Topic: DNotes 2.0 - Staking, CRISP Interest, DNotes Pay - page 324. (Read 148866 times)

Thanks MiningHabit, for your well explained thoughts on this. I agree with all of your points with respect to the idea of value and I really like how you refer to 'story' as part of our society's technique for adding and understanding value. I even like your perspective on the mathematics of the bits that make gold, because I see the world in a very similar way.

But I do see value as distinct from intrinsic value. I think the best way for me to explain this is by referring to a floor-price. Because gold is used in manufacture, some people will always pay something for it so long as the goods they make are still selling. It is pretty and doesn't tarnish, so while people want to look pretty and don't want to polish, gold will also sell at least a floor value of what people are happy to pay for jewellery. I would call that the intrinsic value of gold. Partly because of this intrinsic value, and partly because the difficulty of mining it is well established, capping its availability, gold also has speculative value on top of its floor price.

During war time, or a significant financial crisis, the value of gold goes up, because more people are buying than selling, and the difference in demand is not being met by what is coming out of the ground. Then, some investors understand the cause of the spike, feel confident that they can get out again before their predicted peak, so buy up big in speculation. This speculative value can disappear quickly and is dependant on social beliefs. But once it does, the gold will still exist, and it will still be worth something to the manufacturer and jewellers.

Sidenote: Cubic zirconias look, to most people, identical to diamonds. They lack the industrial functionality that diamonds have, but as jewellery function just as well as diamonds. I believe that the difference between the value of a diamond and the value of a cubic zirconia of equivalent shape, is exactly the speculative value of the diamond, not its intrinsic value.

But with cryptocurrencies, there is no intrinsic value. If you took away the public faith, interest, and willingness to purchase any cryptocurrency coin, it would be worth absolutely nothing. It doesn't even have collector or ornamental value.

  Grandchild, "Grandpa, what's that plastic stick in the crystal cabinet for?"
  Grandpa, "Well grandchild, that stick contains 1,000 bitcoin. It was worth three million dollars back in 2017. It's just memorabilia now, because I didn't sell in time."
  Grandchild, "What's bitcoin? Is it something like DNotes?"
  Grandpa, "Yeah, but it didn't include shares in a company or anything of real value, so when it popped, I had nothing."

Because of this total reliance on perceived value, cryptocurrencies have a floor price of zero dollars. You can't manufacture or make jewellery out of them when nobody wants to buy them. Exactly like the point you made with fiat currencies, which also rely on both perceived value and an opaque system.

But if nobody wanted to buy my DNotes, they would still be worth their share of the 25% of DNotes Global Inc, or what ever that percentage may be as it gets diluted while forming a more valuable company in the future. So DNotes appears to have a floor price, albeit marginal at the moment, which I equate to intrinsic value. But even this is dependant on the functional value of DNotes Global Inc and what it can be used to produce.

I've generally found that the words "never before in the history of civilization has this happened..." are almost always followed by a description of something that's happened at least once in history - in one form or another.

New Ransomware Attacks Strike Europe, US

https://dcebrief.com/new-ransomware-attacks-strike-europe-us/

Appreciate it virasog, DNotes is the trusted decentralized digital currency. The company, DNotes Global Inc, is separate and will compete in the real modern financial world for the betterment of DNotes. Imagine if one of the large companies currently operating the in bitcoin space existed not only to make a profit, but also worked towards growing bitcoin, as if bitcoin is successful so will the company.

Thanks virasog, that was very well said. From day one, DNotes began building a trusted cryptocurrency that would be available for everyone, regardless of wealth, status, or knowledge of technology. By providing a bridge to the current business and financial world, people from around the world have the opportunity to finally be included in the global economy. It would be difficult for them to start/operate a business of any size if they are using a cryptocurrency that is perceived to be anti-establishment. 

