Topic: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) - page 58. (Read 632720 times)

The proposal to merge CKG with CON is similar. S-HODL would following such a merger be holding a single asset, and may or may not itself continue to be necessary depending on the nature of the new asset (I suppose automatic and passive dividend reinvestment will continue to be a useful purpose).

Three market questions: What gives us the highest book value, what gives us the most liquidity, and what gives us the largest growth going into the future?

Ck to my mind, is a way for cc investors to swap devolving assets for cash in the form of XMR, if they want to hold and trade game assets, they should be given every opportunity, but it should be our job to make sure that CK remains slightly ahead of XMR as a means of profit--there must be proven companies in the network to create surplus value in the form of entertainment and service--without these, XMR rises and we sink.

PGC is a prime example of what we need, if we can attach CON pairs of devaluing assets to gambling, while keeping it within the confines of video game regulation, that's a gold-mine.

Another thought would be to attach quests with actual crowd funding--my earlier post about the search for The Book of Thoth could be an actual crowd sourcing for an achelaogical dig in Cairo--money may make the game intense, but reality makes it real.

Counties should be incentivized with franchise markets, such as exclusive rights that can be passed on to further land dispersals, via open source platforms. This is a franchise and all revenue sources should be shared and creative compettion should create augmentation and lasting appeal through DIY commerce.

I think this basic agenda fufils free market obligations by leveraging libertarian ideals into the reality of changing regulations.

As the 3rd largest holder, I have difficulty choosing between the generous proposals of the largest and the second largest, so I will abstain from voting, as long as 100 mil minimum is donated.

This also serves as an example for other companies that have excess liquidity. Of course it is not expected that a small company would donate as much as the mighty PGC, but the culture of donation and helping out has always been in CK and is one of the reasons it has weathered out the storms so far.

The starting balance was 600m if I recall correctly, not 200m. It has been whittled down by repurchasing tokens from players, so even after gold dividends and game revenue it has lost 107m. As CEO of this company, I do not think that giving out 200m of palazzo corp funds is in the best interests of this company. We have yet to pay a dividend to all shareholders, and it is well past due--investors need something for building the company. So if the decision is based solely on what the CEO believes will help the company, I vote no for this proposal.

On the other hand, I have compassion on a personal level, and as one of the largest shareholders (if not the largest) with 2800 shares, I would consider donating 100m to PJ of the company funds. I would also ask the shareholders of other corporations to follow suit with similar proposals if they have any spare funds. There is no reason PGC needs to be the only company that donates.

Search for The Book of Thoth

Prince Crichton decided to take the Summer to find an a ancient manuscript he had heard about from traders traveling up the Southern roads from a vast desert known in its tribal tongue as Akh-Bar', he heard strange tails of Red Winds so potent that Great Kings would march armies against it, and magic so ancient that it survived the decimation of Egypt and still conquered men's souls. It was from that great history that Crichton heard of The Book of Thoth.



It is said that when the local winds
speak the ancient symbols of Thoth
our souls anneal to natural Fin
that nature endears herself
and man's consciousness inspects
unfolds as dew drops in rivers unfurled
her story told as rippling rivulets
gather more ethereal dispersal
unending in universal caveat
that speaks the Land's reversal
whispering it's unwise to package
in the clucks and clicks Eternal
the mood of a single day
for in time, we must pay

Crichton could not bear to let such Magic go wasted in the sands of time and set out to find The Book.

Can't we just convert everything to S-HODL and have a buy back or smelting program for gold items? I think maintaining the liquidity that one asset gives you lessens the burden on government procedures and increases the overall value of the game.

@Smooth, please chime in as I think S-HOLD's ratio will be of interest here.

Personally, I'd like to see some land thrown in here as well, to provide a mechanism for land swaps, but that's because I own a lot--so there's your caveat--though this might be a good time to hammer out separation of powers--I'm American this is what I'm used to ( I believe a populace should be armed and have TPTB in a constant state of fight, consider, and compromise). CAN as an equity item may also be an interesting consideration.

@YM, ATM I have no objection to your proposal, but want to hear more and know all the details as it effects governance.

@ArticMie, all the numbers make this tricky to read, my main concern would be getting the ratio right, and making sure no one was left out as far as the power distribution. Also, what specifically motivates CK holders to dilute their power in the near to mid-term (long term is fine).

