Topic: Cryptopia Cryptocurrency Platform Services and Development - page 56. (Read 173234 times)
Why do you think liquidators should decide about things which are not part of the Cryptopia's assets?
I don't want that anybody decide about my asset except me!
I want all coins which are at my portfolio. I don't want fiat.
I did not accredit any liquidators to work with my coins.
I want to decide what to do with my coins, and that is my right.
OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
They will probably pay $$$ value at the time of the hack,
The floating question right now what will be the value of those coins that only being traded on cryptopia? Having zero exchange their value is flat zero. The liquidators should just refund the users of those non-liquid coins.
I read that at the MtGox exchange case every client of that exchange had options to decide:
1. to be paid in USD or JPY (court sold 10-20% of found bitcoins)
2. to be paid in found bitcoins
Those options are very fair.
Process still lasts, and at this moment no client is paid by found bitcoins or by fiat money, as I know.
Looks like the stolen Ethereum is on the move and being laundered on Huobi
https://www.coindesk.com/the-cryptopia-hackers-are-moving-funds-into-at-least-four-wallets
MtGox was very different. They only traded bitcoin and were insolvent for some time (several hacks).
It was initially thought there were no bitcoins left but a cold wallet was eventually "found".
MtGox was based in Japan so Japanese law applied and funds were intermingled with company funds.
NZ law is different. Most of the coins I don't expect to have been intermingled. I have previously posted how I expect the liquidation to be conducted.
here and here Any other way would be stupid and will get a lot of opposition.
https://www.coindesk.com/the-cryptopia-hackers-are-moving-funds-into-at-least-four-wallets
OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
MtGox was very different. They only traded bitcoin and were insolvent for some time (several hacks).
It was initially thought there were no bitcoins left but a cold wallet was eventually "found".
MtGox was based in Japan so Japanese law applied and funds were intermingled with company funds.
NZ law is different. Most of the coins I don't expect to have been intermingled. I have previously posted how I expect the liquidation to be conducted.
here and here Any other way would be stupid and will get a lot of opposition.
Tradesatoshi.com belongs to Adam Clark.
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....
As far as I am aware Tradesatoshi does not belong to Adam Clark.
Francesco Alibrandi started Tradesatoshi and paid Adam Clark for the code to set up an exchange. Since then the exchange has changed a lot and has other site developers.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09878766/officers
Since then Tradesatoshi moved its jurisdiction from the UK to HK.
According to the HK company records Francesco Alibrandi is still the sole director.
We demand the imprisonment of criminals
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
Typical dumbass comment from a resident of a country where their laws are worth less than 2nd hand toilet paper.
Be assured if Cryptopia owners have done any illegal activities they'll have their balls (or lady balls) nailed to the wall.
We demand the imprisonment of criminals
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
Scammers Next Scam
Scammer Assistant xtraelv
<< hat of scammer
They are actually legally registered in Hong Kong. I posted a search I had done earlier in the thread after someone posted that they were struck off on the UK register.
They were already registered in HK before they were struck off. So it appears to be a deliberate move to a new jurisdiction.
Tradesatoshi Ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong according to its terms:
https://tradesatoshi.com/Home/Terms
It is currently a registered company in Hong Kong according to the register.
https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/
I'm not sure where it was incorporated prior to this. It is likely that it moved its operation to Hong Kong prior to its de-registration in the UK.
Coinmarketcap shows a turnover of $91k
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/trade-satoshi/
With a buy 0.1% and sell 0.1% fee that would make $182 daily in fees
But they also charge for listing coins, tipping slots and airdrops.
Tradesatoshi - BEWARE! Blocking without reasons. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5118992.new#new
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrencyTrading/comments/b2w8d6/tradesatoshi_accounts_blocking_beware/
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/tradesatoshi.com?languages=all
service thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1691388.540
Scammer Assistant xtraelv
<< hat of scammerThe main problems with this exchange have to do with the fact that they are not accountable to anybody for anything. They aren't a registered business, they don't have any sort of licensing, and nobody knows where the owners or operators are located.
They started demanding KYC from all users after their company was dissolved, which is beyond weird. If they're not a real company, why do they need KYC? They aren't reporting to any government, they're not paying taxes; they're just a rogue operation who depend on either the loyalty of their user base (rapidly dissipating) or the naivete of new users to keep them going.
TradeSatoshi is down to $46k in trading volume per 24 hours; at a 0.1% fee this means they are only making $46 per day on trading fees. As huge withdrawal fees wasn't working in their favor, I believe they had to resort to the sudden KYC-for-everybody manuver as means to generate additional revenue. Plus, as I mentioned before, reputable exchanges don't use this as an excuse to with-hold customer funds and block them out of their accounts, even if it says they could according to their terms and conditions.
Its just bad business all the way around and potential users need to be warned about their practices.
They started demanding KYC from all users after their company was dissolved, which is beyond weird. If they're not a real company, why do they need KYC? They aren't reporting to any government, they're not paying taxes; they're just a rogue operation who depend on either the loyalty of their user base (rapidly dissipating) or the naivete of new users to keep them going.
TradeSatoshi is down to $46k in trading volume per 24 hours; at a 0.1% fee this means they are only making $46 per day on trading fees. As huge withdrawal fees wasn't working in their favor, I believe they had to resort to the sudden KYC-for-everybody manuver as means to generate additional revenue. Plus, as I mentioned before, reputable exchanges don't use this as an excuse to with-hold customer funds and block them out of their accounts, even if it says they could according to their terms and conditions.
Its just bad business all the way around and potential users need to be warned about their practices.
They are actually legally registered in Hong Kong. I posted a search I had done earlier in the thread after someone posted that they were struck off on the UK register.
They were already registered in HK before they were struck off. So it appears to be a deliberate move to a new jurisdiction.
Tradesatoshi Ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong according to its terms:
https://tradesatoshi.com/Home/Terms
It is currently a registered company in Hong Kong according to the register.
https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/
I'm not sure where it was incorporated prior to this. It is likely that it moved its operation to Hong Kong prior to its de-registration in the UK.
Coinmarketcap shows a turnover of $91k
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/trade-satoshi/
With a buy 0.1% and sell 0.1% fee that would make $182 daily in fees
But they also charge for listing coins, tipping slots and airdrops.
Tradesatoshi - BEWARE! Blocking without reasons. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5118992.new#new
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrencyTrading/comments/b2w8d6/tradesatoshi_accounts_blocking_beware/
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/tradesatoshi.com?languages=all
service thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1691388.540
Tradesatoshi.com belongs to Adam Clark.
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....
Has anyone done analysis of Cryptopia's hot wallets to see if funds have moved subsequent to their liquidation?
OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
My general understanding is that every time there is a pay-back to customers who lost their money, the method which results in the least possible returns is chosen.
If the BTC price drops, they'll return you the amount of BTC you lost. If the BTC price raises, they'll say that they'll refund whatever value their users were holding on "day x", so if you held 1 BTC on whatever day they like (hack-day or liquidation day? I dunno) and they'll refund you in 2 years when BTC's price could be $20k, then you'll receive $6k~$8k instead of $20k.
We demand the imprisonment of criminals
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
And be a trial outside of New Zealand
So did anyone see the latest star vs forces of evil? That's like 10000x sadder then what happened to cryptopia. Star destroys all magic in the end and the high commission dies reee
OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.
If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?
What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?
Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?
It is exactly the reason why they had to call in the liquidators - because they cannot use other peoples funds or continue trading if they are insolvent.
That's not true. You don't have to involve a liquidator if you want to close a business. You simply close it, pay back all the concerned parties and that's that. And make no mistake, this is a voluntary liquidation, no one forced it upon them. It clearly says so in their company filings. A question remains: if voluntary, why not first receivership but straight to liquidation? Contrasting this with all their tweets saying they are on the way to resuming normal activity?Nope. Not allowed under the Companies Act 1993
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0105/203.0/DLM319570.html
Also I don't think you understand the terminology that you are using.
Receivership is where the assets are sold for the benefit of one secured creditor. Appointment is through enforcement of a clause in the deed or instrument that created the security.
Liquidation is where the assets are returned or sold for the benefit of all creditors. A liquidator can be appointed by the company or by a creditor petitioning the court.
Where a company appoints a liquidator costs are saved because if a creditor petitions the court their legal fees are priority debt.
It is exactly the reason why they had to call in the liquidators - because they cannot use other peoples funds or continue trading if they are insolvent.
That's not true. You don't have to involve a liquidator if you want to close a business. You simply close it, pay back all the concerned parties and that's that. And make no mistake, this is a voluntary liquidation, no one forced it upon them. It clearly says so in their company filings. A question remains: if voluntary, why not first receivership but straight to liquidation? Contrasting this with all their tweets saying they are on the way to resuming normal activity?It doesn't even necessarily mean that there is not enough funds to cover the debt. It could be that they do not have enough cash at hand to pay for their bills going forward.
Again, wrong. The only real reason why one would call a liquidator is because they can't pay back and seek the protection of the liquidation process. No one is crazy to call someone who gets a fat cut if they can simply close a company.Of course it's not that simple, we don't know how much was hacked, if indeed was a hack. Again, no reason not to post the hack TX, unless you want to hide something: amount, destination etc. So complete secrecy about the hack + voluntary liquidation = draw your own conclusions.
Thanks for this one, Atleast 1 lawyer are sharing their own opinions on how this liquidation process will work. This will shed some light on majority of unanswered question on what will happen with customers funds. I still believe Justice will be serve and i am still hoping someone will spend a jail for this mess.
If 14% of their total holdings was hack, How come these thieves are saying there are not enough money to cover everyone's money! they already haircut people's balance to cover the losses in the hack.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
Indeed, according to the results of the January hacker attack, Cryptopia’s exchange did not incur financial losses, since it shifted all losses to the client’s balance sheets. (I have deducted 14% BTC and 49% LTC). What is the reason why they became financially insolvent and decided to close the exchange, taking all the remaining money?
I think the reason is simple.
Since they chose to...
(1) roll the cost of the hack (their inability) to the customers,
(2) they were very slow in reopening the exchange, and
(3) when they finally started resuming the business they were doing so in such a bad manner (like allowing trading without allowing deposit/withdraw)
... they completely lost the last few people had at least a little faith in their exchange.
So when they tried to resume their business, it was probably obvious to them early on that there would only be withdrawals and almost no new deposits.
If 14% of their total holdings was hack, How come these thieves are saying there are not enough money to cover everyone's money! they already haircut people's balance to cover the losses in the hack.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
It is exactly the reason why they had to call in the liquidators - because they cannot use other peoples funds or continue trading if they are insolvent.
It doesn't even necessarily mean that there is not enough funds to cover the debt. It could be that they do not have enough cash at hand to pay for their bills going forward.
The volume on the exchange was dead. You can't keep trading if you are likely to run out of money to pay for costs at some stage (i.e. server lease, wages and building rental) . The post hack work that they have done will just assist the liquidators with resolving it faster.
In this case all customers should be the priority and be the first to get paid in the liquidation process. One thing, Why they don't just allow all users to withdraw their money/coins from the exchange instead of asking help from liquidators which probably incur more fees and more money that they don't have.
This is not how the law works in western countries. Of course, money being deposited IN TRUST will go back to their rightful owner; however, crypto is not considered money and it's definitely not IN TRUST. So, basically the liquidators can do whatetever they want with it. There will not be anything left for us, customers, this is how it works now at this point in time, in this society.
I will say this again, people, don't leave coin at exchanges.
Are you a lawyer?
Quote
Your Coin Balances are operated by us, and represent entries in your name on the general ledger of ownership of Coins maintained and held by us. This means the Coins in your deposit wallets may be pooled in our internal accounts with other Users' Coins at any time.
Each User's entry in the general ledger of ownership of Coins is held by us, on trust, for that User.
Each User's entry in the general ledger of ownership of Coins is held by us, on trust, for that User.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190113164519/https:/www.cryptopia.co.nz/Home/Terms#4
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6535069065508200448/
Do you remember the time when topia had a cool steel design? Then for some reason they rewrite frontend and probably backend. A shitty green design. And then they were hacked because of valnurability in backend. In conclusion: dont try make good things better. 
If 14% of their total holdings was hack, How come these thieves are saying there are not enough money to cover everyone's money! they already haircut people's balance to cover the losses in the hack.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
Where's the remaining 86% money own by their customers? It means they are using people's deposit to fund their operation while collecting trading fees and listing fees. IN this case, They are all thieves and scammers, IMHO they should go to jail for their actions.
Indeed, according to the results of the January hacker attack, Cryptopia’s exchange did not incur financial losses, since it shifted all losses to the client’s balance sheets. (I have deducted 14% BTC and 49% LTC). What is the reason why they became financially insolvent and decided to close the exchange, taking all the remaining money?
They have running costs to operate the exchange the building people that work there server costs . when they closed for all those months they lost their customers trust so when they opened again not many people where trading so they could get income from fee's they saw the money trying to leave the exchange so they quit instead of working a little longer so everyone could have withdrawn their coins they just walked away.
Also now the liquidators are securing all coins and checking funds .. hmm ok what the hell have they been doing all these months because that's exactly what cryptopia was telling us that they where doing at that time.
Jump to: