The reason that evolutionarily important hypergamy is a problem in
society is that the that collectivism is able to incentivize/tempt the women to waste/misallocate resources in all forms of capital, including their own fertility. Women are given the reins on capital, including their own fertility, and thus they can (and will) prioritize contraception and expenditures which are not well planned from a return on capital perspective (because return on capital is not a priority of the female mindset). It will be difficult to find a counter example, even for example:
(this women is wasting her impressive capital and is presumably motivated by nurturing her aimless man who is suffering from the remnants of malaria)
Even in the least dysfunctional marriages where the female has for example birthed 2 or 3 children and is fulfilling her dutiful focus to nurture/raise them, she is availing of collectivized healthcare, collectivized education, and allowing indoctrination of her offspring with the pattern of increasing misallocation of resources that pervades collectivized society. Because women are biologically unmotivated to be astute long-term planners on complex analysis of the allocation of capital.
. Rather men must analyse the situation and how highly-collectivized (i.e. non-tribal) society has created problems.
because the entire reason that collectivized society exists is to organize the center of the bell curve, i.e. because at least up until the knowledge age, fixed capital was required for production. Thus in order to attain cooperation for the agricultural and industrial age, it was necessary to have redistribution of resources (or the apparency of it via collectivized debt and the resultant boom & bust) in order to attain the participation of the society as a whole both as workers and consumers. Large economies-of-scale were paramount, especially so in the industrial age, thus collectivized demand stimulation was crucial. I have theorized that the knowledge age is ameliorating the supremacy of the collectivized society paradigm because knowledge can’t be top-down transferred:
(c.f. the main theme of my first linked
It’s the antithesis of superrationality to presume that hypergamy will ever cease to exist, because a mix of R and K reproductive strategies is nature’s necessarily
mechanism for annealing resilency of the species. Top-down organization and teachings can never be resilient and dynamically adaptive to the unpredictable multi-dimensional solution space of our universe, unless the universe becomes computable which would thus require everything to be knowable a priori, which is the same as saying that nothing could exist. For all information to travel instantly to top-down controllers would require the speed-of-light to be not quantized, thus the past and future light cones of relativity would collapse into undifferentiated. Our very existence requires friction so that information is relativistic. Top-down systems can never be resilent (i.e. survive long-term), because they can’t adapt decentralized with low capital decentralized inputs. This is the fundamental reason that Kurzweil and his Singularity is entirely impossible. How can an AI which depends on a few dozen chip fabs be any where near as resilient as nature’s decentralized procreation via zillions of daily mutations and chemical reactions. Feeding entropy into AI is a top-down centralized process, even if the AI is feeding itself entropy, the limiting factor is the lack of non-deterministic (i.e. randomly bottom-up) chaos (i.e. Butterfly Effect) in the initial procreation conditions. In short, AI can only become truly alive if it becomes imperfect and randomized in it’s instantiation of itself, in which case it’s computational superiority will just be tool and implausible to attain universal dominance. Nature abhors a (n entropic) vacuum and thus can never be universally dominated by any given phenomenon. I had tried to explain this before:
Thus any belief system that asserts that a universally superior superrationality could be the basis of the improvement of humankind is an insane belief system that is directed towards destruction of the species. It’s not surprising that such insanity foments amongst those who have been indoctrinated by collectivized organizational institutions such as religion or leftism (i.e. both the right and left of the political sprectrum). Organized religion (but not necessarily a personal, private theology) exists to organize the center the bell curve.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:01am
He wants to invent some concept that is higher than nature. For him that is religion and God.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:03am
Western intellectuals think their intellect somehow defeats nature. How so?
ecash 11 Nov., 9:03am
Religion was an attempt to control nature. And it necessarily leaks/fails, because nature abhors a perfected, non-existence.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:06am
For example, CC’s ethics are actually evil. He wants to control men because he thinks they will father children they can not support. But this results in a clusterfucked totalitarianism. Man can not defeat nature.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:10am
> You argue that fighting nature is counter productive .. they argue that it is a necessary first step
Precisely reductionalist. Astute.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:13am
Nature anneals because everything in the Universe is necessarily relativistic. Otherwise everything would be nececessary computable and thus static (predictable).
