried about watts/Gh then you won't be close to getting ROI.   You have to make the lion share of your ROI well before the % of paying for power vs mining returns per month becomes significant

Probably better to figure out how much watts per month you can use if you go solar and then just hunt down and add miners that other's sell on the cheap if you want long term hashing

W per GH/s is indeed the key

I'm considering to buy from you as well, but currently it I'm not sure whether KnC's 2nd Gen devices in march will make it unprofitable as they might beat your W per GH/s value.
As far as I know they were developing all the time in parallel this hardcopy for 1st Gen, as well as tuned custom design for 2nd Gen.
So they likely have started earlier in April/May and spent more time for development/testing/tuning and it will relase it later, therefore it is possible that their next gen might beat your values.

At the moment I have to accept a later queue-place for a better risk forecast, alternative in my eyes would be risking my investment for a better queue.

Yup that was primarily the one I was thinking of but was too lazy to find and link it.  Thanks.

Thanks for that, I'll check it out as well.

This might give you a raw idea of what to expect the upcoming months:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/estimate-of-asic-pre-orders-13-to-15-phs-diff-18b-to-21b-by-end-of-2013-283820

Thanks for that post. I'd like to hear more on this.

@Cointerra, I'm from Canada. I'd like to come down and visit you guys, check out the scene if possible. If all checks out, I'd like to buy a few.. starting with 5, or more. @Cointerra - Can you please PM me about this? I'm very interested.

Unfortunately it's all a guess right now.  We know that KNC's machine works and is shipping in bulk and that they will release another batch come November.  There are some decent threads in mining speculation sub-forum that try to estimate how much hashrate is coming online given the known manufacturers come through with their offerings. 

The problem is there are many factors in play:
- Will the competition release as much hashrate as they claim they will?
- Will Cointerra ship on time and within spec?
- Are there other "dark pools" of hashrate soon to go online?
etc.

Personally I think there is a reasonable chance that Cointerra's machine will not mine as many BTC as they cost.  Add in the opportunity cost involved in a pre-order and all the risks of a physical machine (delivered late, defective etc.) and I think it's a risky investment that should only be made with money you wouldn't mind terribly losing at least a portion of.

I think the hope with Cointerra is that their machine is more efficient than not only the current competition but also medium term future competitors.  Then as mining becomes less profitable there are less orders and global hashrate tapers off it's exponential increase and other machines drop out due to inefficiency and Cointerra is left marginally profitable for a long time before the next gen comes out and finally obsoletes them.  Looking that far in the future with any aspect of Bitcoin is definitely dicey though.

Sure these all might be factors for a handful of people here and there.  Interesting about the corporate budget angle, hadn't thought of that.

None of this really has much to do with my original point of the somewhat sneaky use of the word ROI in Cointerra's comment and it's possible effect on potential buyers though.

The fact there are some minority of purchasers that buy full well knowing they will likely not ROI, shouldn't give ASIC manufacturers carte blanche to make any claims they want.

A 550 GH Jupiter right now only earns 1 btc per day.  The next difficulty will drop that to less than 0.7 btc per day.

I shutter to think what 2TH will make by December and January.  That is many difficulty changes away.

Is there any way to predict what the hash rates will be in January when Cointerra is expected to ship these 1TH/s and 2TH/s units? I'm considering buying one, and I'm looking for reasons to either buy it, or not buy it. Please help me out here, I'm on the fence, and it's pretty painful. Should I expect that it's gonna be worth it? or not?

Cheers.

there are quite a few

one example would be group buys.  The one running the group buy, pads his ROI by providing the service and getting paid for that.  And many in the group may not want to deal with running a miner, or getting bitcoins through exchanges or wherever. Since they are small player, they look at it more like a fee to getting bitcoins, etc

And think of the people who get to fudge with corporate budgets..  have you been around big corp purchase orders?  You think it is hard to add $20,000 as 'blahblah servers' on a half million budget and then stash them somewhere in a datacenter for free electricity?  Do you know many of the things big corp buys do not even get out of the boxes they were shipped in?  Projects that die but items still bought?

Step back and see everyone who is in this game

The "other factors" seem to mostly be "BTC price might go up and I'll ROI" investment strategies. 

Not disagreeing with you about that being the point of selling miners, just giving them some advice that using disingenuous statements might turn off some potential customers.  Then again maybe they'll trick more people than they'll lose.  In the end it's their call which approach to take but those types of comments will definitely give me a pause when considering a purchase from them. 

I'd rather see a marketplace of manufacturers offering honest bad investments rather than using duplicitous language to rope dummies in.

that's the whole point of selling miners..   If they bothered to do all this on their own dime, and mine until they have to shut them off, they would probably come out negative as well.

Since they get to sell everyone the dream, up front, they get their ROI.

And we already had one company (ASICminer) that was able to do same day orders, but you saw that the true price of mining is more than the much bandied about mantra of 'get more BTC than you spend' ROI.

So surely there are other factors out there that drive up the price that people still will pay for miners that will not produce the same BTC they paid.  Many many reasons for that and not only 'because they are dumb and don't know how to use genesis block calc'

You might want to qualify this statement.  If you mean to say that you believe most of your customers will have a long period of mining where the electricity cost to mine a BTC is lower than he cost to buy on an exchange then you aren't really addressing whether or not your customers will "ROI" on their investment in your product (i.e. Mine as much BTC or more as they spent to purchase the gear).

I'd suspect most of your potential customers (me included) aren't very interested in how long they can make a cent a day but whether or not they will end up making money over the life of machine vs what they spent.

This is a bit of a trick question though as you shouldn't attempt and can't tell your customers how profitable they will be as there are factors involved outside your control.  My advise is to avoid making responses of this nature whatsoever as it comes across as naive at best and disingenuous or fraudulent at worst.

It is our belief that offering high hash-rate at lowest possible power consumption will be profitable until 3rd Gen ASIC, due to the fact that at a certain point only the miners with the lowest power consumption per GH/s will be able to provide ROI.

Thus less profitable miners will to a large extent stop mining and difficulty will adjust to a point where just as it was true for CPU/GPU and soon Gen 1 ASIC profitability will be assured only with the latest generation of ASIC miners.

Since the TerraMiner series will lead the Gen 2 ASIC technology race when it comes to hash power per kW/h we believe our customers will enjoy ROI for quite some time.

This is true provided the batch "with the highest hash-rate/power consumption ratio" is delivered quickly as a whole, with the batch size being limited to a reasonable quantity.

BFL messed up in this regard in both respects. They delivered their queue slowly, thereby leaving most reward to those at the start of the queue. They also oversold their single batch at two stages of pricing, knowing that those at the end of the queue would never see a return.

Your statement may prove true for some of your customers, but can you guarantee it for all?

1. We are very much 'legit' and have an office in Austin as listed on our website. We have recently had several people drop by our office to say hello and meet our team.
2. Without speculating in exact BTC output, it stands to argue that whoever mines with the highest hash-rate/power consumption ratio will see ROI for quite some time as older and less profitable miners leave the network. Of course Diff cannot exponentially increase past what any hardware can profitably mine, as was seen when GPU made CPU mining obsolete and now with ASIC making GPU mining obsolete.

The mock-tape out is already made and we will be taping out shortly. Everyone can expect reports closer together in the near future as we get closer to chip production and other major events. We are still very much on track for our presented delivery time.