Topic: Cryptopia hack - page 4. (Read 3710 times)
(Comme on me l'a soufflé justement dans l'oreillette, je déplace ce topic dans la section Echanges où il a plus sa place).
Tout depend de la qualite juridique des coins.
Si property et dans un trust unique, alors ils te rendent tes coins. (si te coins n'ont pas ete vole, si ils ont ete voles, ils t'ajoutent a la liste des crediteurs)
Si property et dans un trust mutualise, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent et la valeur manquante (10% --- 20 Mill / 217 Mill) s'ajoute aux autre crediteurs.
Si non property et donc coins de cryptopia, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent (apres que tous les autre "secured" crediteur aient ete paye).
Merci beaucoup pour toutes ces précisions mais justement à propos des bénéficiaires du trust et des créditeurs, est-ce que tu as eu des éclaircissements sur la non-réception du mail?Si property et dans un trust unique, alors ils te rendent tes coins. (si te coins n'ont pas ete vole, si ils ont ete voles, ils t'ajoutent a la liste des crediteurs)
Si property et dans un trust mutualise, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent et la valeur manquante (10% --- 20 Mill / 217 Mill) s'ajoute aux autre crediteurs.
Si non property et donc coins de cryptopia, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent (apres que tous les autre "secured" crediteur aient ete paye).
The Court has approved the Queen’s Counsel appointment and service of this order must be effected by the liquidators sending an email with a link to these proceedings for all potential trust beneficiaries and creditors that Cryptopia held email addresses for.
The Court orders and an update from the liquidators can be found at the link below
"service" ça se traduit "signification" en français, donc ce mail n'est peut-être pas si anodin que ça, et pourrait vouloir dire a contrario, que ceux qui ne l'ont pas reçu ne sont pas reconnus par la procédure comme beneficiaires du trust potentiels ou créditeurs ?
Tu devrais peut-être essayer de contacter le liquidateur pour te signaler afin d'assurer tes arrières.
Bon je viens de me farcir 40 pages de documents de court.
Voici des infos croustillantes :
-snip-
Ben dis donc chapeau et merci, pour le boulot, je n'ai plus de smerit là, mais je t'offre un IOU Voici des infos croustillantes :
-snip-
haha t'inquiete
Par contre, est-ce que tu as compris si une date avait été définitivement validée pour l'évaluation du prix des assets?
Ce n'est pas encore defini.
Le liquidateur ne sait pas (et donc demande au juge) si :
La valeur due est celle des coins a la date de la mise en liquidation (je ne sais pas si c'est le debut de la liquidation - fevrier/mars ou quand tout est fini).
Ou alors le maximum de : "au dessus" (valeur a la liquidation) ou alors, les $5000 nzd des conditions et terms de cryptopia.
Mais bon les $5000 de cryptopia, n'est pas vraiment valable, car techniquement les fonds sont dans un trust, mais bon, pour faire un trust il faut faire des signature et passer devant un avocat, donc au mieux il y a 1 trust pour tout le monde, mais c'est pas clair.
Pas sure que cryptopia est fait les choses en bonne et due forme.
Si tu peux, lis les paragraphes 26 a 31
https://www.grantthornton.co.nz/globalassets/1.-member-firms/new-zealand/pdfs/cryptopia/4.-affidavit-of-dir.pdf
J'aurais bien fait copier coller, mais c'est un scan et non un PDF
C'est compliqué pour des actifs aussi volatils, surtout que Cryptopia était essentiellement un exchange de "shitcoins".
D'ailleurs pour ceux qui ne sont côtés que sur des DEX en dehors de Cryptopia, il peut y avoir de sacrées surprises si ils doivent les revendre pour rembourser les créanciers...
Est-ce que tu as compris comment ils comptaient les vendre à ce propos? Une vente aux enchères (auction) serait organisée ou comme Mt gox, le liquidateur passerait directement par les exchanges?
D'ailleurs pour ceux qui ne sont côtés que sur des DEX en dehors de Cryptopia, il peut y avoir de sacrées surprises si ils doivent les revendre pour rembourser les créanciers...
Est-ce que tu as compris comment ils comptaient les vendre à ce propos? Une vente aux enchères (auction) serait organisée ou comme Mt gox, le liquidateur passerait directement par les exchanges?
Tout depend de la qualite juridique des coins.
Si property et dans un trust unique, alors ils te rendent tes coins. (si te coins n'ont pas ete vole, si ils ont ete voles, ils t'ajoutent a la liste des crediteurs)
Si property et dans un trust mutualise, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent et la valeur manquante (10% --- 20 Mill / 217 Mill) s'ajoute aux autre crediteurs.
Si non property et donc coins de cryptopia, alors ils te rendent la valeur en $ en fonction du prix qu'ils vendent (apres que tous les autre "secured" crediteur aient ete paye).
A part ça cette histoire de changement de statut juridique quelques mois à peine avant la "découverte" du hack, est assez troublant comme coïncidence notamment au regard de ce que tu nous expliques sur la fonction juridique d'un trust...
Ca me conforte un peu plus dans l'idée que Cryptopia cache des choses. Comme je l'avais raconté, moi le fait que leur support ait osé me dire qu'il ne faut pas laisser ses cryptos sur les exchanges, juste avant le hack me reste en travers de la gorge.