First I will comment that I consider this proposal a perfectly viable solution to the current financial situation of CK. I do believe however that it can be improved upon in a way that respects the Crypto Kingdom social covenant regarding the fixed amount and permanent nature of CKG, and does not destabilize the collectible or unique value of items with embedded CKG, such as weapons, jewelery, commemorative coins, etc.  

My suggestion would as in the proposal above convert CON to a new asset CK. CK asset holders would receive all governance powers in the proposal with the exception of the voting on basic rules changes power indicated below, and a fixed proportion of the equity. Given the priority of CON over CKG a figure of 90% of the equity is not unreasonable here. The balance of the equity 10% would go to the current CKG holders. This equity ratio between CK and CKG would remain constant  unless amended by under the process for changing the basic rules below

The differences between CK and CKG would be as follows:
1) CK holders hold a vote on the operation of Crypto Kingdom while CKG holders do not.
2) CK individual holders are subject to dilution while CKG individual holders are not. The way this would work is that the proceeds from the   issuance of new CK would go into the general CK / CKG pot but the CK holders would bear the entire burden of the dilution. In effect the CKG holders levy a 10% tax on the proceeds from the issuance of additional equity. New equity issuance would only require the approval of the CK holders via their representatives as in the proposal.  
3) CKG holders would retain all other rights they currently hold (for example rights to ennoblement)

Dividends, priority and dissolution.
1) Dividends are first divided 90% CK 10% CKG and then divided proportionally among each group with equal priority
2) Upon dissolution the net assets less liabilities are first divided 90% CK 10% CKG and then divided proportionally among each group with equal priority.

CKG
1) The total amount of CKG remains constant as is currently the case.
2) CKG embedded in items is treated the same as CKG in bullion from for the purposes dividends voting on  etc.
3) All CKG in bullion form is converted to a single unit of GKG 0.01 CKG or lower. For example a 100 GKG bar becomes 10000 units of CKG. The idea is to create a single liquid market for CKG. CKG embedded in items is left untouched.

CK
1) CK is divided into units equivalent to 0.0001 CON. Again the idea is create a more liquid market.

Basic rules (constitutionl) changes
1) All changes to the basic rules require a 75% super majority of the CK holders and a 75% super majority of the CKG holders.

Comments. The key difference is the initial 90% / 10% CK (former CON) split and the 10% effective tax on the issuance on new equity in favor of the CKG holders. I do not consider the 90% / 10% to be cast in stone and more a subject for discussion; however for this work there has to be strong incentive for the CK holders to issue new equity. Furthermore this has to reflect a rational action of the CON holders to not take all the equity in order to preserve the "goodwill" value of the the other assets in Cypto Kingdom. The idea is that CKG would likely trade at a premium to CK because it is not subject to dilution, yet enjoys the same proportional financial benefits (dividends and dissolution value) as CK. This would mean that CK holders get a higher initial dividend rate that is subject to dilution while CKG holders get an intial lower dividend rate that is not subject to dilution.

Crichton: 335 shares (support donation)

PGC shareholder proposal:

As a large CKG investor in Palazzo Gaming Corp, I noticed we have accumulated a fair amount of CKG dividends. The current M balance of PGC is at 493 mil. Based on my calculations from the changelog, PGC has earned 454,847,180 m on dividends since 1630 alone (did not calculate further).

I propose that PGC donates 200 mil to PJ to assuage his negative balance. It was an unfortunate misunderstanding, and no one could foresee the consequences of what would happen.

I don't believe this will be detrimental at all to the operations of PGC, when it was active I recall a starting balance of 200 mil or so. Furthermore, I believe it will do much more good in lifting the morale of our Kingdom's developer. Let's show our support for him!

If other PGC shareholders agree, please cast your votes in support of this proposal.

Saddam: 1,529 shares
Riddick: 240 shares

1769/10000 S-PGC in support of donating 200 mil to PJ (143).

Please others also express your views! Especially important this is from players who own significantly more of one or the other. My holdings (excluding Coinshop) are almost exactly even percentage (28% of CKG and 26% of CON), so I have no selfish reason to favor one side over the other.

What guides me is the long term success of the game, and the aggregate market cap of all the game items, as a proxy of the success. As of this writing, CON and CKG are valued 35,000 XMR each.

