Pages:
Author

Topic: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 - page 10. (Read 4633 times)

full member
Activity: 729
Merit: 114
Seeing someone saying gpus lead to centralization and then suggesting the problem to that is ASICs is fucking hilarious. Get over yourself dude.


I yup I pretty much thought the same and avoided to post a response explaining the centralization rationale with GPUs and ASICs.  The bottomline is: true, centralization could be achieved even with GPUs but the likelyhood of that happening with GPUs is much much lower than that of ASICs.  I mean you've a live example isn't it?
https://medium.com/@homakov/stop-calling-bitcoin-decentralized-cb703d69dc27
jr. member
Activity: 186
Merit: 4
Seeing someone saying gpus lead to centralization and then suggesting the problem to that is ASICs is fucking hilarious. Get over yourself dude.
member
Activity: 126
Merit: 10
cryptomined  ignore fanatic26  he doesn't appear to be the real fanatic from a while back, I honestly think hes a paid troll from some place trying to piss us off and wants everything ASIC when both GPUs and ASIC can exist to gather ..

toptek

That's my old account some one hacked,I'm trying to get back I'm the real owner who would not do what ever that jerk is doing to my account to make it be marked red sigh ..........
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 8
gameboy366 >  fanatic26  is like a trump troll who lies and make shit up so he can act like his idea of capitalism is the best one an even says it look at what he runs .. sigh ....He doesn't want GPU around any more and wants to shut out the little guy but will act like he doesn't but doesn't care, i can list all his BS an why he thinks CROPS should rule but won't but will in a few words "look up trump ..." He bought Bone Spur's trump into it not me .

I love this assumption:  "You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought." I wish there was a Mueller for ASIC to prove just how bad ASIC is ...

why can't GPU's exist with ASIC there is NO reason why not other then the greedily bastards have to much an now they want it all.
One should also keep in mind about the possibility of interacting with Bitmain's own 50 cent army. CCP spends billions of dollars on their "50 cent army" in trying to manipulate public opinion in favour of them by using internet trolls. I am sure Bitmain is also running a similar "army" which is active here on Bitcointalk. One should still keep these things in mind.
member
Activity: 126
Merit: 10
So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.

Look dude, I'm done with you.  

This is my last response to you.  You're being ignored after this post.

I'm not even going to waste my valuable time responding to you.  I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours.  Why?  Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it.

Good riddance...  Not wasting my time with you anymore.

I'm still LMAO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  "I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours.  Why?  Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it."

member
Activity: 126
Merit: 10
So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.


P.S. Ill put your few years of hobby mining up against my years of experience in this industry if you want to brag about how long you have been doing it.


I said it before and I am saying it again, there is no comparison between a ASIC and GPUs availability. MANY Asian countries have ASICS BANNED UNOFFICIALLY, they seize them in customs. Hoarding of ASIC can lead you to jail even if there is no official law on paper. Any central govt. can put a stop to ASICs and the public wouldn't care. It won't take them much to ban ASICs, it is really easy for them. But the same can't be done with GPUs as they were not made for crypto mining and are required by many different industries of which cryptocurrency mining is a very very tiny fraction. A person living in a small town of a third world country can easily buy a GPU, contribute to the network and get some reward for it which is not possible with ASICs due their retail availability and govt restriction. So no, not anybody can buy and run ASICs. That is an illusion. GPU are the real flag bearers of democratic mining.

Also ASICs would get more respect if there was more competition in the industry instead of Bitmain's monopoly and shady practices which are against proper functioning of capitalism.

gameboy366 >  fanatic26  is like a trump troll who lies and make shit up so he can act like his idea of capitalism is the best one an even says it look at what he runs .. sigh ....He doesn't want GPU around any more and wants to shut out the little guy but will act like he doesn't but doesn't care, i can list all his BS an why he thinks CROPS should rule but won't but will in a few words "look up trump ..." He bought Bone Spur's trump into it not me .

I love this assumption:  "You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought." I wish there was a Mueller for ASIC to prove just how bad ASIC is ...

why can't GPU's exist with ASIC there is NO reason why not other then the greedily bastards have to much an now they want it all.
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 8
So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.


P.S. Ill put your few years of hobby mining up against my years of experience in this industry if you want to brag about how long you have been doing it.


