Topic: [DASH] Dash - Building the IoM | Dash Nation Progress Thread - page 25. (Read 41820 times)

Don't really care if a bunch wall street wannabees trying to ride the coattails of Satoshi are alienated or not. But go on rolling under the flags of decentralization and In Satoshi We Trust, because anyone one who gives a shit is going to notice that the most cryptoanarchist thing Evan ever said was one of the least cryptoanarchist things ever said--I'll say it again, the dash community is filled with posers. The reason you can't build a decentralized cash is because you forgot to read the literature on how to build a decentralized cash.

I believe "GTFO" is the usual term The trolleros aren't doing themselves many favours, I guess they've not figured there are 2 distinct cultures in this place and their efforts to appeal to one are the kind of thing that totally alienates the other

I was not referring to you but to TPTB with the "guess who did" question. And I just had a Heureka moment, now that you use TPTB in context...and I just realized I kept googling for TBTP, because all I could find was nonsensical stuff like http://www.acronymfinder.com/TBTP.html 

I agree with your comments about investigation in general, although not in full, because it is not like no authority ever investigates anything and people like TPTB portray a lot of crypto projects as such obvious and harmful crimes - comparing them to murder and rape and Evan to Karpeles and Co. -  it would be possible to get them prosecuted if what he says was actually true (see Karpeles). I just know TPTB from projects I happen to be interested and yes, invested in (which he keeps interpreting to my disadvantage, insinuating I was only defending the Devs in questions for money motives).
I have a high sense of fairness and justice and I simply hate it when people are slandered. I think I only lost my temper ONCE and alluded to the Monero-Scam accusations in one of the inumerable threads where "you guys" keep harping about the "instamine". It was my "and you think you have room to talk"-card moment, but I am actually sorry about, because I don`t know enough about it and I highly value the "in dubio pro reo" principle. Me sense is that you guys don`t.
After what you just wrote, I`d actually expect you to reign in on your comrades, because imho you should  agree that "scam" is far too harsh and simply unfair. "Expect" in the sense I`d be somewhat surprised if you did not, because what you point out is a matter of taste and nothing criminal. I really dislike Ripple for instance, but I don`t call it a "scam" (and yes, I know that word is being thrown around very lightly on this Forum, but "you guys" are actually dead serious about it).
So to be clear: I have no problem whatsoever if you call DASH and instamined centralized shitcoin with inferior technology, if that happens to be your opinion (repeating it in every DASH or non DASH thread is annoying, but I can ignore that). But to depict Evan Duffield as a criminal, is simply too much in my book and I read the accusations for 2 years now and I still did not see any actual proof of him knowingly doing anything wrong in the criminal sense. Same goes for Dor Konforty from Synereo or Come-from-Beyond from IOTA.

So ceterum censeo: go to the police if it is that bad or shut up (in general, not addressing you now).

I was hardly playing the "moral society card"--I was playing the "and you think you have room to talk" card, but maybe I misconstrued your criticism of The Powers That Be_need_war, and if that is the case, I'm sorry for taking you out of context and the harsh response.

As for the scam accusations, depending on the TPTB to investigate and come to the right conclusion (if they investigate at all) turns a blind eye to the corruption, incompetence, unevenness these originations have displayed over the years, decades, and centuries--this is the main reason we are trying to create decentralized technologies that are antifragile enough that they can't interfere with information socities that want to govern themselves. My main criticism isn't the instamine of dash, it's that its enablers parrot Satoshi's name and decentralization and other cryptoanarchist's views while managing to creep more and more centralization into their model. That's a huge problem for me, and if you knew TPTB_need_war from his economic threads, you'd realize I'm the softer, gentler (less idealistic) side of the movement, so it's an even bigger problem for him. He's a pit bull and anyone who cares about decentralizing society from the grasping hands of the sociopaths who currently run the world is glad to have him here and fighting the good fight. I'm sorry my political views force me to be critical of your investment, but I'm hardly changing them because they inconvenience you or any other investor.  

I am not sure I understand every word but I sense a certain interest for the truth I usually don`t when discussing with "you guys" (see above) and I`d be happy to apologize to you (and put you in my personal box of less obnoxious Monero fans, along with DeBruyne).
So to explain: I have no idea where TBTP lives, nor would I know (or care) he is American, if he did not keep lecturing me about the how the "US society" (his words) has decided this and that. I was actually making fun of him, because of the imho ridiculous mixing of "society" and "government/law enforcement" and the collectivist undertone he has.
So no, I was not trying to pull the "superior moral society card" (but guess who did?), as I don`t think in that moronic collectivist terms. I was just pointing out, that if the DASH/Synereo/Alleged Crypto-Madoff of the day TPTB is currently chasing is so evil and harmful according to the "US society" he considers himself speaking for, well, "we" have some moral/legal standards that put those to blame that do nothing against it and not call for the police to prosecute the evil doers and waste the time on internet forums instead of actually DOING SOMETHING against the alleged scammers, so that all the potential new investors are actually protected, if he really cares so much about them.

So my ceterum censeo to all the Instamine warriors: GO TO THE FUCKING POLICE/SEC!

Trying to silence me because I`m German still speaks for itself imho. Chapeau.


PS:
What does TBTP even mean and why does "it" want war?!?!? Edit: Oh, it "needs" war, sorry. I keep forgetting how his nic is spelled...TTPB, TBTP, TPTB....

Again, "bullies" and "decentralized?" You need to fact check your statements as I'm just a critic (who happens to be right, at least in regard to X11's flawed nature, the instamine, and dash's centralization) and your coin has no right calling itself decentralized as there was a huge instamine and those coins are likely positioned in masternodes collecting more coins to add to dash's centralization. See how I use facts and common sense to station my narrative? You should try it someday.

Good morning all.

A big thank you goes out to the patient readers of this thread, in particular I would like to thank the newbie accounts for coming forward on the side of progress, optimism and decentralized technology.

The narrative about Dash on BCT has been controlled by the school-boy bullies for the last two years, and they don't want to give up this control so easily. But make no mistake, Dash will define itself, just do your own research with the wealth of information the team has given you here. It's genuinely appreciated.

The school-yard bullies don't define Dash. We define ourselves.

I won't be around much today, very busy schedule. I'd love to hear from more readers.

Respectfully,

Tao (Dash Nation Campaign Founder)

For the records, I only told one single American - not "Americans" -  who keeps telling me (and other foreigners) how the "US society" views this and that what the legal framework in my country is. I know that`s hard to grasp for many group-thinking individuals, Germans and Americans alike.

Anyway, I think you truly deserve the Godwin award for the most embarassing comment. You Monero-Trolls never fail to amaze me. And to be precise, with "Monero Trolls" I am not referring to every Monero supporter (myself, for instance, who still kind of likes it, because I really try to separate the impression you guys give from the actual project), but to you, smooth and Icebreaker (TTPB is not one of you, afaik).

Oh...and please go to the police. Or at least make sure you think correctly that Evan is already being investigated. It`s your duty to do so, isn`t it? Unless you are full of shit and hot air that is.

Wow, a German telling Americans that what they shouldn't turn a blind eye to--just f'ing wow. Anyways we do have good Samaritan laws in some states, but AFAIK they don't apply to SEC or FinCen, just violent behavior. Though I think some people have contacted authorities concerning Evan's actions, so an investigation could be ongoing. I'm gonna go watch Schindler's List and count how many international laws were broken while the populous sat on their hands--or do we act like those things didn't happen because they are more than a year in the past?

 

http://www.bka.de/
http://www.bafin.de/DE/Startseite/startseite_node.html

Please, please report me. I will help you translate everything to clean my soul of my tremendous crimes and alleviate your conscience when you finally stop to passively witness the brutal rape of generations of future DASH investors.
Come on TBBT, you can do it! Bring justice to us! GO TO THE POLICE!!!

Quoted for your government's future investigations. In addition to your boastful defiance of USA law and I suspect international treaties of the G20 to mutually enforce each other's laws, you may have an even bigger problem. Apparently you may be promoting and condoning what may be illegal actions under German securities law:

http://uk.practicallaw.com/1-501-2097#a165703 (pay attention to the "open market" case)
http://uk.practicallaw.com/1-501-2097#a376738

Poor USA. How can the "society" turn a blind eye on the vicious people witnessing severe crimes without helping?
I can`t see the crimes, so I have no reason to go to the police and I am confident that a judge would believe me.
But you and smooth are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo sure about ongoing crimes you are witnessing for 2 years and you STILL do nothing to stop it. GO. TO. THE. POLICE. Fast.

ftfy

I don't live in Germany. We have no such law in the USA. Do you enjoy incriminating yourself.

Yippie, the other paranoid troll has arrived. Great. Smooth, same advice to you: Go to the authorities. Go to the police or SEC or whatever authority you deem responsible of taking care of those tremendous crimes. Please do. It is you civic duty and moral obligation. As I already told TTBP, I would not wait for 2 years and waste my time on internet forums, if I was witnessing such atrocious crimes. Put your feet where your mouth is and GO TO THE POLICE.
In german law there is the concept of "unterlassene Hilfeleistung", "failure to render assistance".  You are culpable of not doing everything in your power to save those poor new investors, which makes you a culprit/co-conspirator as well. Up to 5 years in prison in Germany, don`t take that lightly ("Nichtanzeige geplanter Straftaten"; § 138 of german penal law).

That's kind of true. That post is old and missing a lot of new information. I'll get around to updating it one of these days. Dnaleor's writeup is also good, and more readable than mine (but also missing some things).


Agree. They can improve their disclosure any time they want. Given that there have been multiple revisions and new statements, and the disclosure has gotten no better and possibly worse, they don't want.

That information has already been compiled:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-the-darkcoindashdashpay-instamine-matters-999886

smooth don't fall for this disingenuous game. This is a well known obfuscation tactic. The opposer will demand you do more work to repeat the work you already did, and will demand this over and over again even after you repeat it N times, until you get tired and give up.

That`s why I had suggested you compile a document with all the info you consider vital to be put on Dash.org. I would support that. I am all in favor of transparency and imho the DASH team has nothing to hide.
Of course (audiatur est altera pars), the DASH team would be allowed to a response.
In case you kept bitching about the instamine after that, it would help the poor new investors in determing what your agenda actually is.
Who knows, maybe you and your buddies are the ones they should be warned about?

Jesus.. We have Mother Theresa here wanting to help the crypto community.

When will you realize complaining and trying to impose your opinions on others is not the way to get people on your coin? Instead of wasting your time on this why don't you build up your coin so that it is better than DASH?

You and your friends have been at this for years. Stop wasting your time. If it truly is a scam then you have warned people, and if it is not a scam then you look like an idiot. Regardless, what is to gain wasting your time focusing on DASH you're not even invested in it?  

I admire your perseverance. If I were you I would have dropped this a long time ago and focused on my own projects.

But I am no Mother Theresa.

I don't know what information he has considered but it is certainly plausible the information he's seen has been deceptive, misleading, incomplete or some combination, given everything I've already pointed out about how Dash presents it. That is exactly the information that Tone saw, before he dug deeper.

It is easy to say "the information is out there" but it isn't always easy to find everything especially for people (such as Tone and Trace) who are involved with a lot of different activities and have limited time to spend researching any particular coin.

Anyway, this isn't about making me happy. There are specific items I have pointed out are either relevant and missing or flat out incorrect in Dash communications about the topic. It doesn't matter whether you make smooth happy or not. Either way, go improve the disclosure. Or don't, but you are scamming if you don't.

Well, you certainly know the principle "audiatur est altera pars". It does not say the other party HAS to accept your view, but that your view shall be heard. You are basically saying that nothing would make you happy, which I understand, because it`s not about new investors, who can then decide if they care or not about the alleged "scam". You want your view on the matter imposed on everybody and can`t accept a different view, simply because you are the leading dev of a competing project, which is why I call bullshit on your hypocrisy. You want this saga to continue. In my book this is called trolling, but hey, who am I to tell you what to do. Tone can also think what he wants. I am sure you won`t quote him if he was ever to change his mind again. Trayce Mayer is fine with the research he did:
http://www.bitcoin.kn/2016/02/dash-lead-developer-evan-duffield-discusses-cryptocurrency-experimentation/
Now what? Is he also deluded or culpable as everyone is who does not accept your slanderous presentation of so called facts?