Holders of S-CKG S-CON and S-HODL are welcome to express their views on this reorganization proposal to me which I will express as administrator of the indirect holdings of those tokens. Failing that I will remain neutral for the time being, and I am neutral with respect to any other holdings I directly or indirectly control.

Sunday is workday in CK, and Monday will be as well. After those, 2 days will pass with not much action from my side.

I managed to draft a proposal for a merger of CKG and CON (as per previous post). It got mostly positive initial feedback. Please note that matters of this importance are not made haphazardly or in a day. On the other hand, if the proposal enjoys the support of both majorities, there is no rule nor reason to delay it so that it hinders the development of the game. The Town is not in a position of being forced to default. The proposal is there for the reason that if CKG and CON will both become primarily instruments of speculating if, when, and how Town will default, this is a very unfortunate basis for continuing the game and is in nobody's interest. If the rules allowed a peaceful merger, that would be proposed. But this would require 100% of votes, so is not possible. Breaking the rules, on the other hand, should be avoided if the situation at all can be handled within the rules.

The energizing effect of the merger would be that we could unpause the time and let the dividends roll again. The money in the Town coffers could revitalise the economy, instead of being hostage to possible future need to pay CON payments, which would be rational to postpone as long as possible. Instead of getting more entangled to this web, let us break free from it!

The "market war" to determine the conversion rate is only one idea. We can be dull and negotiate it, or you propose something!

Dr.C deserves a special mention for helping PJ in his troubles. Actually no one else has helped him  I did explain the situation yesterday, everything counts!

Dr.C gets 2000*RAF-4 for this. Other contributions are:
Roopatra 100
Syksy 100
saddam 100
Crichton 100
smooth 100
These are for postings, commenting and market actions.

Well, fuck, I have not removed my buy orders, so when the price halved, my acc is -193 XMR

I vocalized my thoughts and concerns at the IRC, so I'll post them here as they'll inevitably be otherwise buried in a mound of IRC logs. I am yet to grasp all nuances of the proposal above, but here is the background and what I wrote:

My background:
I mainly like the above proposal and and want to emphasize that I value the time and effort HM and other major holders are putting into solving this.
I am (in a priority order):
1) An aspiring game/software developer/artist
2) A gamer
3) An investor
That being said, you can see that investing being in 3rd position I am the type of person who does not engage that actively in this conversation, albeit it'll of course affect my gameplay drastically as well.

Also:
- I own 2,5k CKG (out of which 1k is "historical" CKG of collective value which is hard to evaluate, such as coins from 1400s, honorary gifts from HM etc; and 1,5k being in bare bars)
- I own 10 CONs
- I own 10k+ land, and this was my main focus and I was extremely eagerly waiting for the construction module ever since I started approximately one year ago.

My IRC (censored lines that were responses or related to other topics), possibly vocalizing some concerns for us "gamer"-CK'ers:


I acknowledge that I bring up multiple topics that are not related to converting CKG and CON into CK, but as a mathematician I always see all things inter-connected, which is why I always bring such complex networks up (which do make discussions unnecessarily even harder, I apologize for that).

Marquess of the Maple Leaf out

A possible way to remove unnecessary insecurity from the game


TL;DR

Let's merge CON and CKG, so that the market decides in which proportion their holders are awarded a new token "CK", which is Town votes, ownership and dividend token. This will cause Town to become debt-free and we have a very liquid token to invest in. Simplicity gains back the value that we have lost because of uncertainty. With excessive torture of the rules, this is not even a fork (just a default), and simple majority suffices.


Preface

For a few days I have been trying to find the solution to our two main challenges - human resourcing, and financial stability. Inspired by ArticMine and his analytical and resourceful thinking and suggestions, I have now outlined one possibility to remove unnecessary insecurity in the latter. It of course relates to CON. The point of view I am now taking is both systemic and owner perspective.

The systemic perspective is that CON has become a gamble on the timing of default, whereas its proper role is a perpetuity. This erodes the Town's possibility to raise funding through it. Raising more funding at a 50% fixed real-annual rate increases the chance of default and makes people less willing to pay for CON, creating a vicious circle.

The owner perspective is that CON owners usually invested large sums, and did it in the assurance that CK has a good chance to continue. Even more than CKG owners, the CON owners need to ensure the continuity. There are no hopes of big windfalls in either dividends or value appreciation. The only determinant of success is the perpetual stream of small payments, and CON does not even give any lever to ensure it (no council votes).

