Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists - page 20. (Read 25293 times)

But so far, by your own admission, god has only done mirracles that can occur in nature. I.e. he only did things that can happen naturally, anyway. So how can we be sure that it was god who did those things, and that they didn't just happen naturally?

Can you explain this, using normal every-day words? Because this never made any sense, and thus never really did anything other than confuse people, and very likely make them ignore whatever you were saying out of fear of sounding stupid, or out of assumptions that you are as weird as dank with his random definitions.

Ahh.  I have actually gotten into some heated discussions with other Christians about this.  Many Christians have this idea of an "age of accountability."  That concept is nowhere in scripture but they think that there is an age in which we are accountable and before that we are not and it is like a free pass to heaven.  My logic was if that is true we should not cry if a baby dies but rejoice.  We should be the most pro-choice people on earth because all the babies go straight to heaven.

But of course I do not believe that.  It goes back to the discussion we have had on other threads.  I believe everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Jesus.  If not on this earth, in Sheol (which the Bible talks about in many places) and babies would go there as well.

I believe that we each have a plan on this earth that God has for us.  If we accept His plan there are great things to accomplish for good in this world.  I would not want to lose a child, not just because of the pain of missing him/her, but because the child would miss out on more opportunities to do great things.  But God's timing in our death and our life is beyond our understanding.

What if I can?


But you can have yourself sporadically emerging as a product of physical laws, if you were not the one who designed those laws to begin with, and if those laws simply existed as a natural part of our universe.

Miracles are a complicated thing.  I was just trying to point out that by my observation of God doing miracles that I have seen and heard about, He appears to use the natural things as much as possible:  Doctors if they are available etc.  Could God just grow a limb from nothing? Personally I believe He can do all things.  He could grow a liver too.  But this is more a discussion of why and when God chooses to do miracles which is really beyond me.  There are some things that I don't understand myself, and miracles are one of them for sure!

We all should be worried about Hell.

Seriously, why not save yourself from all the waiting and suffering, and just stop eating and drinking, s you can ascend as soon as possible? It shouldn't take more than 3 days. Or you can use that same method to prove that you are god, by forcing yourself to continue to exist without food or water. It can't be much harder than making your car drive on empty by sheel will, and damage from lack of water isn't worse than damage from cancer that you cured. Just stop eating and drinking, and quantum cure yourself every few days, and the worst that will happen is you will ascent to the 5th dimension really quick.

Or do you not actually have any of these powers you claim you do?

I'm more worried about your belief in hell than anything else.

Well you can refine then that "in imagination land everything that is logical is possible", then what you will arrive at is that your model of the universe is illogical. Isn't that sufficient enough?

In your imagination land, why do you imagine that I can not imagine a physical law governing my ability to design a universe with only physical laws including one which allows me to do just that?  Or even to imagine new logical rules, everything is possible, yes?  Even contradictions could be imagined if I needed one, which I never would, as I could simply imagine that it wasn't one. (see what my imagination did there?)

This is trivially easy since in the logic of this world, we have the principle of explosion, a logical rule that from a false premise one can deduce anything, and we started from "Assume that in imagination land everything is possible."  From such a start, the only thing which can be false are limits on truth, as it can be infinitely stretched.

We are traipsing into Voltaire's Candide, the best of all possible worlds.  Your formulation is consistent.  It is not false so much as circular.

Mathematical proof of boundary of a boundary = 0, and the sameness-in-difference principle, lead us to understand that we are fundamentally inseparable from the rest of the Real Universe.

Thus, when we observe the Real Universe, it means that part of the Real Universe is observing itself.  You could say that consciousness is self-referential.

So, when god "creates people," what you get are stratified "pieces" of global consciousness.  This is why we perceive time as linear...we are stratified and localized to particular swaths of spacetime.  In contrast, the mind of god observes everything in perfect superposition where things like freedom and constraint (structure...determinism) are counterbalanced.

There is no tautology here. Simple logic. Assume that in imagination land everything is possible. Then it is very easy to demonstrate, that you cannot imagine the universe guided by physical laws alone, which would give birth to you (it is important point, not just any abstract universe, but the one which has you in it), because you are already the one imagining it in the first place. Do you follow? You can't have both - yourself sporadically emerging as product of physical laws and yourself designing those laws to begin with, it leads to contradiction.



You don't have to invent anything. The power of the paradox is that it's the only thing that has substance to it. Statements that are logically true or false are static and in that sense are dead. Conclusions like A leads to B and B leads to C are transitory, they are paths of creation. The paradox is a living energy, it is the engine of creation, the perpetuum mobile of a kind. It can never settle.

By giving people a free will, God attempts to create a condition, where it begins facing the limits of its power. If we consider two equal opposites - positive and negative, then having a free will to choose between the two makes the whole thing slightly more positive, because having choice is a "good" thing. Therefore by giving choice, positive (or God) paradoxically becomes the greater attractor, and that gives creation it's momentum, that sets things in motion, so to speak.

Another way to say this, is that God loves you so much, that it allows you to think and witness, that you are not loved at all.

There is no tautology here. Simple logic. Assume that in imagination land everything is possible. Then it is very easy to demonstrate, that you cannot imagine the universe guided by physical laws alone, which would give birth to you (it is important point, not just any abstract universe, but the one which has you in it), because you are already the one imagining it in the first place. Do you follow? You can't have both - yourself sporadically emerging as product of physical laws and yourself designing those laws to begin with, it leads to contradiction.

Are you kidding me,this is ultra trolling....

Because it involves the creation of matter rather than healing something that can be fixed easier.  Just cause nobodies done it doesn't mean it's impossible.

Vod, I'm still waiting for your reply to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-J7cnUV28Q

Why would you do something so cruel as interfere with God's plan to possibly try to send your children to heaven sooner???

What if someone has lost a liver? That is kind of like a "limb." And without it, a person will die within a matter of days. How come there are no records of any humans ever regrowing or restoring any lost body parts, and why is that more "unnatural" than cancer cells and tumors just "disappearing."

Yes, as well as population growth.

Yes, these are all the places with the least education.  In countries with high education you see religious beliefs plummet.

Absence of government != societal shut down

Absence of government == complete natural freedom

Absence of government == world peace

Absence of government == heaven

in that order.