[Discussion] Bitcointalk Community Awards 🏆 - page 25.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: shahzadafzal on October 19, 2022, 02:39:13 AM

Yes rules can placed for example not to count votes of certain users based on some xyz criteria but will this not introduce some sort of discrimination too?

No. See Cambridge Dictionary:

Quote

discrimination

treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:

We don't know any of these criteria. All we know, is a user's contributions to the forum.
I'm not allowed to vote in more than 99% of the countries on the planet. That's not discrimination, it's because I don't qualify.

Stalker22

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1359

Quote from: joker_josue on October 19, 2022, 05:11:37 AM

Quote from: shahzadafzal on October 19, 2022, 02:39:13 AM

Wow it's almost one year, time flies.

Yes, a very important point sending merit does affect voting but I guess this will be part of it and we have to accept it. Yes rules can placed for example not to count votes of certain users based on some xyz criteria but will this not introduce some sort of discrimination too?

I don't think it's discrimination, as long as the rules are clear and they're presented before the voting starts.
After voting begins, no changes should be made to the rules unless it is something serious that you have to do.

I also do not think that this will lead to discrimination. Since this is a vote for the members who contribute the most to the community, it makes sense that only active members have the right to vote.

Last year there was a rule:

Quote

You must have 50 merit or be a full member or higher to vote

I think it would be good to expand this rule to take into account only merits earned during the current year. It does not have to be a limit of 50 merits, but maybe it could be reduced to 20 or only 10.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 5204

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: shahzadafzal on October 19, 2022, 02:39:13 AM

Wow it's almost one year, time flies.

Yes, a very important point sending merit does affect voting but I guess this will be part of it and we have to accept it. Yes rules can placed for example not to count votes of certain users based on some xyz criteria but will this not introduce some sort of discrimination too?

I don't think it's discrimination, as long as the rules are clear and they're presented before the voting starts.
After voting begins, no changes should be made to the rules unless it is something serious that you have to do.

shahzadafzal

copper member

Activity: 1526

Merit: 2890

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

So, in a month this topic will become relevant again.

➥ I'll probably have to spam Cyrus to get him to ship the collectibles faster.
➥ I expect to find sponsors for at least 0.2 Btc, the ideal option is 1 sponsor.
➥ I again count on the help of my Romanian governess.
➥ We need to discuss how sending merit affects voting.

Peace for everyone!

Wow it's almost one year, time flies.

Yes, a very important point sending merit does affect voting but I guess this will be part of it and we have to accept it. Yes rules can placed for example not to count votes of certain users based on some xyz criteria but will this not introduce some sort of discrimination too?

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 5204

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 18, 2022, 10:12:26 AM

I agree with this, but doing voting without any rules is also not good.
Newly registered accounts and recently activated accounts should not be allowed to vote, if we want to have nearly as fair voting results.

It can be an interesting idea, but at the same time it can become an unfair idea for some legitimate users.
Furthermore, a user may not be very active on the forum in posting, but be very active in observing. Soon this user could be someone good to vote for.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

So, in a month this topic will become relevant again.

I can't believe almost a year passed since last Bitcointalk Community Awards, but I am looking forward for new one and thanks for doing this icopress.
Better to add rules that sending merits is not allowed, or maybe theymos could maybe disable merit option for this topic all together, if that is possible.
I think I saw few topics that had merit button removed (that would be best option here) but maybe I only imagined this things

Quote from: FatFork on October 18, 2022, 05:46:29 AM

I think the competition would lose its charm if the voting were to become anonymous or overly moderated.

I agree with this, but doing voting without any rules is also not good.
Newly registered accounts and recently activated accounts should not be allowed to vote, if we want to have nearly as fair voting results.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 5204

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: FatFork on October 18, 2022, 05:46:29 AM

For example, Legendary members can give 5 points in each category, Hero members 4 points, Sr. Members 3 points etc. Members can decide whether they want to give all the points to one candidate or distribute them to several candidates. In my opinion, voting this way would be more fair because it would give priority to senior members who are more active on the forum, and at the same time it would reduce the significance of votes from alt accounts and inactive members. I know this wouldn't be perfect either, but maybe something along those lines.

I find this idea very interesting.
Since members with a lower level have fewer votes, it may be possible to demotivate attribution of merits by votes. Of course, it will never prevent the distribution of merits from happening for convenience. But at least it will minimize the situation or demotivate them.

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2800

Merit: 2736

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: examplens on October 18, 2022, 05:45:13 AM

but again there is no guarantee that the merit for the vote will not be compensated through another post.

No system can be perfect. Abusers will eventually find the hole. I think OP needs to skim all proposals about meriting and create a poll to find which have support from majority.

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: n0nce on October 17, 2022, 06:34:15 PM

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

So, in a month this topic will become relevant again.

Cool! Looking forward to it.

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

➥ We need to discuss how sending merit affects voting.

I'd make it simple and add a very clear rule that meriting in the whole topic is prohibited. Any merit sent from a nominee, cancels one of their votes. Disqualifying would be too harsh, as you could misclick and send a merit once, by accident.

I agree with you. Or perhaps each merit sent in this thread (except in the OP or after the contest ends) reduces your voting power by 20%, so 5 merits sent completely neutralizes your entire voting power.

FatFork

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 2700

Crypto Swap Exchange

I think the competition would lose its charm if the voting were to become anonymous or overly moderated. The voting process should be open for everyone to see, and there should be no hidden back rooms where decisions are made by a few people. As for merit abuse, it should be publicly discouraged and point out in the OP those who abuse the system. Abuse will always be a problem in some form, but I think that's inevitable. The competition is supposed to be fun, and if people can't see the fun in it, then they shouldn't participate.