Despite that CON market cap until recently was only a fraction of that of gold (about 1/10...1/5), it is likely that the actual sums invested into CON are larger than those invested into CKG. The CKG had been fully created over the first few real-months of the game, and large parts of it were allocated against a small payment. Why I open up this matter, is to give perspective to what kind of people invested in CON.

Now the original role of CON is questioned, and CON is no more the vehicle to invest if you are a conservative investor who favors small but secure returns, which compound nicely over the long, if not perpetual, life of CK. These investors would not invest in CON in this environment, as it has become too risky and volatile. They would also not invest in CKG, which is in the risk of losing all just because of debt payments that are denominated in a mercilessly potent currency.

Without a way to appeal to this kind of investors, we will certainly suffer. We are not a hobby project any more, we increasingly need to be able to accommodate investors. Due to the default risk, turning both the values and the roles of the main investments, CKG and CON, upside down, the whole investment atmosphere will soon (if not already) degrade to betting on our own default.

I cannot personally function very well in that kind of situation, because my decisions (or lack thereof), have inordinate weight in timing of the possible default, and nobody else can function very well either, if they believe I am scheming to time it to my benefit. CK absolutely does not need this kind of spirit. We had fun enough in the good old days without having debts and defaults, (and when men were men and horses were horses and ships - well we did not have them, but we had swords, and lazy servants lost their ears and thieves their noses..)

So, the blessed and blissful interplay between CON and CKG is lost, because the investors cannot anymore fully trust in their roles. Instead of 2 interesting and worthy investment alternatives, we now have none.

Luckily, if even a dead dog can be turned to money if its ownership is settled first, also this CK problem can be remedied. CK is after all not a dead dog but a functioning gaming platform with 2 year history, 500 accounts, $100k in town account and much more in players', only debt is inside the game, and the 24/7 self-hosted active markets show that the aggregate market cap despite the carnage is still more than EUR 1 million.

Solution

A further consolidation in Town (and hence CK) ownership is needed to remove the uncertainty. Special importance is given to find a way that conforms with the rules to the extent possible, ensures the way forward and satisfies everyone in the practical level, giving those who are not satisfied, a market-driven way to cash out in the atmosphere of nice liquidity (and their counterparties buying more, etc.).

Please note at this stage that I have not talked about this to any of the councillors even, and this is not any proposal that I am fixated on and will push at any cost. It is just an idea. I literally got this just 3 hours ago when walking outside in the sun (now it's raining again so I got lucky).

First the Town Council decides to default on CON, announcing publicly that they will not be paid anything from now on. According to the interpretation of our rules, which was not challenged when published some time ago,


If there is a default on CON, the holders of CON will decide about the future collectively, but no consensus needed. In practice, 51% suffices unless otherwise decided. (Nothing has been decided by the Town Council of CON holders yet, because it has not convened, and does not have any power since CON has not been defaulted.)

So now the "CKG-council" becomes mean. Unwilling to see their ownership and votes go, they empty the kitty. To the last penny. After all, the default looks more convincing if there is no money at all in the coffers.

If the money would actually be dealt as CKG-dividends, it would seriously hamper the future of the game. This kind of trickery might even paralyse it altogether. So it is a good bargaining chip when the "CON-council" has its first meeting. The CKG-council says:

- We have taken all the money from town before the default. It is in a separate account, owned by us CKG holders. You have received the right to make rules by virtue of the default, but you don't have any money. We can return the money to you against a share in the pie. How about a split according to the following scheme:
* In the future, there is only one Town ownership token, let's call it "CK".
* Since CON was defaulted upon, all CON will automatically become CK. There is no need to ask this from anyone. CK is just a new name for "CON that was defaulted upon, and has become Town stock".
* Since CON was defaulted upon, everything that the new council decides to grant to CKG holders in excess to "becoming a limited-quantity luxury/collectible resource" is just a bonus, and the receivers (CKG holders) likewise do not need to be consulted.
* This allows the new council to pay in CK to redeem back the money that the gold holders had in hostage.
* The conversion rate need to be determined. The whole thing became necessary when the trust in CON was broken. The CON price prior to the events was on average 20.0 XMR. If it still retained that price, nothing would be wrong, and CKG would still own 100% of Town. The lower the price of CON, the higher the market perception of the likelihood of default, and the more the CON-owner will receive of the final pie, with the formula:

% share of CK allocated to CON owners = [20.0 - X] / 20.0    // X = CON midprice during determination

- So a lower price of CON during the determination period causes CON-holders to grab more of the pie. Unintuitive at first but as you think it through, it carefully ensures that all incentives are correct and the market will find a balance since nobody can push the price even close to either end. The price of CKG does not matter in the allocation. Their share will be the rest. The incentives cause large holders of one but not the other balance their holdings in the markets (because if you have a lot of CON, dumping it will actually cause you to own more of the result, and if you have a lot of CKG, buying some CON will increase the price of CON and therefore the value of your remaining CKG holdings). The process causes much liquidity to the markets, which is needed since the merger is such important and this way nobody can say the conversion rate was unfair.

The somewhat tricky sequence of events, is instrumental to avoid requiring 100% acceptance from either CON or CKG holders, and preserve the spirit of the game, and not break the rules, (unless going broke is, as such, against them).

Assuming that the midprice were 10.0 mil/CON, this causes CON owners to receive half of CK and CKG owners will get the other half.

Since we have 1,000,363 CKG, it makes sense that they get 1 (or some even number) of CK each. The CON that are only 5500 units, will get equally many, so each CON would be converted to 181 CK. If the midprice of CON indeed were 10.0 mil, this would cause CK to be priced at 55,250 m. And since 1 CKG = 1 CK in value, that would correspond to HM02B100 price of 5.5 mil.

The CON would disappear as they are mutated to CK. The items made of gold would stay (stripped of their dividends and votes) and the CK would be a spinoff for the gold holders.

This can be made happen with 3/6 councillors incl mayor or 4/6 without, plus a simple majority of CON holders.

I tried to express the legalities, technicalities and some of the benefits. But as usual, it is done in my clumsy language. Feel free to ask, comment, approve and disapprove.

Yes. Therefore, in this case, what is fair (sticking to the promise to tax the land) may have to yield to what is good for the future (Town restructuring the future tax to a heavily discounted lump sum and offering people to retain their lands, unburdened of taxes).

I won't be selling--other than my cursed sword and country club, those are my most cherished investment.

I'll repost this here:

If anyone wants to be included in the auction, GIVE your shares to smoothQC. Any shares so GIVEn will be relisted on the market (details tbd) at a declining price until fully sold. Proceeds will be divided proportionately among participants. Submitting period will be open for 24 hours from this post.

By "tbd" there, I meant and mean, starting price and rate of decline. I had no idea of the state of the market and I still don't. Presumably others don't either, which in part explains the need for an auction. So when the time comes to list shares I will determine appropriate details.

I don't plan to participate. I'm (both directly and via various entities) the largest shareholder of smoothQC. Any action on my part would be a major restructuring. By contrast, I see this auction as being a convenient way for smaller shareholders who wish to liquidate/exit to do so.

Call for shares will reopen for 24 hours.

I was pretty much a noob when those purchases were made, so I likely hadn't read the endless posts detailing complicated finance schemes, and did not even know of a tax (let alone a permanent tax that would not adjust to XMR pricing--I'd be stupid to buy with that knowledge). So when you say it's good for the game long term, are you accounting for new investor sentiment as people realize the games motto is, "Buyer beware of Risto's convoluted rules and use of town force." I'm pretty sure that is not good for the game long term.

The tax will not be adjusted, because it was discounted in the purchase price. (Others paid 1000 per chap, which also would be big $$ now.)

But, part of the whole deal here (to benefit building and land owners since the earmarked funds in the system have increased in value) is that the back taxes do not need to be paid. For just 5 years, it would amount to 52.5 mil per chapelry, which is clearly too much, and in the future, paying 10.5 mil each week is likewise too much. The profit potential of this land is not that high.

So the clearcut solution we offer, to stop bleeding, is that Town just takes all land that the owner specifically does not want to retain (and pay exorbitant taxes).

OF COURSE, my brain is working overtime to find ways out of these plights caused by the revaluation. My moral compass is to satisfy the following conditions and in this order:

1. What has been promised.
2. What ensures continuity and future.
3. What is fair.

Since it is fair that the tax-burdened lands are taken, but it does not break any specific promise if they are not, the deciding factor in my thinking is which outcome is better for the future.