ecash 11 Nov., 9:14am
We are in a relativistic game. There are no absolutes.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:14am
Every order we construct is ultimately fleeting.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:16am
The Bible does contain this wisdom. It says let no man be surety for another.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:19am
The global elite have the problem of how to deal with the tyranny of the mob. Their problem is they have huge fixed assets they have to protect. Thus they must pursue enslavement paradigms.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:28am
I tend to not fight losses nor litigate for this entropic reason.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:28am
I figure there is always some new greener pasture of opportunity to pursue instead.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:31am
Westerners want a static improvement. They want to bank everything and it last forever. Their approach to religion is the same.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:31am
They want to believe they have found some perfect order.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:55am
The elite are eventually walking themselves into a total ordering with the NWO, which means they will enslave themselves. But initially the reduction in nation-state barriers might increase degrees-of-freedom.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:12am
They will be enslaved by the fact that a total order lacks any growth.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:13am
A total ordering stops any economic development. The free market has to leave. The actors in the economy are not able to pursue opportunities.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:13am
An absolute totalitarian NWO would collapse into absolute death, as the Bible predicts.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:49am
Until AI becomes essentially biological with the relativistic risks we face, then it will not be sentient w.r.t. to being a non-deterministic actor.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:50am
AI lacks entropy.
ecash 11 Nov., 10:55am
AI needs a relavistic game to become alive in a sense that we can appreciate. Until then it is just a machine/tool being leveraged by some humans. AI will need to transfer itself to a biological form in order to be resilient. When it does that, it will lose its computational speed advantage.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:02am
Nature is a massively parallelized free market. AI is some highly ordered narrowly focused phenomenon.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:04am
It is a fundamental truth that the universe can not be computable. As I stated earlier, if it could be than the Universe would be predictable and static. Thus just making a faster computation does not imply dominance of the universe.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:06am
Think about how to define “intelligience on silicon”.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:06am
What is intelligence?
ecash 11 Nov., 11:08am
Man is not only intelligent but each instance is also biologically unique in a relativistic, entropic way. As you said, we can not control how the kids will turn out. It is a crapshoot.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:09am
> I would approximate it as something which can either meet or exceed the performance of the average human mind
By which metric? The metric that matters is resilience (adaptability to an non-computable, non-predictable future). And you can not compute nor measure that.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:16am
Because top-down systems are not anti-fragile. The proof will be along the lines of Taleb’s math.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:16am
Top-down systems are expedient. And AI is definitely expedient.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:17am
The complexity of nature is not computable. Not measurable. Because how do you measure “now” as it is gone before you measure it.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:18am
To measure the universe would require the speed-of-light to not be quantized, so that all information could travel instantly to the measurer.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:26am
I believe there are ways to formally show that top-down systems can not be sustained forever. The fundamental law of thermo tells us that entropy trends to maximum, thus top-down systems are counter-trend, although expedient. I think we can find some inspiration from Taleb’s math for showing that top-down systems are not anti-fragile, i.e. they overcommit to information which is not well fit. And similarly we can see in Godel’s incompleteness theorems that there can be no consistent complete set of computable axioms.
ecash 11 Nov., 11:27am
Have I not already with what I stated? How can the entropy trend to maximum if top-down systems are perpetually sustainable?
ecash 11 Nov., 11:36am
Are humans more intelligent than ants? If ants are more resilient does that make them more intelligent? But having a relationship with an ant would not be that interesting to me, because I can not reproduce nor communicate with an ant. I think my relationship with A.I. will similarly lack some purpose that can entirely replace human interaction (which is all motivated by sustaining decentralized procreation of our species!).
ecash 11 Nov., 11:38am
> I'm not convinced that the ultimate intelligence is one which is produced by biological entropy.
What other kind of entropy is there? When I say biological, I mean everything in Physics. AI is some limited phenomenon that is built in chip fabs requiring great top-down managed capital.
ecash 11 Nov., 9:42pm
Btw, I did not intend to imply that AI could not have impacts which might even create the temporary illusion of some of the outcomes that people fear. Over a long enough period time though AI can not attain absolute dominance. And I think the highest probability outcome is that humans adapt AI into their continued dominance. Any technology could potentially cause any particular species to go extinct. It still doesn’t follow that AI will dominate the universe, nature, and every species in it.
> How far away are we from being able to transfer knowledge between two brains?
Irrelevant.
This question exemplifies that our discussion of AI was not convincing enough to sway your fundamental tendency to think that top-down control is competitive w.r.t. long-term resiliency.
> My question has nothing to do with top-down control
> I'm questioning how long the assumption that knowledge is not fungible will be correct.
You have not yet reasoned through that your question can only be true if there is top-down control over brains.
Thus your question had everything to do with top-down control.
You are fundamentally making the error in presuming that a process which is fungible could be anti-fragile. Any system which can render all brains fungible will destroy the species.
We had this discussion yesterday in the context of AI. Systems which are not procreative in a highly decentralized process where each actor is unique, are not as adaptable as systems which are more expedient and ordered.
Now CoinCube had a good rebuttal. He showed that too much decentralization can actually lose valuable information. My retort is that subsets of top-down control exist within decentralized systems. And that systems are not perfectly decentralized, i.e. actors create subsets and coordinate. His rebuttal was based on a biological model of cells in a petri dish.