As for the voting process, I think a simple upvote system is not enough. It would be better if there were an additional "point" system so that people could give more weight to their votes.

For example, Legendary members can give 5 points in each category, Hero members 4 points, Sr. Members 3 points etc. Members can decide whether they want to give all the points to one candidate or distribute them to several candidates. In my opinion, voting this way would be more fair because it would give priority to senior members who are more active on the forum, and at the same time it would reduce the significance of votes from alt accounts and inactive members. I know this wouldn't be perfect either, but maybe something along those lines.

examplens

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 3585

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: joker_josue on October 17, 2022, 06:14:34 PM

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

➥ We need to discuss how sending merit affects voting.

This point must really be analyzed, and all the rules must be defined before voting begins.
And I have some ideas/suggestions, I'll keep an eye out when the debate starts.

maybe theymos could turn off the +merit link in a specific thread, thus would exclude the possibility of giving merit for voting posts. but again there is no guarantee that the merit for the vote will not be compensated through another post.
certainly, even if the voting were completely secret, it will not prevent possible abuse and secret deals. it will only be harder to expose them.

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2800

Merit: 2736

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: icopress on October 17, 2022, 05:35:41 PM

➥ We need to discuss how sending merit affects voting.

We had two seasons if I am not wrong. In both seasons merit was influencing the vote. Members may tried it intentionally or unintentionally which does not matter since it had an influence. Maybe theymos can write a small code (I don't know how small it will be lol) and disable merit from the voting thread. But fast we need to understand how important it is for him as an admin of the community.

There is this user who created the OP patch, may help writing a code. Someone can mention him if they know which is the user I am talking about.

Edit:
It's PowerGlove.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: LoyceV on October 18, 2022, 04:19:14 AM

The drawback will be that people have to trust me on this. My PM publisher is meant to add transparency, not reduce it.

I have no problem trusting you, and neither do 265 users. The problem is that you have to take personal responsibility. And as said, it's not fun that way.

Quote from: Rikafip on October 18, 2022, 04:34:11 AM

I don't think that it can be both anonymous and abuse free unless theymos somehow gets involved in it (which I doubt he would want) and as others said it would be less fun that way.

Provably anonymous with theymos intervened isn't going to work. Such voting system would require cryptography to enter the chat.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Quote from: joker_josue on October 18, 2022, 01:55:16 AM

I mean, there is a way, which is for the votes to be anonymous. But how would we do that here on the forum?

I don't think that it can be both anonymous and abuse free unless theymos somehow gets involved in it (which I doubt he would want) and as others said it would be less fun that way.

I personally won't vote for those who merit their voters no matter how deserving of the award they are and if I vote before they start doing it I will simply change my vote.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 18, 2022, 03:48:37 AM

How about this: Your bot counts the votes, but never reveals the voters' username. That way, the briber will be discouraged, because he can't know if the voters lie to him or not.

The drawback will be that people have to trust me on this. My PM publisher is meant to add transparency, not reduce it.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: LoyceV on October 18, 2022, 01:38:39 AM

My PM publisher is available if icopress wants PM-votes.

Same loophole. "I'll merit you if you send the vote over LoyceV's bot". We can't avoid bribing, unless we somehow discourage briber. How about this: Your bot counts the votes, but never reveals the voters' username. That way, the briber will be discouraged, because he can't know if the voters lie to him or not. A malicious voter who wants to gain merits would ask from every briber, regardless if he voted for him or not.

On the other hand, it isn't fun to not know who votes what. And this annual event isn't supposed to be election-like. It's for fun. My suggestion is to just request to not use merits in the voting thread.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 5204

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: LoyceV on October 18, 2022, 02:12:49 AM

Even if it's possible, I think it's less fun that way.

That's true.

I think the only way to mitigate this a bit is by creating the rule that you cannot give merit to users who voted for us (in the respective post, of course).
Whoever gives merit in the post where it was voted on, that vote does not count.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: joker_josue on October 18, 2022, 01:55:16 AM

I mean, there is a way, which is for the votes to be anonymous. But how would we do that here on the forum?

Even if it's possible, I think it's less fun that way.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 5204

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: LoyceV on October 18, 2022, 01:38:39 AM

Quote from: n0nce on October 17, 2022, 06:34:15 PM

I'd make it simple and add a very clear rule that meriting in the whole topic is prohibited. Any merit sent from a nominee, cancels one of their votes. Disqualifying would be too harsh, as you could misclick and send a merit once, by accident.

There's a loophole: "I promise to Merit anyone who voted for me after I win". Or, even if someone doesn't make that promise, some users may expect it anyway and it may still influence their votes.

Well, there is no way around it. Anyone who wants to be a cheater will be.
I mean, there is a way, which is for the votes to be anonymous. But how would we do that here on the forum?

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: n0nce on October 17, 2022, 06:34:15 PM

I'd make it simple and add a very clear rule that meriting in the whole topic is prohibited. Any merit sent from a nominee, cancels one of their votes. Disqualifying would be too harsh, as you could misclick and send a merit once, by accident.

There's a loophole: "I promise to Merit anyone who voted for me after I win". Or, even if someone doesn't make that promise, some users may expect it anyway and it may still influence their votes.

My PM publisher is available if icopress wants PM-votes.

Topic: [Discussion] Bitcointalk Community Awards 🏆 - page 25. (Read 20375 times)