Ca me conforte un peu plus dans l'idée que Cryptopia cache des choses. Comme je l'avais raconté, moi le fait que leur support ait osé me dire qu'il ne faut pas laisser ses cryptos sur les exchanges, juste avant le hack me reste en travers de la gorge.
Honnetement, le changement de leur Terms and Conditions, si accepte par le Juge nous sauve la vie, Ca veut dire que le gouvernement ne peu pas prendre nos crypto pour payer les "secured creditors" en autre les impots = 5 millions + le liquidateur + avocats (surement 1 millions)
finalement, rien ne va se passer avant Fevrier 2020, je vient de lire ca dans un document du tribunal :
Quote
This document notifies you that –
1. The Applicants, David Ian Ruscoe and Malcolm Russell Moore of Grant
Thornton New Zealand Limited, liquidators of Cryptopia Limited (Cryptopia
or the Company) will on apply for orders:
As to the legal status of the Digital Assets:
Whether any or all of the various cryptocurrencies (Digital Assets)
held by the liquidators of Cryptopia constitute 'property', as defined in
section 2 of the Companies Act 1993;
Whether any or all of the Digital Assets are held on trust for any or all
Account Holders (whether by way of express, implied, resulting,
constructive, Quistclose trust or otherwise);
1. The Applicants, David Ian Ruscoe and Malcolm Russell Moore of Grant
Thornton New Zealand Limited, liquidators of Cryptopia Limited (Cryptopia
or the Company) will on apply for orders:
As to the legal status of the Digital Assets:
Whether any or all of the various cryptocurrencies (Digital Assets)
held by the liquidators of Cryptopia constitute 'property', as defined in
section 2 of the Companies Act 1993;
Whether any or all of the Digital Assets are held on trust for any or all
Account Holders (whether by way of express, implied, resulting,
constructive, Quistclose trust or otherwise);
Bon je viens de me farcir 40 pages de documents de court.
Voici des infos croustillantes :
-snip-
Ben dis donc chapeau et merci, pour le boulot, je n'ai plus de smerit là, mais Voici des infos croustillantes :
-snip-
[merit distribué]Par contre, est-ce que tu as compris si une date avait été définitivement validée pour l'évaluation du prix des assets?
C'est compliqué pour des actifs aussi volatils, surtout que Cryptopia était essentiellement un exchange de "shitcoins".
D'ailleurs pour ceux qui ne sont côtés que sur des DEX en dehors de Cryptopia, il peut y avoir de sacrées surprises si ils doivent les revendre pour rembourser les créanciers...
Est-ce que tu as compris comment ils comptaient les vendre à ce propos? Une vente aux enchères (auction) serait organisée ou comme Mt gox, le liquidateur passerait directement par les exchanges?
A part ça cette histoire de changement de statut juridique quelques mois à peine avant la "découverte" du hack, est assez troublant comme coïncidence notamment au regard de ce que tu nous expliques sur la fonction juridique d'un trust...
Ca me conforte un peu plus dans l'idée que Cryptopia cache des choses. Comme je l'avais raconté, moi le fait que leur support ait osé me dire qu'il ne faut pas laisser ses cryptos sur les exchanges, juste avant le hack me reste en travers de la gorge.
Bon je viens de me farcir 40 pages de documents de court.
Voici des infos croustillantes :
Il y a 921 milles compte clients.
Crypto possede 15 comptes (principalement des compte "withdrawl fees").
Il y a 29 clients qui sont en Republic Democratic of North Korea !!!!
Ensuite LA question que tout le monde se pose :
Que sont les crypto en NZ.
Cryptopia a change ses condition et terms le 7 aout 2018.
Ils ont ecrit que les fonds des utilisateurs sont stocke dans un "trust"
Et ca ca change tout !!!!
la question a 1 million c;est est ce que les crediteurs et couts de la liquidations vont etre payes par les coins des utilisateurs ou les fonds propre de cryptopia.
Et comment ceux qui ont perdu leurs coins vont les recuperer.
la il y a plusieurs car de figure.
Deja le liquidateur demande l'avis de la cours de justice pour savoir si les coins peuvent etre dans des trust.
Les coins ne sont pas vraiement defini en NZ, hors ne peuvent etre dans des "Trust" que des "properties"
Donc deja si les coins ne sont pas des properties on l'a dans le cul.
Ensuite, si ce sont des properties, alors elle sont dans un trust.
Mais est-ce 1 trust mutulaise pour tout le monde ou alors 1 trust par personne.
Explication sur ce qu'est un trust :
Un trust est une entite independante qui beneficie les trustees.
Le trust est independant de cryptopia, cryptopia peut couler, les trust lui est independant.
Exemple plus terre a terre, il est courant en NZ de faire un trust personel ou tu emt tout ton argent et ta maison.
Tu peux beneficier du trust (retirer de l'argent, habiter dans la maison gratuitement ...), mais techniquement cela ne t'appartient pas.
Donc vu que cela ne t'appartient pas, en case de divorse la femme ou l'epoux ne peux pas demander la moitiee.
Copie et colle d'un des documents :
C'est un des points clefs, est ce que nos coins sont nos coins, ou alors est ce que nos coins appartiennent a cryptopia et nous sommes des crediteur non securises.
La Justice NZ a nommee deux avocats "QC" (Queen Counsel) c'est la creme de la creme, l'un pour representer les clients (nous) dans le cas ou les coins sont dans un trust, et un autre QC pour reprsenter tous les crediteurs (y compris nous, si les coins ne sont pas des property, donc le trust ne fonctionne pas, et que nos coins appartiennent donc a cryptopia).
encore quelques screenshot :
Bon la ca pose la question de Savoir si les coins sont des "property" et si oui ou non il y a un trust.
Donc si ce ne sont pas des "property" et / ou si il n'y a pas de trust, le liquidateur demande a la cours de justice de savoir si il doit retourner la somme due en equivalent nzd $ (ou alors en crypto-coin).
Si la reponse a la question B est oui (ce qui implique que A est oui aussi car il ne peut pas y avoir de trust sans que ce soit une "property"). Donc il y a un trust, quels sont les regles du trust, cree le 7 aout 2018, est ce que c'est 1 trust par personne, ou un trust pour tout le monde.
Cela implique, que si 1 trust par personne, les coins non affectes doivent etre rendu en integralite, et les couts sont a la charge de cryptopia (ils ont 400 BTC !). Ceux qui ont des fonds affectues, s'ajoutent a la liste des gens en attente de payement (unsecured creditor.... impots, les gars des serveurs, le loyer ..).
Si 1 trust pour tout le monde, alors notre trust (entite separee de cryptopia) on a collectivement perdu 20 millions (sur les $217 milions) et que on va recuperer nos holding en $ equivelent.
Et que les 20 millons perdus s'ajoutent a la liste des unsecured creditor. Cryptopia nous doit 20 milions.
Voila j'espere que c'est un peu plus clair pour tout le monde.
Voici des infos croustillantes :
Quote
Total value of account holders : $217 millions NZD -- value 14th of may 2019
Il y a 921 milles compte clients.
Crypto possede 15 comptes (principalement des compte "withdrawl fees").
Il y a 29 clients qui sont en Republic Democratic of North Korea !!!!
Ensuite LA question que tout le monde se pose :
Que sont les crypto en NZ.
Cryptopia a change ses condition et terms le 7 aout 2018.
Ils ont ecrit que les fonds des utilisateurs sont stocke dans un "trust"
Et ca ca change tout !!!!
la question a 1 million c;est est ce que les crediteurs et couts de la liquidations vont etre payes par les coins des utilisateurs ou les fonds propre de cryptopia.
Et comment ceux qui ont perdu leurs coins vont les recuperer.
la il y a plusieurs car de figure.
Deja le liquidateur demande l'avis de la cours de justice pour savoir si les coins peuvent etre dans des trust.
Les coins ne sont pas vraiement defini en NZ, hors ne peuvent etre dans des "Trust" que des "properties"
Donc deja si les coins ne sont pas des properties on l'a dans le cul.
Ensuite, si ce sont des properties, alors elle sont dans un trust.
Mais est-ce 1 trust mutulaise pour tout le monde ou alors 1 trust par personne.
Explication sur ce qu'est un trust :
Un trust est une entite independante qui beneficie les trustees.
Le trust est independant de cryptopia, cryptopia peut couler, les trust lui est independant.
Exemple plus terre a terre, il est courant en NZ de faire un trust personel ou tu emt tout ton argent et ta maison.
Tu peux beneficier du trust (retirer de l'argent, habiter dans la maison gratuitement ...), mais techniquement cela ne t'appartient pas.
Donc vu que cela ne t'appartient pas, en case de divorse la femme ou l'epoux ne peux pas demander la moitiee.
Copie et colle d'un des documents :
Quote
The affected parties can be divided into the following classes of shared or
common interest, for the purpose of representation:
(a) Parties that stand to benefit from the Court finding that the Digital
Assets are property that is held on trust by the Company for Account
Holders (Potential Trust Beneficiaries).
(b) Parties that will stand to benefit from the Court finding that the Digital
Assets are property that is beneficially owned by the Company
(Creditors). This will include:
(i) The known creditors with claims valued at NZD4.2 million who
have an interest in the Originating Application as persons who
may receive a distribution as creditors of Cryptopia.
(ii) Any additional creditors, who are not yet known to the
Liquidators, but who may make a claim in the liquidation, such as
parties who may have a claim against Cryptopia.
BF\59140542\3 Page 5
(iii) Certain account holders who would benefit from a distribution in
NZD assessed at the NZD value of the account holder's individual
coin balance at the date of liquidation, as opposed to an in specie
distribution. For example, those account holders with a coin
balance that has decreased in value (in terms of NZD) since the
date of liquidation.
common interest, for the purpose of representation:
(a) Parties that stand to benefit from the Court finding that the Digital
Assets are property that is held on trust by the Company for Account
Holders (Potential Trust Beneficiaries).
(b) Parties that will stand to benefit from the Court finding that the Digital
Assets are property that is beneficially owned by the Company
(Creditors). This will include:
(i) The known creditors with claims valued at NZD4.2 million who
have an interest in the Originating Application as persons who
may receive a distribution as creditors of Cryptopia.
(ii) Any additional creditors, who are not yet known to the
Liquidators, but who may make a claim in the liquidation, such as
parties who may have a claim against Cryptopia.
BF\59140542\3 Page 5
(iii) Certain account holders who would benefit from a distribution in
NZD assessed at the NZD value of the account holder's individual
coin balance at the date of liquidation, as opposed to an in specie
distribution. For example, those account holders with a coin
balance that has decreased in value (in terms of NZD) since the
date of liquidation.
C'est un des points clefs, est ce que nos coins sont nos coins, ou alors est ce que nos coins appartiennent a cryptopia et nous sommes des crediteur non securises.
La Justice NZ a nommee deux avocats "QC" (Queen Counsel) c'est la creme de la creme, l'un pour representer les clients (nous) dans le cas ou les coins sont dans un trust, et un autre QC pour reprsenter tous les crediteurs (y compris nous, si les coins ne sont pas des property, donc le trust ne fonctionne pas, et que nos coins appartiennent donc a cryptopia).
encore quelques screenshot :
Bon la ca pose la question de Savoir si les coins sont des "property" et si oui ou non il y a un trust.
Donc si ce ne sont pas des "property" et / ou si il n'y a pas de trust, le liquidateur demande a la cours de justice de savoir si il doit retourner la somme due en equivalent nzd $ (ou alors en crypto-coin).
Si la reponse a la question B est oui (ce qui implique que A est oui aussi car il ne peut pas y avoir de trust sans que ce soit une "property"). Donc il y a un trust, quels sont les regles du trust, cree le 7 aout 2018, est ce que c'est 1 trust par personne, ou un trust pour tout le monde.
Cela implique, que si 1 trust par personne, les coins non affectes doivent etre rendu en integralite, et les couts sont a la charge de cryptopia (ils ont 400 BTC !). Ceux qui ont des fonds affectues, s'ajoutent a la liste des gens en attente de payement (unsecured creditor.... impots, les gars des serveurs, le loyer ..).
Si 1 trust pour tout le monde, alors notre trust (entite separee de cryptopia) on a collectivement perdu 20 millions (sur les $217 milions) et que on va recuperer nos holding en $ equivelent.
Et que les 20 millons perdus s'ajoutent a la liste des unsecured creditor. Cryptopia nous doit 20 milions.
Voila j'espere que c'est un peu plus clair pour tout le monde.
Le mail que j'ai reçu est assez succinct.
Je l'ai reçu le 1er novembre
[email protected]
Subject : Cryptopia Limited (in Liquidation) update 25 October 2019
Dear Cryptopia Stakeholder,
You are being emailed as part of the Liquidation of Cryptopia Limited.
The liquidators have applied to the High Court of New Zealand for directions regarding the legal status of customer holdings and the ability to hold Cryptocurrency on trust. The Liquidators have asked the Court to appoint two Queen’s Counsel for these proceedings.
The Court has approved the Queen’s Counsel appointment and service of this order must be effected by the liquidators sending an email with a link to these proceedings for all potential trust beneficiaries and creditors that Cryptopia held email addresses for.
The Court orders and an update from the liquidators can be found at the link below:
https://www.grantthornton.co.nz/update-for-cryptopia-account-holders-25-october-2019/
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response.
Je l'ai reçu le 1er novembre
[email protected]
Subject : Cryptopia Limited (in Liquidation) update 25 October 2019
Dear Cryptopia Stakeholder,
You are being emailed as part of the Liquidation of Cryptopia Limited.
The liquidators have applied to the High Court of New Zealand for directions regarding the legal status of customer holdings and the ability to hold Cryptocurrency on trust. The Liquidators have asked the Court to appoint two Queen’s Counsel for these proceedings.
The Court has approved the Queen’s Counsel appointment and service of this order must be effected by the liquidators sending an email with a link to these proceedings for all potential trust beneficiaries and creditors that Cryptopia held email addresses for.
The Court orders and an update from the liquidators can be found at the link below:
https://www.grantthornton.co.nz/update-for-cryptopia-account-holders-25-october-2019/
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response.
Si elle est en liquidation, c'est le liquidateur qui gère ça.
Oui ben je sais pas combien ça va lui coûter de payer un KYC pour 900 000 clients, mais il risque de plus rester grand chose dans la caisse au final.Je n'ai pas recu d'email.
Il y a un truc que je ne comprend pas.
Cryptopia s'est fait hacker 20 millions de $
Ils ont aussi des dettes chez des fournisseurs + paies en retard + taxe... ok
Bon, ils ont presque 400BTC qui appartiennent a l'echange c'est presque 6 millions de $
Bon la on peut voir qu'ils manque des fonds et donc que les fonds perdus ne peuvent pas etre couvert par leur propre reserves (pas SAFU)
Mais pour ceux qui n'ont pas eu de coin impactes /voles, je trouve ca injuste si ils nous reduisent nos balance.
Nous ne sommes pas des investisseurs, nous ne somme pas des crediteurs, nous somme des clients.
Je donnerais encore le meme exemple, tu te gare sur un parking VINCI, si Vinci fait faillite, ta voiture est toujours a toi.
