Topic: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 - page 11. (Read 4633 times)

So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.


P.S. Ill put your few years of hobby mining up against my years of experience in this industry if you want to brag about how long you have been doing it.

And another who took the RED PILL and knows the truth.

It took me a couple of years from 2014 to figure this out before I got out of ASIC mining and stopped supporting BITMAIN.

Welcome, and keep spreading the RED PILL to others.

Regards,

David

aka:  ProwdClown on Trading View and ZCash Forum:  https://www.tradingview.com/u/ProwdClown/         https://forum.z.cash/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/2295

I used to be like you when I first began mining in June, 2014.  I was always there to support BITMAIN and defend them from those who spoke ill of them.

HOWEVER, as I continued in the mining space longer I began to see how one company's domination of the space was a threat to decentralization.  That domination also created many other benefits for Bitmain.  Especially, in the trading space to make it easier for them to manipulate markets.  The list goes on and on.

I hope some day you will also take the RED PILL instead of remaining content in your ignorance.

Do NOT think when I use the word, "ignorance" that I'm insulting your intelligence; because I'm NOT.  For I too was IGNORANT at one time.

I believe the majority of devs for alt-coins would agree ASIC's [At this current time] are a plague to this space.  Mainly because one manufacturer runs the show and therefore risks centralization of mining by one dominant party with potentially more than 50% of the network hash.

NO ONE COMPANY should be trusted with the manufacturing and distribution of money printing machines.

With that said, I can see your point and agree with you in regards to AN INDIVIDUAL being oppressed by their government in regards to hardware costs, import duties, VAT, etc... to price you out of being profitable as a GPU miner.  I'm sorry, but for the sake of decentralization in mining of a coin, we cannot throw decentralization of mining to the winds so those who are oppressed by their government can mine with hardware that WILL NOT PROMOTE DECENTRALIZATION IN MINING.

YOU are the one who is whining!

I suggest you invest your energy and efforts towards your oppressive CENTRALIZED government rather than complaining about the community of a DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY not cooperating with your oppressive CENTRALIZED government to make getting into mining more financially viable for you.

Thanks for having an open mind and taking the RED PILL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=P6B-ZCyP6K8

Vote submited ... you know my choice my friend

Another idiot stating some kind of "natural progression of things."

The developers of a blockchain decide WHAT is to be "natural" on their blockchain and what "progression" is to occur on their blockchain.  If the developers determine they want an ASIC-Resistance algorithm, then they have determined what they want to be "natural" on their algorithm and what will or will not "progress" on their algorithm.

NOTE the following excellent proposal for PROG POW algorithm:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=P6B-ZCyP6K8

PROG POW LINK:  https://github.com/ifdefelse/ProgPOW

All you're doing is proving to the community you're nothing more than a "Shill" for BITMAIN.

Who the hell is this NEWBIE?  You have absolutely NO CLUE what the hell you are talking about and only worthy of an "ignore."

GPU Miners are supposedly all "greedy."  Yet, this idiot makes no comments as to BITMAIN's greed and desire to control and dominate the entire PoW space.

Simply ignore this ASIC-Shill.

I'd like to share some thoughts on the criticism that zcash is moving away from being decentralized with ASIC equihash miners coming out. The zcash network hashrate is already centralized and has been for a while. Flypool has had over 51% of the nethash for A REALLY REALLY long time, and that hasn't been criticized nearly as much as it should be. Why? Because miners love the luck flypool provides, and the money that comes with it.

I agree with this statement. Seeing that the Z9 mini consumes only 300 watts while in operation, it tells me that this miner has a small handful of ASIC chips inside. Bitmain has definitely made this miner underpowered, which is a good strategy since it's still enough to wipe off all GPU's anyway, and still give the owners of these miners a reasonable profit. From a marketing point of view it was a great move to not build their most powerful ASIC at first, and instead released an underpowered one at a hugely inflated price with phenomenal margins.

If Zcash doesn't fork, they'll come out with a more powerful variant with a TDP of 1000-1600 watts, and it'll be 5-10x more powerful but with similar efficiency ratings, and probably a similar pricepoint. Bitmain's playing this game smart.

I'm imagining my mining room full samsung galaxy s9 plus LMAO.

Yes it was and the next innovation will be moving from gpus/asics etc.. to a mobile mining/staking coin process, the next step in decentralization will be with mobiles, everybody has it, a blockchain in every mobile.

bribed or not the their mining cut/tax remains...so why bother?

I was also thinking, why make ETH ASICs this late if ETH is going for POS? the manufacturers must be selling used mining equipment..

...maybe we should look beyond "algos" because being an algo is what makes mining cpu-gpu-fpga-asic compatible..ever increasing DAG sure made ASICs a bit late I believe..equihash is an easier job for ASIC companies.

DAG was something, since you need a hard drive for it..until developers learned how to put them inside GPU memory....waiting for the next innovation 

There is no "truly ASIC resistant algo" forever, if you are a developer, you need to keep updating your own algo 6 in 6 months to render the previous useless. That is how is done. It's not about they are not smart to, it seems they dont want to cause they probably were already bribed by asic companies to keep as it is.

either money is involved or ZEC co. is just too proud to admit that they aren't smart enough to make a truly ASIC resistant algo hehe

Not only him, every developer who let bitmain do anything they like. I would stay away from all of those coins, also put in that list ripple, stellar and any scamcoin like them.

It's pretty obvious that Zooko took a bribe from Bitmain.

nice burn

they did !!! as expected... but who knows... they have deep pockets and it may just be the beginning.... or the end !


sometime evident questions are left out of the price, but once they return... .


One poster wrote it earlier...

Why stop mining? if it is the most profitable dump it !!!

and then as he said, nice post by the way, is about locking user in to have captives, that they call "community". with gpus and fpgas you can switch at will, with asics, the algos must be used by other great chain and devs... dispersion etc.