The minute that we begin to attack a person, a company or any controlling interest to a coin or token, we lose that one forever.  It is too much power to place in a single system.  Because of the nature of crypto, to put a controlling force over that will result in a corruption from within, no matter how trusted the entity.
DNotes is no doubt a real trusted company.

I'm not super well practiced at thinking along these lines. My "economic theory" muscles need a little exercising. So excuse me if this seems obtuse, but why can't the intrinsic value be thought of as the social trust of the community?

The article's author refers to gold being "shiny" as intrinsic value. What does that mean? Shiny is a physical characteristic of a thing, which people find psychologically pleasing. Building a trust based, decentralized means of exchange is also psychologically pleasing. And at it's core, it's all math. Only we are talking about the positive psychological effects emanating from math-backed bytes, as opposed to the positive psychological effects emanating from math-based bits (i.e. physics, chemistry).

And then when comparing our genetically driven desire to be social, to build psychological trust between groups, to tell ourselves stories...I'd argue that this is far better with bitcoin than with fiat currency. The economies of the United States, the European Union, is so complex, so opaque, so unaccessible. Why do we trust these government's promises, which underlie the value of their monies? Of course there are reasons, but on balance, I'd argue they are more nebulous than trusting bitcoin. Because their is a verifiable purely mathematical reason underlying the entire superstructure. There is no opacity. Well, given the example of Chinese miners maybe controlling the network one day, there is some. But I'd say that is far less than opacity of Goldman Sachs puppetmasters running the world.

Basically, why isn't long-term social trust considered an intrinsic value? In fact, if you look at this from the perspective of Yuval Harari in Sapies, this is the core of our entire species. We have the ability to bind ourselves by the stories we tell, which get strengthen over time generation to generation.

I'll third that notion. During my time spent in Coldwater with you guys it really took me by surprise how much everyone was on the same page, even on issues we hadn't discussed prior to that. That cohesive team mentality and a common vision are huge advantages for DNotes.

"I have never been with a more committed and talented team. We are very passionate about what we are doing. It takes an amazing team with a clear vision to accomplish amazing results. "

Agreed, I have also never been with a more passionate and committed team. We have a clear vision of the future, each step forward is strategically planned and executed, and value is being added to DNotes every single day by very talented and dedicated people.

Mainstream Article on Intrinsic Value

Here's one for you TeeGee:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2017/06/26/what-is-bitcoins-elusive-intrinsic-value/
Jason has written a well researched article for Forbes, on where intrinsic value might lie in Bitcoin. It looks at a number of possibilities, and refers to many common opinions. Then comes to the conclusion that if you can call anything value, it comes from the work required to mine it. Weak at best, and Jason aknowledges that.

I posted the following comment on the article site, but it has not shown up. Maybe it's in moderation.
"Jason made some insightful comments and found a heap of great quotes about intrinsic value to put together a compelling argument. Where I feel this article suffered from a little confusion is in the manner it blurred commodity and currency.

History is littered with examples of collapsed currencies, which lost the faith of the country supporting them. And the paper that represented them has no more utility than bitcoin would if the community lost faith in it.

I only know of one alt-coin that has recognized and overcome this problem. DNotes is backed by DNotes Global Inc, a company which is creating real value through a variety of ventures. It has then given a 25% stake of the company's value to the DNote currency. So by owning DNotes, you own a fraction of the company as well.
http://dnotescoin.com/

My only other issue with this great article is where it states: "Never before in the history of civilization has this happened – where cornering the market on a commodity means gaining the power over its intrinsic value."

I would argue that for commodities, this has happened so often we invented the word "monopoly" and a game to explore that principle.

And if you were to relate that concept to currency, your mind will immediately turn to the government's ability to effect the value of its currency artificially, in the interests of its economy. This is something that cryptocurrencies don't suffer from, and something that is perceived as a value."