Je ne vois pas en quoi le liquidateur va vendre ta voiture pour te donner une partie de l'argent de la voiture moins les frais de liquidation et la somme necessaire pour payer les "secured creditor" (l'etat, les taxes, les salaires ..).
On marche sur la tete.
Je les appelle maintenant !
edit by me :
bon j'ai appelle, la standardiste n'avais pas plus d'info que ca.
Elle ma donne l'email du "national Managing Partner"
Je lui ai envoye ca:
Quote
Hi Russell,
I would like to know if you have emailed the KYC procedure to Cryptopia clients ?
I have not received any email regarding my holdings (unaffected by the hack).
Also, would you be able to let me know if the balance of user unaffected by the hack will be restored in full or not ?
Best regards
I would like to know if you have emailed the KYC procedure to Cryptopia clients ?
I have not received any email regarding my holdings (unaffected by the hack).
Also, would you be able to let me know if the balance of user unaffected by the hack will be restored in full or not ?
Best regards
Wait and see
Si elle est en liquidation, c'est le liquidateur qui gère ça.
Oui ben je sais pas combien ça va lui coûter de payer un KYC pour 900 000 clients, mais il risque de plus rester grand chose dans la caisse au final. 
Si elle est en liquidation, c'est le liquidateur qui gère ça.
Vous avez reçu le mail pour la liquiditation de Cryptopia? Il va falloir passer obligatoirement un KYC, pour chaque client. Et ils disent qu'il y en a 900 000!
Non mais allo comment une boite qui est en train d'être liquidée et qui a déjà revendu son materiel peut organiser un KYC pour 900 000 personnes?
Ca va prendre combien d'années ça?
https://www.grantthornton.co.nz/update-for-cryptopia-account-holders-25-october-2019/
Non mais allo comment une boite qui est en train d'être liquidée et qui a déjà revendu son materiel peut organiser un KYC pour 900 000 personnes?
Ca va prendre combien d'années ça?https://www.grantthornton.co.nz/update-for-cryptopia-account-holders-25-october-2019/
Comme dis au dessus par Guigui371, c'est vraiment passé sous les radars...
Je poste un lien vers un article en version française, que je n'avais pas encore pris le temps de lire :
https://journalducoin.com/exchanges/cryptopia-hack-inside-job-fondateur/.
C'est facile de dire ça après mais j'ai souvent pensé, que ce soit dans le cas de Cryptopia ou d'autres, que ces fameux 'hacks' (ce qui veut tout dire et ...rien finalement) pouvaient très bien avoir été perpétrés par des personnes internes aux exchanges ciblés, ou par leur entremise.
Vu le far west actuel niveau régulation, certaines doivent s'en donner à coeur joie. Une façon comme une autre d'épargner pour ses vieux jours ?
Je poste un lien vers un article en version française, que je n'avais pas encore pris le temps de lire :
https://journalducoin.com/exchanges/cryptopia-hack-inside-job-fondateur/.
C'est facile de dire ça après mais j'ai souvent pensé, que ce soit dans le cas de Cryptopia ou d'autres, que ces fameux 'hacks' (ce qui veut tout dire et ...rien finalement) pouvaient très bien avoir été perpétrés par des personnes internes aux exchanges ciblés, ou par leur entremise.
Vu le far west actuel niveau régulation, certaines doivent s'en donner à coeur joie. Une façon comme une autre d'épargner pour ses vieux jours ?
Salut,
Voici un article qui est un peu passe sous le radar.
Pour connaitre la femme d'un des deux fondateur et avoir visiter les locaux je dirais que je suis plutot enclin a croire ce que l'article dit.
Je pense qu'il y a 75% de chance que en effet l'article est ete ecrit par Rob Dawson
source :
https://steempeak.com/palnet/@vcdragon/version-of-the-story-of-cryptopia-from-developer-him-self-how-it-start-and-end?fbclid=iwar1gvicszyrsgp8mso03c2ctddkdzvxeqcvtwzd6hrlj7rgpkon-azv-meu
Voici un article qui est un peu passe sous le radar.
Pour connaitre la femme d'un des deux fondateur et avoir visiter les locaux je dirais que je suis plutot enclin a croire ce que l'article dit.
Je pense qu'il y a 75% de chance que en effet l'article est ete ecrit par Rob Dawson
Quote
here is in a version of the story of cryptopia from deve him self hex. I do belive him very much ty to his exchange i know all abuot crypto, i lost alot that crytopia die, that ok. but is not ok that bad guys win they take every thing from us now all we can do is let the world know this story, and hope for better. so guys plz read this story. ** is long but is real
Around January 2014 Adam and I started working on a project as a hobby called Cryptopia which was a website for Crypto enthusiasts including an exchange, mining pools, forums and other features. After the project started to materialize into something starting to resemble a finished product we incorporated the company Cryptopia in July 2014. In December 2014 when we thought we were ready we launched the website live into production. For the next few years we spent all of our free time working on Cryptopia and in 2015 I resigned from my full time job to keep working on Cryptopia while Adam continued at his job and working on Cryptopia in his spare time.
After I had burned through all my savings I needed to look at finding another job, Adam was currently working as a Developer for Intranel. Adam got me an interview at his work, but the day of the interview I instead went to see my parents and told them that I didn't know what I was asking them for but I felt like if I had to go back to working a regular job it was going to kill me. My parents took out $45,000 from their retirement fund to buy shares in the company so that Adam and I could use it to continue to work on Cryptopia.
Adam resigned from Intranel, but they said they didn't want to lose him and wanted to keep an eye on us so they offered a room in their office for rent, which we would pay for by Adam doing sprint code work for Intranel, and when they didn't have work for them they charged us cash. Intranel showed an interest very early on but Adam and I felt that we were handling things just fine on our own for the size we were and the work we were doing and didn't see any need to get them involved.
Intranel continued to show an interest in us, and after the beginning of 2017 when things really started to kick off and we started experiencing exponential growth at a scary pace we started to take Intranel's offers more seriously as neither of us identified ourselves as business men and only wanted to continue doing the development and innovation work we were already doing.
Intranel made us an offer that for 20% the company they would handle all of the business management and development, things like helping hiring and managing staff, paying tax, lobbying for regulator guidance, all the "boring business stuff" and that they would contract us out 4 of their FTEs at a discounted rate while they helped us find and hire staff of our own.
Instead of hiring staff for us they hired staff for themselves and continued to contract them out to us at exorbitant rates even including the agreed upon 30% discount, and put their staff in key managerial positions to allow themselves degrees of autonomy without seeking shareholder or director consent. If and when shareholder and or director consent was ever sought for anything, if the response they got was "No" they would just ignore it anyway.
They immediately set to playing games of divide and conquer and playing he said she said trying to pit us against each other and split us up. They would come to one for a request, get a no, go to the other for a yes, and then play us off against each other. Once we were reliant on the work they were doing for us and the staff they were providing for us they turned around and said they wanted an extra 5% of the shares or they would leave us high and dry with our engagements. To further divide us they insisted that I make up the extra 5% because they thought Adam was worth more to the company than I was.
Adam reached a point of frustration where they were trying to manage him and the work he was doing and how he should do it that he got fed up and resigned. They told me I should take a holiday so I don't get burned out like Adam, while I was away they simply stopped paying me. Not formally dismissed, no change of contract, no nothing. Just stopped paying me, and when I came back they told me they had given away my desk and there physically wasn't room for me in the building anymore, and wouldn't let me back.
After being a shareholder for 1 month, without shareholder or director approval or consent they issued a dividend. Adam and I never received this dividend. They also gave to themselves the same amount proportionately they claimed to have given Adam and I even though we'd been there for years and they had been a shareholder for a month. Again, Adam and I never actually received the dividend they say they issued.
The reason they forced the extra 5% was because they needed the extra shares to be able to block any major transaction the company tried to undertake so that we could not achieve a 75% threshold. They also used their position to veto listing policies in place to maintain the companies integrity in order to list and trade on coins their friends had made.
They sought director consent to create a company in the UK to act as our support desk, which we told them we didn't want them to do. They did it anyway, created it under their own names personally, and then again without director or shareholder consent issued themselves a loan for approximately $300,000 from the company to them personally for "startup costs".
They took on clients using our name for projects we said we weren't interested in or capable of, they assured us they were handling that work for themselves and they were just using our name as partners, they then billed us for that work. They issued invoices from Cryptopia for themselves, approved and paid them. They bled money everywhere they could, we paid for tax on their staff's flu shots? We paid for taxes on christmas gifts to their staff and our company bought the gifts. Everything they were unable to take for themselves they pissed into the wind on needless expenses and luxuries the company could not afford and engagements that ultimately buried us.
They made deals to list coins for a fee in Bitcoin instead of in the exchanges native coin DOT, this had negative impacts on the DOT markets and the ecosystem built around DOT as well as deprived CEFS holders of the DOT they would have received from those listings had they gone through the normal listing process.
They also stripped out all of the functionality from the site that wasn't purely an "exchange", dismantling the eco system that had been built and cultivated around our original slogan of "Your one stop Crypto shop" and aims to be a blockchain services platform and turned it into something completely foreign to the site that had been the initial draw for users.
They tried to sell the company out from under us 3 separate times.
If they had not been removed in November the company would have been bankrupt in December, but we didn't find this out until after we removed them forcibly, no one had any idea the dire situation they had gotten the company into, or that it would not have been able to afford their own next invoice.
I believe the Hack was orchestrated to bury everything they have done, and was planned to happen before we removed them so that it could tidily explain the state they had gotten the company into. And then rushed after their plan was interrupted when they were forcibly removed from the company.
They are now partnered with ANZ a bank that refused Cryptopia banking services, and PWC a firm that was supposed to be providing Cryptopia counsel on various legal matters, working on projects Cryptopia was gearing up to work on.
Around January 2014 Adam and I started working on a project as a hobby called Cryptopia which was a website for Crypto enthusiasts including an exchange, mining pools, forums and other features. After the project started to materialize into something starting to resemble a finished product we incorporated the company Cryptopia in July 2014. In December 2014 when we thought we were ready we launched the website live into production. For the next few years we spent all of our free time working on Cryptopia and in 2015 I resigned from my full time job to keep working on Cryptopia while Adam continued at his job and working on Cryptopia in his spare time.
After I had burned through all my savings I needed to look at finding another job, Adam was currently working as a Developer for Intranel. Adam got me an interview at his work, but the day of the interview I instead went to see my parents and told them that I didn't know what I was asking them for but I felt like if I had to go back to working a regular job it was going to kill me. My parents took out $45,000 from their retirement fund to buy shares in the company so that Adam and I could use it to continue to work on Cryptopia.
Adam resigned from Intranel, but they said they didn't want to lose him and wanted to keep an eye on us so they offered a room in their office for rent, which we would pay for by Adam doing sprint code work for Intranel, and when they didn't have work for them they charged us cash. Intranel showed an interest very early on but Adam and I felt that we were handling things just fine on our own for the size we were and the work we were doing and didn't see any need to get them involved.
Intranel continued to show an interest in us, and after the beginning of 2017 when things really started to kick off and we started experiencing exponential growth at a scary pace we started to take Intranel's offers more seriously as neither of us identified ourselves as business men and only wanted to continue doing the development and innovation work we were already doing.
Intranel made us an offer that for 20% the company they would handle all of the business management and development, things like helping hiring and managing staff, paying tax, lobbying for regulator guidance, all the "boring business stuff" and that they would contract us out 4 of their FTEs at a discounted rate while they helped us find and hire staff of our own.
Instead of hiring staff for us they hired staff for themselves and continued to contract them out to us at exorbitant rates even including the agreed upon 30% discount, and put their staff in key managerial positions to allow themselves degrees of autonomy without seeking shareholder or director consent. If and when shareholder and or director consent was ever sought for anything, if the response they got was "No" they would just ignore it anyway.
They immediately set to playing games of divide and conquer and playing he said she said trying to pit us against each other and split us up. They would come to one for a request, get a no, go to the other for a yes, and then play us off against each other. Once we were reliant on the work they were doing for us and the staff they were providing for us they turned around and said they wanted an extra 5% of the shares or they would leave us high and dry with our engagements. To further divide us they insisted that I make up the extra 5% because they thought Adam was worth more to the company than I was.
Adam reached a point of frustration where they were trying to manage him and the work he was doing and how he should do it that he got fed up and resigned. They told me I should take a holiday so I don't get burned out like Adam, while I was away they simply stopped paying me. Not formally dismissed, no change of contract, no nothing. Just stopped paying me, and when I came back they told me they had given away my desk and there physically wasn't room for me in the building anymore, and wouldn't let me back.
After being a shareholder for 1 month, without shareholder or director approval or consent they issued a dividend. Adam and I never received this dividend. They also gave to themselves the same amount proportionately they claimed to have given Adam and I even though we'd been there for years and they had been a shareholder for a month. Again, Adam and I never actually received the dividend they say they issued.
The reason they forced the extra 5% was because they needed the extra shares to be able to block any major transaction the company tried to undertake so that we could not achieve a 75% threshold. They also used their position to veto listing policies in place to maintain the companies integrity in order to list and trade on coins their friends had made.
They sought director consent to create a company in the UK to act as our support desk, which we told them we didn't want them to do. They did it anyway, created it under their own names personally, and then again without director or shareholder consent issued themselves a loan for approximately $300,000 from the company to them personally for "startup costs".
They took on clients using our name for projects we said we weren't interested in or capable of, they assured us they were handling that work for themselves and they were just using our name as partners, they then billed us for that work. They issued invoices from Cryptopia for themselves, approved and paid them. They bled money everywhere they could, we paid for tax on their staff's flu shots? We paid for taxes on christmas gifts to their staff and our company bought the gifts. Everything they were unable to take for themselves they pissed into the wind on needless expenses and luxuries the company could not afford and engagements that ultimately buried us.
They made deals to list coins for a fee in Bitcoin instead of in the exchanges native coin DOT, this had negative impacts on the DOT markets and the ecosystem built around DOT as well as deprived CEFS holders of the DOT they would have received from those listings had they gone through the normal listing process.
They also stripped out all of the functionality from the site that wasn't purely an "exchange", dismantling the eco system that had been built and cultivated around our original slogan of "Your one stop Crypto shop" and aims to be a blockchain services platform and turned it into something completely foreign to the site that had been the initial draw for users.
They tried to sell the company out from under us 3 separate times.
If they had not been removed in November the company would have been bankrupt in December, but we didn't find this out until after we removed them forcibly, no one had any idea the dire situation they had gotten the company into, or that it would not have been able to afford their own next invoice.
I believe the Hack was orchestrated to bury everything they have done, and was planned to happen before we removed them so that it could tidily explain the state they had gotten the company into. And then rushed after their plan was interrupted when they were forcibly removed from the company.
They are now partnered with ANZ a bank that refused Cryptopia banking services, and PWC a firm that was supposed to be providing Cryptopia counsel on various legal matters, working on projects Cryptopia was gearing up to work on.
source :
https://steempeak.com/palnet/@vcdragon/version-of-the-story-of-cryptopia-from-developer-him-self-how-it-start-and-end?fbclid=iwar1gvicszyrsgp8mso03c2ctddkdzvxeqcvtwzd6hrlj7rgpkon-azv-meu
cest mort de chez morts. Je viens de retrouver les adresses de mes wallets cryptopia: Debut mai, il ya eu des transferts de mes coins vers des wallets externes..