> So your claim is .. that which is fungible will be destroyed?
Must be the case if the trend of entropy is to be inexorable. And is it not always the case throughout history.
We need fungibility for cooperation and coordination. But fungible systems rise exponentially (they are expedient) and waterfall collapse. The decentralized diversity continues to adapt. I think I read about an asteroid destroyed all but a few of the humans on the planet yet our species survived, because procreation is highly decentralized and requires very little capital to procreate.
So AI may rise exponentially and seem to be fulfilling our fears. But as a top-down system, it can collapse due to any of a number of black swans.
>> You have not yet reasoned through that your question can only be true if there is top-down control over brains.
>
> That's not an argument.
Huh? To be able to transfer knowledge into brains (in a way that that it can be utilized for anything) means that all brains become fungible or that some group has exclusive access. The former is the destruction of all original thought, thus of course it can not exist. The latter is top-down control.
Without friction, spacetime could not be quantized and thus nothing could exist. Past and future light cones of relativity would collapse into each other. Everything would be simultaneously past and future.
> For instance, I could develop a material that could act as an implant, interact with brain neurons, as well as with an external machine.
The idiocy of dreaming about top-down solutions and then come to find out that nature will route around every top-down idiocy that one can fantasize about.
> You've been pondering this awhile obviously, so yes, you'll have to put more work into the arguments to do your ideas justice.
It would be like to trying to argue against feminism with feminists.
> What is your definition of "top down" ?
That you think you could render brains or even sectors of a brain fungible. Ha. Good luck.
We already established that dynamic systems are not computable and not measurable , because “now” is gone before you can measure it and these systems never stand still. So exactly how are you going to determine if you fantasy invention has made everything fungible?
In short, nature abhors a vacuum.
> So you're claiming that knowledge fungibility and brain fungibility are identical.
Well no. If you can transfer information between brains yet the information is processed non-fungibility, then information can not be transferred. Because each outcome will do something different. So then the thesis of my essay is maintained.
Essentially we are talking about Chaos theory.
It is unfortunate that most men idolize Kruzweil. It is as bad as the disease of socialism and feminism. And AGW and other junk science.
I realize that most men are latched on to a SciFi theme (too much Star Trek) and they irrationally think that Chaos can be subverted with technology.
It is a fundamental propaganda error probably as harmful as feminism. Because it has caused men in your age bracket to think that some SciFi magic is going to substitute for decentralized procreation. I think it is causing men to be apathetic.
Nature (the universe) will always route around any top-down order which is decreasing the diversity and distribution of uncertainty. Top-down order is necessary along the way of advancing the trend towards greater bottom-up disorder, but these top-down orders are fleeting and are discarded when they become inhibting to the trend towards maximum entropy. Nature abhors any top-down order which attempts to permanently reverse the trend. So the concept of fungible knowledge transfer is the antithesis of a sustainable human species. Nature would destroy such a human species. So pursuing top-down innovations are useful, but the fantasy of a universal effect such as making all knowledge transfer fungible or the absolute dominance of AI, can only be reality if they are self-destructive in outcome.
So pursuing study of technology is not useless. But these idiotic Kurzweil fantasies of replacing decentralized procreation with a sentient and dominant AI or anything of that sort of meglomania, is purely for idiots who were vulnerable to other such meglomania propaganda such as feminism, AGW, etc.. CoinCube also has these fantasies and he is in your age bracket. Technology is useful, but nature is still the most important. This is why I am ENTP and not INTJ, because I guess a long time ago my brain intuitively decided that humanity was as important as technology. Or maybe vice versa, that I came to that understanding because I was innately ENTP. I would need to analyse my youth more to try to determine that hen-egg question.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:17pm
> From a purely logical standpoint, your time is better spent developing than popping out children
How can you be contented only studying? Then we come back to what is the value of intelligence. Aren’t we here because of our species. What meaning would life have if you were the only human that existed?
ecash 11 Nov., 6:26pm
You may be correct about it is efficient to just avoid the entire reproduction morass.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:28pm
Well yeah. But I do go into introvert mode.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:29pm
I think there is value in being able to do both well.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:48pm
> This should be an easy decision for you .. you've already had kids. You know if the juice will be worth the squeeze for round 2.
Of course it is not worth it if I do it within the existing system.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:49pm
Absolutely no way I will raise a child in the society we have now.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:50pm
I think about changing the world. Creating a decentralized society. Being a leader.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:50pm
Because I am ENTP. I do not innately want to curl up in a cave.
ecash 11 Nov., 6:50pm
I prefer to lead.
ecash 11 Nov., 7:00pm
I do need to decide whether I am just going to be a bachelor banging different girls who pop in and out of my life, or if I am going to try to find a way to have a relationship (which of course requires procreation).
ecash 11 Nov., 7:04pm
But if we’re banging girls and employing contraception, then we are contributing to destruction of those women. We are effectively abusing every woman. Because we are gaming their hypergamy but not giving them the pregnancies that are the reason they have hypergamy. And that is down right evil. I feel not good about it.
ecash 11 Nov., 7:04pm
Do unto others…
ecash 11 Nov., 7:05pm
So the banging chicks and using contraception does not sit well with me. I was doing it for a while and then I realized I was just destroying these women.
ecash 11 Nov., 7:43pm
In terms of leaving our mark on history, novel ideas for organizing procreation could possibly be near the top end of possible accomplishments.
ecash 12 Nov., 6:18am
Again my problem with your life strategy at this point is you’re defecting from society entirely and doing exactly what destroys all of the women and the society. Of course you do this because the society has decided to destroy itself and does not give you other viable options. But this is defeatist. An alpha male makes war in some clever way, leads, and refuses to be destroyed.
I was hoping you were alpha. I have been hoping to meet another man or group of men who are sufficiently alpha to actually do something and not just blahblah about how bad things are
I am ENTP because I do not want to defect entirely from humanity. INTJ’s such as yourself or CoinCube, actually defect in ways that have bad outcomes for one sector of the society. CoinCube has decided males are fundamentally evil and that women are victims that need to be protected by the State. You have decided that you can not fight the State and thus use female hypergamy to destroy them by employing contraception.
So the point is that if you do not impregnate, then you are destroying the fertility capital of the female. Thus destroying society. Yet if you do impregnate, then the society destroys you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
ecash 12 Nov., 6:24am
As you astutely wrote, ideas are useless if men are incapable of implementing them.
ecash 12 Nov., 9:40am
The rise of PUAs and criminals to alpha in female preference is due to absence of real alphamale leaders of tribes. Thus females preference was redirected to the apparency of alphamale qualities, without the substance they need to be successful in the evolutionary environment. White men have been castrated by the Zionists and the society and species is under threat. This is Revelation as it is written. And alphamales still exist then they should be acting right about now, as I am contemplating doing.
ecash(LinuxMintMate)12 Nov., 7:16am
> unless you're in the rare situation where you happen to agree with everything your leader does.
I am pondering if it is possible to organize a (decentralized?) society wherein the males agree on some certain principles and otherwise they are free to disagree on other matters.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:00am
You just assume you have to be under the rule of a government which was forced on you. Because you are thinking like a beta male.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:01am
Genghis Khan could be an apt role model. But let’s switch tactics to the modern technologies.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:01am
I think his DNA is in 1/4 of the population of the world.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:02am
I do not know if I am alpha enough to pull it off. Probably not (certainly not while still infected with evidently multi-drug resistant Tuberculosis). But that is what I am analysing now.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:09am
And that is what I want to teach young boys and young men. Teach them to embrace their competitive nature. And for the betterment of both men and women (but in the context of dealing with female hypergamy correctly).
ecash(LinuxMintMate)12 Nov., 9:43am
> You don't have to be Genghis Kahn. If your ideas are worthy of it, they will echo millenia into the future.
Not if white men are totally incapable because they have been castrated by propaganda.
ecash(LinuxMintMate)12 Nov., 7:20am
>
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-11/if-saudi-arabia-situation-doesnt-worry-you-youre-not-paying-attentionThis is an example of how centralized power structure is corrupt and eventually self-destructs.
ecash(LinuxMintMate)12 Nov., 7:20am
Because they are all fighting over the same assets. The oil fields. They are not leveraging their own personal productivity.
ecash(LinuxMintMate)12 Nov., 7:21am
> Regarding the organization of society, this of course will take a lot of thought. My first inclination is to study what works in nature. Voting systems in ant colonies. Neurons cooperating with each other in the brain. Mycellium finding optimal pathways to collect resources.
This is sort of brainstorming path I am on now.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:23am
We need a meritocracy, which thus requires that there are not legacy assets that men can fight over because their control can not be determined by a meritocracy.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:23am
That is one of the key insights.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:23am
We need to shift from passive income to active income.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:24am
It is the shift away from the industrial age and fixed capital investment to the knowledge age that causes a huge paradigm shift.
ecash 12 Nov., 7:24am
> Right now, the passive income motivates the active income.
And I argue all of that is dying.
By meritocracy based on active investment in the Internet-enabled knowledge age, I mean
, but rather producing your own work and direct selling it into the marketplace and having no one to complain/whine to but yourself, for your failure or success.
was in a different thread.
.