Thank you everyone for supporting this forum. Your best efforts in trying to make sense of the correlation between BTC and altcoin value adjustment is as good as mine; in this case, better than mine could have been. What I can tell you is that, for all practical purposes, DNotes is worth a little more each day. We are working very hard ever day and investing serious money in taking DNotes to the next level with DNotes 2.0 and beyond. I have no doubt that DNotes will be a significant leader in our industry in a year or two. How much would DNotes be worth one day? You got it. Your guess is as good as mine. But don't make the same mistake I made with Startis. I bought a chunk when it was trading below $10 million and sold it at a nice profit after it doubled and then watch it went to $500 + million and to $1 + billion. Startis is developing in C# - so is DNotes. Just some food for thought.

It has been another long day. I started at 5:30 am in Chicago, drove 3.5 hours (240 miles), put in a full day in Coldwater, MI where DNotes core group is at this time. It's now 1:00 am. I have never been with a more committed and talented team. We are very passionate about what we are doing. It takes an amazing team with a clear vision to accomplish amazing results.

Right on the money. This has been the general trend and the inverse can be said for price movements in the other direction. Investor psychology and herd mentality are powerful drivers when it comes to market valuation, nobody wants to miss out and nobody wants to be left holding the bag in a currency that has no future.

When the value of BTC/USD goes down a lot the value of alts/USD goes down a lot as well (because they are mostly indexed relative to BTC), which leads people to sell their alts into BTC and then USD, which brings the value of alts/BTC down and the value of alts/USD even more down, which leads more people to sell their alts and so on and so forth until remain the people who do not want to sell or are not aware of what's going on, and once BTC/USD stabilizes or goes back up people start buying BTC and alts again

I still don't understand the correlation between BTC and alts . Why the other coins drop in price when bitcoin drops ? I was inclined to think that people sell BTC to buy alts which would have a totally different effect from what is actually happening now. So is it the market totally controlled by bitcoin whales ? And the whales sell when the BTC price is up then buy when it reaches a bottom and so on , accumulating more and more from the unexperienced traders? over the last 24h i lost more than $10000  which is very annoying. Well "lost" is inaccurate because i'm still on the green side overall but this volatility  is not for the faint-hearted.

I'm very interested to see what kind of problems they'll run into when attempting to implement those features, and if they will even reach consensus at all. Judging by how large a portion of miners are dis-satisfied with the very notion of segwit and 2mb blocks, we could even theoretically end up seeing more than one version of Bitcoin being widely used by a large share of participants. Which is looking like a more viable option, because it still alleviates network congestion, isolates bad ideas by allowing for independent development, and forces development teams to provide an equal or better service than the competition or else risk losing business.

Maybe it's the volatility of oil reverberating in other markets, it fell over 15% since late May and it's already at rock bottom prices compared with historical figures.

That seems to be the case with pretty much all altcoins today.

If you look at overall BTC dominance of the total coin market cap, it was like 37-38% a week or two back. And right now, it's 43+%. So, it stands to reason that on a day when 145 of the top 150 coins are in the red (with most of them being down 10+%), and a day that is seeing an increase in BTC market cap dominance....that most alts would fall further today than bitcoin.

Doesn't seem too out of the ordinary, all in all. Though it does kinda suck to lose the kind of money today, overall (in BTC, LTC, ETC, ETH, XRP, and SYS, along with NOTE) that make grown men cry.

But I'm determined to be not be emotional about all this volatility. Either up, or down.

HODLLLLLL

I don't understand why every time bitcoin goes down, the price of dnotes goes down further more. In USD it has depreciated from $0.32 to $0.11 now. This is a total control of whales. There are more DNotes in whales pockets than in long-time holders pockets. A coin holder won't dump like that and with this volume...

4) The upcoming Bitcoin fork to incorporate SegWit and 2mb blocksize (whales will likely buy big time at the bottom).

5) The apparent relationship being formed between Nasdaq (which fell 1% in the first hour of trading today), and Bitcoin.

Thanks for dropping by mdnajir, and to answer your question here is a quote from Dyna

Hi, is there any regular date for v2.0 unleash ?


be cool man..........