Derniéres infos.
Cryptopia veut securiser les serveurs et les données qui y sont stockées (porteurs de coins)
Cryptopia veut securiser les serveurs et les données qui y sont stockées (porteurs de coins)
mince alors... javais quelques coins dessus, mais je crois que c'etait rien de ouf si jai oublié cet exchange... tant pis, je ferais attention pour les actuels
Il semblerait que 375 000$ d'ether provenant du hack de Cryptopia ont été envoyé vers Etherdelta.
https://www.ccn.com/stolen-cryptopia-ether-move
Autre info qui devrait plaire (
) aux utilisateurs lésés : il semblerait que le fondateur (et ancien dev) de Cryptopia soit déja en train de se préparer à lancer un nouvel exchange : 'Assetylene'.
Même si Adam Clark affirme avoir debuté ce projet depuis longtemps, il faut reconnaitre qu'un lancement dans un proche délais serait pris comme un affront...
Sources : https://journalducoin.com/bitcoin/assetylene-fondateur-cryptopia-lance-nouvel-exchange/
https://cryptonaute.fr/assetylene-fondateur-defunte-bourse-cryptopia-retour/
https://www.ccn.com/stolen-cryptopia-ether-move
Autre info qui devrait plaire (
) aux utilisateurs lésés : il semblerait que le fondateur (et ancien dev) de Cryptopia soit déja en train de se préparer à lancer un nouvel exchange : 'Assetylene'.Même si Adam Clark affirme avoir debuté ce projet depuis longtemps, il faut reconnaitre qu'un lancement dans un proche délais serait pris comme un affront...
Sources : https://journalducoin.com/bitcoin/assetylene-fondateur-cryptopia-lance-nouvel-exchange/
https://cryptonaute.fr/assetylene-fondateur-defunte-bourse-cryptopia-retour/
Une Faq concernant cette liquidation est dispo :
https://support.cryptopia.co.nz/csm?id=kb_article&sys_id=20d84d54db69778084ed147a3a9619bc
A la lecture je pense qu'un espoir est permis, mais pas avant plusieurs mois. J'ai rien dessus perso, j'avais pris la fuite il y a bien longtemps, après que l'exchange ait mis 30jours à effectuer un retrait que j'avais demandé
https://support.cryptopia.co.nz/csm?id=kb_article&sys_id=20d84d54db69778084ed147a3a9619bc
A la lecture je pense qu'un espoir est permis, mais pas avant plusieurs mois. J'ai rien dessus perso, j'avais pris la fuite il y a bien longtemps, après que l'exchange ait mis 30jours à effectuer un retrait que j'avais demandé
on avait plus de nouvelles on comprend pourquoi
j'avais des coins sans valeur "actuelle" dessus...un peu les boules aussi
je ne comprend pas non plus pourquoi les coins stockés ne sont pas rendu.
A priori si je retrouve mes derniéres transactions avant hack (adresse cryptopia connue) je pourrais y voir les eventuel transactions a mon insu, vrai ?
Merci pour l'info en tout cas
j'avais des coins sans valeur "actuelle" dessus...un peu les boules aussi
je ne comprend pas non plus pourquoi les coins stockés ne sont pas rendu.
A priori si je retrouve mes derniéres transactions avant hack (adresse cryptopia connue) je pourrais y voir les eventuel transactions a mon insu, vrai ?
Merci pour l'info en tout cas
Vous n'êtes pas des débutants les mecs on laisse rien sur les exchange on rentre on vend on sort.Surtout que pour certains ce n'est pas la première fois qu'ils se font avoir avec des exchanges qui ferment du jour au lendemain.
Sur leur page d'accueil je cite :
Press release
15/05/2019
David Ruscoe and Russell Moore from Grant Thornton New Zealand were yesterday appointed liquidators of Cryptopia
Despite the efforts of management to reduce cost and return the business to profitability, it was decided the appointment of liquidators was, in the best interests of customers, staff and other stakeholders.
The liquidators are focused on securing the assets for the benefit of all stakeholders. While this process and investigations take place, trading on the exchange is suspended.
“Given the complexities involved we expect the investigation to take months rather than weeks.”
The liquidators are also working with independent experts and the relevant authorities with regards to the company’s obligations.
Grant Thornton will be contacting all customers and suppliers about its appointment in the next few days.
Further enquiries, please email [email protected]
Sur leur page d'accueil je cite :
Press release
15/05/2019
David Ruscoe and Russell Moore from Grant Thornton New Zealand were yesterday appointed liquidators of Cryptopia
Despite the efforts of management to reduce cost and return the business to profitability, it was decided the appointment of liquidators was, in the best interests of customers, staff and other stakeholders.
The liquidators are focused on securing the assets for the benefit of all stakeholders. While this process and investigations take place, trading on the exchange is suspended.
“Given the complexities involved we expect the investigation to take months rather than weeks.”
The liquidators are also working with independent experts and the relevant authorities with regards to the company’s obligations.
Grant Thornton will be contacting all customers and suppliers about its appointment in the next few days.
Further enquiries, please email [email protected]
C'est mort ! Les échanges sont pires que les banques, nous n'avons aucun recours.
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