I said it before and I am saying it again, there is no comparison between a ASIC and GPUs availability. MANY Asian countries have ASICS BANNED UNOFFICIALLY, they seize them in customs. Hoarding of ASIC can lead you to jail even if there is no official law on paper. Any central govt. can put a stop to ASICs and the public wouldn't care. It won't take them much to ban ASICs, it is really easy for them. But the same can't be done with GPUs as they were not made for crypto mining and are required by many different industries of which cryptocurrency mining is a very very tiny fraction. A person living in a small town of a third world country can easily buy a GPU, contribute to the network and get some reward for it which is not possible with ASICs due their retail availability and govt restriction. So no, not anybody can buy and run ASICs. That is an illusion. GPU are the real flag bearers of democratic mining.

Also ASICs would get more respect if there was more competition in the industry instead of Bitmain's monopoly and shady practices which are against proper functioning of capitalism.
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item.

so fanatic26 hated GPUs because they are not "set and forget"...imagine the trouble of running them by the 1000s? haha ...and also imagine him managing 1000s of GPUs....and he is thinking "those damn kids making the difficulty higher, i hope their gaming PCs and trash DIY rig explodes!" haha Grin

and also when fanatic26 is purchasing GPUs....i wonder how many times suppliers "limits" his purchase??...pain in the ass indeed..
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually.

Massive farms exist... so what. You're looking at it the wrong way.

I can buy miner-grade GPUs from dozens of outlets in my own country. Even from a real shop in town if I can be bothered.

Something like 25% of Steam's userbase have a mining capable machine. There are 24 million copies of 'PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds' sold. Each of those copies belongs to one person with a mining capable machine.

How many people in the world own ASICS? How many shops in the world sell them? GPU mining gear is available through the same channels as enthusiast PC gear. It's a different world.

And since everyone knows about GPU mining now, you can bet that many gamers are evolving into cryptominers.

The potential for decentralised mining is so much greater with GPUs than ASICS.



So TRUE...

Thanks for sharing, Apocalypse.
two and three year warranties are why I like gpus.

Sane running of gpus they don’t break.

But asics are here and won’t be stopped by every developer

zotac extended warranty.....5 years!
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually.

Massive farms exist... so what. You're looking at it the wrong way.

I can buy miner-grade GPUs from dozens of outlets in my own country. Even from a real shop in town if I can be bothered.

Something like 25% of Steam's userbase have a mining capable machine. There are 24 million copies of 'PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds' sold. Each of those copies belongs to one person with a mining capable machine.

How many people in the world own ASICS? How many shops in the world sell them? GPU mining gear is available through the same channels as enthusiast PC gear. It's a different world.

And since everyone knows about GPU mining now, you can bet that many gamers are evolving into cryptominers.

The potential for decentralised mining is so much greater with GPUs than ASICS.


So TRUE...

Thanks for sharing, Apocalypse.
two and three year warranties are why I like gpus.

Sane running of gpus they don’t break.

But asics are here and won’t be stopped by every developer
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually.

Massive farms exist... so what. You're looking at it the wrong way.

I can buy miner-grade GPUs from dozens of outlets in my own country. Even from a real shop in town if I can be bothered.

Something like 25% of Steam's userbase have a mining capable machine. There are 24 million copies of 'PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds' sold. Each of those copies belongs to one person with a mining capable machine.

How many people in the world own ASICS? How many shops in the world sell them? GPU mining gear is available through the same channels as enthusiast PC gear. It's a different world.

And since everyone knows about GPU mining now, you can bet that many gamers are evolving into cryptominers.

The potential for decentralised mining is so much greater with GPUs than ASICS.


So TRUE...

Thanks for sharing, Apocalypse.
jr. member
Activity: 44
Merit: 2
Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually.

Massive farms exist... so what. You're looking at it the wrong way.

I can buy miner-grade GPUs from dozens of outlets in my own country. Even from a real shop in town if I can be bothered.

Something like 25% of Steam's userbase have a mining capable machine. There are 24 million copies of 'PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds' sold. Each of those copies belongs to one person with a mining capable machine.

How many people in the world own ASICS? How many shops in the world sell them? GPU mining gear is available through the same channels as enthusiast PC gear. It's a different world.

And since everyone knows about GPU mining now, you can bet that many gamers are evolving into cryptominers.

The potential for decentralised mining is so much greater with GPUs than ASICS.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
Hi CryptoMined,

Daira, is looking into it tomorrow.  It's currently 1:50am for her now.

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
So because  massive GPU farms exist, we should encourge ASICS which will make the matter worse?

Excellent question...  I just recently shared a post from someone else in another forum on the subject.  Lets see how they respond.

The reason I ignored the other person, he said nothing to address the points I made in other posts.  Instead, he/she insisted on bloviating the same BS I've heard many others say.  When he says it, he comes across as demeaning and refers to those of us who support GPU mining as "stupid."
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
winning arguments by ignoring them.. .classic

Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually. Are any of those distributors limiting the selling of 10000 GPU to one entity, yeah probably not. Have people seen the pool ratios on suprnova for RVN, ZEN, ZEC? Several 1000 GPU farms going on there.

I'm not necessary for or against GPU or ASIC, but I'm not going to ignore GPU hoarding like fanatic26 and pretend GPU are any better. Whenever that argument gets brought it's conveniently ignored.. .

Let me share a post in another forum on another website by user, Lisfin:

GPUs are WAY more available to get then ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or 2 when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days.

Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available.

What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100.

ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc...

This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant coin, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because of the difficulty have ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.

Please people, you have your ASIC coins, we have our GPU coins. Clearly yours are not working because here you are…trying to get in over here because the profits are gone from your ASIC coins.


Even if there are people/groups with large pockets who can buy large quantities of GPU's, it does NOT mean THERE WILL BE ONE BIG GROUP WHO CAN CONTROL AS MUCH AS 50+ PERCENT OF THE HASHING POWER.

With ASIC's, not only do you have that threat from those same people/groups with big money but ALSO THE MANUFACTURER(s).  We don't have that threat {at least not yet} of NVIDIA and AMD doing what BITMAIN does with their hardware.
jr. member
Activity: 186
Merit: 4
So because  massive GPU farms exist, we should encourge ASICS which will make the matter worse?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 5
So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.

Look dude, I'm done with you.  

This is my last response to you.  You're being ignored after this post.

I'm not even going to waste my valuable time responding to you.  I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours.  Why?  Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it.

Good riddance...  Not wasting my time with you anymore.

winning arguments by ignoring them.. .classic

Seeing pictures of those 10000+ GPU nightmares doesn't instill visions of decentralization, quite the opposite actually. Are any of those distributors limiting the selling of 10000 GPU to one entity, yeah probably not. Have people seen the pool ratios on suprnova for RVN, ZEN, ZEC? Several 1000 GPU farms going on there.

I'm not necessary for or against GPU or ASIC, but I'm not going to ignore GPU hoarding like fanatic26 and pretend GPU are any better. Whenever that argument gets brought it's conveniently ignored.. .
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
So again, heres the thing. ASICs do not equal centralization, anyone can buy them, run them, and point them where they want. All you people talk about decentralization as it is some buzzword to trump all others when I dont think you quite have the grasp of what it is. Just because Bitmain is the first to release a miner, does not make it the only manufacturer capable of producing them. You realize Innosilicon, Halong, BW, Obelisk and Baikal (im probably forgetting one or two) all make altcoin ASICs as well right? In the bitcoin space there is even more competition. Just because bitmain is the largest doesnt make them the only one.

Heres another example of your centralization fallacy...I run a large datacenter. I manage over 10,000 GPUs here (and 11k ASICs). As a bulk buyer I get priority over other customers when I order GPUs, and I can run as many as I want here. The only difference is the GPU systems are a pain in the ass and the ASICs are more of a 'set it and forget it' item. Large scale mining on GPUs is already happening...do you really think the shortage of cards was from you hobby miners running 6 or 12 cards? No it was people like me buying them by the thousand until the market ran out of cards to sell. The 12 cards you run versus my 10,000 doesnt help with decentralization at all by your definition of it. You use the word ignorance, which is a bit funny because you are a shining example of it. You read all this crap on the forums about ASIC BAD, then regurgitate it like it was your own independent thought.

Look dude, I'm done with you.  

This is my last response to you.  You're being ignored after this post.

I'm not even going to waste my valuable time responding to you.  I'll let you decide when and/or if you will humble yourself in order to deflate that puffed up head of yours.  Why?  Because it's so puffed up you can't take it out of your arss to see the damn RED PILL to even swallow it.

Good riddance...  Not wasting my time with you anymore.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
Hi CryptoMined,

I have posted a question to Shawn on ZCash Forum.  Let's see what response we get...

Pages:
Jump to: