Topic: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) - page 61. (Read 632720 times)

Time is approaching... what will happen?

Will be a good time to pick up some bargins I think.  If you believe...

Note that all bids and asks will be cancelled prior to the markets opening.
If you want to sell something, and had set an order, you will need to set it again.

Also, time itself does not restart yet. This means no aging, no health challenge, no end of year change.

Markets will open at 3 pm. That is = 1:40 hours!


Treasury will open probably tomorrow. We have improved withdrawal security a lot meanwhile.

Everyone please make market commentary to this thread as if it was a Speculation thread. Let's fill it!

This is the most exciting day so far in the CK Marketplace (well perhaps after the day when CKG started trading = 2014-10-16).

FTFY

Town Council is now in continuous working mode, having slack and IRC workrooms

We need to define the CEO deal well to maximize success. Every team member is very important! We can even use a consultant to help in the process. But hopefully the initial definition will be ready today 

Couldn't agree more. I think the CEO's main focus should be on an exchange currency and marketing to new users and investors--as well as implementing the Council's vision.

Has there been a time/date set for Town Counsel? Work sometimes interferes with CK commitments, so the earlier I know the sooner I can adjust my schedule.

Glad the game is on! Can I promote the CEO offer on twitter? Or are we waiting until after the next meeting to move forward on that front?

  I will promise to post a pic in the Billboard when we get the market open for real. 

Due to several small things market opening is postponed till tomorrow.

Shame that we don't have the tokens listed in exchanges now. Betting live on the valuation of CK in its critical junction is waaay more fun than pumping some unchanging and valueless altcoin!!! 

I can't wait to get back into the game. A 2 month hiatus is about as much as I can take

I actually don't see why CKG value should fall

Since the beginning of times, CKG is tied to XMR, it has nothing to do with FIAT

All that can push down its value is if people decide to sell their CKG

However, if we held so far, why would we sell now?


Crypto Kingdom has more assets, and value then every before!

I seriously don't see why I would sell now, if I held everything I had so far, when CK had less?

We have a bigger chance to become greater then we had before, the Kingdom has a lot more money to invest in the game, programming, marketing, basically everything a game should need

Crypto Kingdom has a future, I know I am not very active, but I believe in it  





 

Councilman Luigi reporting in.

The plan is to open trading but leave the time paused, correct?

Gamemaster (GM) is the head of admins when the game proceeds normally. In special situations like now (the time and market is paused), GM is the one to practically execute Town Council decisions concerning changes in game state and operation. GM is of course me, currently, but that will change soon when the TC rolls out its plan for new recruiting.

The plan is to find a CEO to steer the whole CK project, enabling me to concentrate on the game. We seek to pay her $70-$130k a year (figure includes perks). In return we get an enthusiastic professional.

Town finances need to be organised, because it is likely that both CKG and CON get smashed when the markets open (because the pricing currency, M, has appreciated by 5x while the game has been paused). CON entitles to a fixed payment of M, and in the case that the game goes on, it can be honored. If not, then not. It is nevertheless possible that the Council will propose something to decrease the Town burden.

Also in connection with the new CEO, new funding is needed to ensure a smooth transition. About $100k is the figure.

We also talked about the seniority of CKG/CON in the edge cases. My interpretation (which is subject to overruling by TC, who are selected by gold owners) is:
* CON is senior to CKG in dividends. CON dividend may not be reduced from its fixed value or delayed. The loophole concerning the rate of passage of time exists, but its use will cause loss of confidence. The only limitation concerning CKG dividend, is that it may not be negative. It has often been zero.
* CKG is senior to CON in voting rights. As long as the CON dividends have been paid, the CON holders do not have a direct influence on Town finances. The Town finances are an intricate web of pools that collectively contain $120k worth of M. Seldom if ever has the Town possessed several years' worth of un-earmarked liquidity to pay its expenditure, including CON dividends. Now it does, and when the game resumes, it will also get incomes in addition to the $120k in possession and the $100k to be raised. Therefore the comparison of Town funds and CON dividends fails in at least 3 counts: A)The Town funds are only partly intended for CON; B)Town has income and has managed previous situations; C)The dividends go back to the economy. What actually matters is the balance of deposits/withdrawals.

If it so happens that the game time is resumed, and the Town cannot subsequently pay the CON dividends, the default procedure is as follows:
* CKG loses the dividend and voting rights, becoming a limited-quantity luxury/collectible resource.
* CON holders will get 1 vote per CON, from where they can appoint the Council and continue the game as they wish. This is considered a default for the 1st Town Corporation, but it need not affect the game more than the CON holders decide. (It is likely that the CON holders will redefine CON to have  a variable dividend as they are unable to pay a fixed dividend to themselves anyway. CON would effectively take the place of CKG.)

Resuming the time requires an itemised action plan by the TC, and finding the CEO and other things mentioned.



All bids and asks will be cleared first because of the pleasure that XMR/M price has raised 505% during our pause so far.

The reasoning for opening of the markets was elaborated in a previous post. Enabling deposit/withdrawal and repricing caused by the rise of M.

I will provide marketmaking to some extent, based on what is expected. While being GM,King etc and still in a decisive position concerning the future of the game, I do not engage in price speculation myself. Others may certainly find bargains so blanket bids may net nice goods.

The game needs more concentration of ownership, because that brings commitment. I encourage everyone to think of the opportunity to corner CKG and CON, cheaply with the windfall XMR. I will also donate gold to those who buy the most.

Collectibles will be valued based on market as always.

Items such as SCI, WP etc should retain their value in fiat (ie. about 15% of the pre-pause value) because TC adjusts their generation price and has historically followed fiat pricing.

The situation with the game is still open. Town Council has not yet drafted the action plan, and when it is ready, it may get rejected (if consensus is needed), or fail in execution. Also possible is that the plan succeeds brilliantly, more than making up the sudden surge of XMR. It is worth repeating that this game was intended to grow faster than XMR to be able to help XMR. This of course was true for the first 2 years in the game, as XMR was stalling and CK increased 20x in value. This is still the plan.

Because of the above, the risk to invest in CK assets is big, and consequently the price is reasonable, and the upside is very large. The XMR community has swollen beyond bounds in the last weeks, which can be positive for CK.

M balances are secured in all scenarios.

Happy trading!

Meeting lasted for 3:10 hours (plus before and after meetings). Decisions:

- Town Council working group will consist of:
* HH The Mayor Sirjacket
* HM The King
* Sir kronicblazer
* Sir Crichton
* Sir luigi1111
* Sir Mooo
* Dame Roopatra (in no particular order)

It is likely that Election will take place soon to reduce the number to 6, as defined by the rules.


- Markets will open as soon as possible, with existing bids/asks cleared.


Discussion log is probably available from someone.

Well damn, for some reason I was certain it was 6 pm UTC 

Anyways, what was decided?

I will attempt to attend the chat today
So far, I see no reason that could push me away

Those numbers certainly add credibility to this project  

A lot can be done with 750 000$, a CEO can be just the beginning of what could and should be a huge development&marketing campaign

Further things came to my mind as we prepare for the meeting:

* After hesitating for a while, I now support opening the Changelog again for trading. This also enables deposits and withdrawals, which require both saddam and changelog to be active. I do not support hastily starting the game.
(The hesitation was because there is an inordinately large insider trading possibility, which would put me in a position that I cannot win, because I would be accused of insider info/forcing the result, regardless of whether I trade or don't and what happens, and whether I supported it or not. Then I woke up and realised the game is not about just me any more, and everyone needs to get used to it. Also other people speculating with money, instead of concentrating on human resources felt needless. But speculating is still so fun, and provides real-time information to the decision makers, and people have right to deposit/withdraw - which cannot be done without changelog open - so I now support opening it.)

* The game finances are easier to analyse when the ingame items have reached some valuation. Before resuming trading, there are some things to do. Trading will be resumed today based on the decisions of the general meeting / Town Council / gamemaster (if they support). Negative balances will be searched and withdrawals checked that they are not connected to negative balances held by the other characters of the owner.

* To go on in any incarnation, the game needs a CEO. I have done that position as a side job for 2 years and criticism has mounted, due to me having too many roles. There is no question whether we need new blood now. Some thought we needed it long time ago, I objected, and luckily now we have the financial resources to make it happen, unlike back then.

* There are other full and part time roles to fulfil, but finding the CEO takes priority as he will organise them. I will thrive as game designer rather, and also the design will be better when it is possible to concentrate on that.

* I am very happy that the community is activated. This I see as the most important prerequisite for moving on with the game.

* Please consider if you could lead any of the corporations I started in the last years before the pause. They are important for the game economy, but the intention is not that I would pull all the strings, quite the contrary actually.

* It is possible to fork the game because it is open source. I cannot personally support any such action however. I have brought many friends to play and support the game, and defrauding them or anyone is not in my toolbox. Equally important is that the future generations of players understand that our rules hold. Especially the CON-issue is a (longterm) non-issue, only relevant now because XMR has grown faster than CK. Assuming this will be the case in the future is shortsighted. (By this I don't mean that we should not address it.)

* If promising new team members are found to take the game on, I will be ready to assist them with CKG. There is also some gold in the Coinshop, which could be opened to help if ingame value is needed to reach some deals.

* New value comes to the game via deposits of XMR, which allocate themselves to CKG, CON, land and item purchases, causing their value to go up, and enriching the sellers, who in turn buy other assets and pay taxes. Town receives the taxes, and is the initial seller in some of the assets as well. For a viable game, it is important that there is a steady inflow of XMR.
(The recent surge in price will cause an outflow with currently uncertain magnitude. Historically, the USD value of saddam's depository has been about $50k. We now have $700k worth of XMR in the depository, so it is not a catastrophe even if the size declines short-term, as long as the long-term direction is up.)

It is of course great that others also explore the major option #3 "close down", with the intent of finding reasonable ways in doing it. However to not make it a self-fulfilling prophecy, I'd encourage thinking and posting about the continuation options as well. Closing down is not so difficult that I would have made such a great plea for help during the last weeks!   Continuing with a goal that energises people, and a team who can perform in more demanding circumstances than before, that is.



Town has no assets nor liabilities outside of the game (M treated as ingame).

There is a small amount of ingame debts (< 1 bil).

M balances hosted by town are earmarked to multiple ingame uses and are in their separate accounts. A large amount is in rental pools, a minuscule amount is in CKG/CON pool. Also non-earmarked funds exist. Any liquidation should take into account the owner of the funds, because Town administers the whole game economy and not only its own. The allocation of systemic funds to players in a possible liquidation cannot be done based on the already existing rules alone. The closest to a fair outcome in this event would be to unpause the time in Ultima and see how long Town can make it. Dividing any funds to CON holders in excess of the stated obligation does not seem correct in my opinion.


I admit that it is a precarious acute situation that the fiat value of CON payments has swollen at the same time that the game has been paused. Still it deserves mention that during the history of the game, we have never had current funds in excess of 1-2 realmonths of expenditures, and often it has been 1-2 weeks, or 1-2 weeks back! Regardless of how little of the Town-administered funds we allocate to the CON payments, we are not facing cash flow crisis in 1-2 months, in other words the Town has more liquid funds than ever, both absolutely and relatively. Furthermore, the majority of CON payments will go to people who have historically supported the game and put the proceeds back to use.


This is a sensible idea and warrants discussion. It is important to remember that it constitutes a fork (forced redemption of protected asset; creation of more CKG). Technically it is extremely easy to do, just make CON yield a dividend in some asset that includes CKG and erase CON.

S-CKG, S-CON etc are issued by independent entities who manage their affairs themselves.


The reason Town is borrowing at all is the original rule that no more CKG can be printed. Town borrowing XMR was consolidated in 1605 because:
- It looks bad to have debt (CON does not have principal, it can be called "consolidated stock" as well as "debt").
- The aftermarket of multiple maturity small emission debt was anemic
- Because of this, the auctions did not fetch a good rate, instead of the recent 0.5% CON, it was 1-1.5%.


This would be extremely lulzy written as a rule.


There is a tail emission with Town as the initial beneficiary: a small amount of new gold is created for the "lot exploration game". We have had so few players compared to the value of the gold stock that this gold has not played a significant role (see rules).


As gamemaster, I do not support any forks in the game. We have a social contract and my job is to uphold it.

I don't entirely agree with the bold. Corporations/entities should also be treated as a passthrough to the extent they hold CON or S-CON. Example of this in particular is S-HODL, which holds S-CKG/CKG (written off under this hypothetical) as well as S-CON/CON. S-HODL shareholders should receive the proceeds of any CON/S-CON liquidation.

There may be some other edge cases that need further consideration.

It's the unexpected which draws people to the theatre
of war--there's not a rule I can quote,
but the Roger Ver example you gave
me cause, but effect that's
the kicker

Thank you for posting the TOS. In my mind this simplifies matters greatly. A very good starting point is to look at liquidation and then go from there. I have quoted the above since it identifies the obligations of town, since those obligations would then fall on the assets that town has outside of the game, primarily I understand this to consist of demand deposits of XMR.  These assets are encumbered by those obligations of town outside of the game. I will refer to  the obligations of town outside of the game as the senior debt. The other commitment of town is the weekly CON payment of 0.1 XMR per CON to the holders of CON in perpetuity. I will refer to the CON payments as the junior debt. At the point as far as I can see the commitments of town end. The XMR on deposit in the game by the players is on deposit with a third party and consequently does not form part of this discussion.

My first point is that the CON deposits are to be made weekly. There is no mention of the "game year" in this commitment. By this token stopping the game clock by pausing the game did not absolve town of its obligation to the CON holders, and town has theoretically already defaulted on the CON payments; however to my knowledge none of the CON members has at this point called a default on CON. My mentioning of this does not constitute the calling of a default on behalf of my character DrC.

We can now take a look how liquidation would look. First the out of game assets of town are used to pay the senior debt (out of game liabilities of town). Then the balance of the out of game assets of town is converted to XMR and applied against the junior debt (CON).  S-CON would be treated as a flow through. Everything else is written off. At this point because of the public domain aspect of the game there is nothing preventing the reinstatement of the game in a similar or different form, by forking the game.

At this point I see two main options under the rules :

1) Cure the default of town to the CON holders by making the back payments out of existing out of game assets of town, after the out of game liabilities are satisfied and then restart the game before town runs out of funds.

2) Liquidate that game with one of two options afterward fork or no fork.

A fork would of course mean the change of the rules of the game, since it would create a new game. Having said this I propose a fork along the following lines after liquidation for discussion.

1) The holders of the old CK characters are given an equivalent character with the same stature and in game assets as their old character with exception of CON and (CON derivative assets such as S-CON)

2) The former CON holders are provided with CKG for the written off balance of their CON holding in the liquidation. The CON/CKG exchange rate to be based upon the average CON/CKG market rate during the operation of the old CK. Holders of S-CON are given an equivalent amount of S-CKG

Other possible ideas:

3) Restrict town form borrowing with a principal term repayment term greater than 90 calendar days. This debt could of course be rolled over.

4) Restrict town from taking on any net debt or net short position denominated in an asset other than a fiat currency managed by a central bank with a known and established history of debasing the currency at will. For greater clarity fiat currencies such as USD, EUR etc., would be allowed while crypto currencies such as XMR, XBT etc., and precious metals such as XAU, XAG would be not. Payments made in XMR at the exchange rate at the time of the payment and funding also made in XMR at the exchange rate at time of funding. Hedging would be allowed. For example borrowing an amount of XMR that is less than or equal to the XMR on deposit.

5) Provide town with a gold mine with a fixed annual (calendar not game) yield of under 1% of the initial fixed CKG issue. A Monero style "tail emission".