Topic: Do we want to work with money regulators, or keep Bitcoin unregulated? - page 5. (Read 19192 times)

I hate the thought of Bitcoin getting co-opted into "the system".  Ideally, I don't want to see regulators involved.  Whether or not that's a realistic idea is another story, but I don't think the Bitcoin Community should consent to bending over and grabbing its ankles.

What has to happen now is a strong push for educating the public at large.  Mark Twain said "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."  Every boogeyman fear-scenario being promulgated about Bitcoin (It's used for DRUGS, it's used by PORNOGRAPHERS, it's used by BAD PEOPLE) can be said for governmental legal tender.  EVERY scenario.  Those early-early-early adopters who have substantial quantities of BTC would do well to use some of those coins to finance public-education ad campaigns.  National newspapers and magazines.  Radio and television.  Consider it an investment - because if the Powers That Be control the message, those stockpiles of Bitcoin could become worthless - or worse, illegal.

Flavius is one of those breeder boys you hear tap dancing in the next stall over while groaning with delight from the 12" kickstart vibrator shoved up his ass.

you guys are such faggots even posting in this thread

My experience is that better work with regulators, the attitude is much more important, if you are cooperative but technically uncapable of helping them, they will not bother. I think technically they can not regulate bitcoin and even if they did succeed, a fork will appear. Just showing that you are not hostile to them is enough

Tax on bartering is possible because of the work expended by both parties. Here is a realistic plumber - electrican example (this is somewhere in Europe):

Each party builds a house, and one does plumbing for the other, and one does electrician work for the other. Materials taken out of the calculation for now, see below.

Electrician:
Customer pays 10000 (or doesnt pay in case of barter)
Work value: = 8000
Value added tax: 25% = 2000
Salary= work value minus employer tax 18% = 8000/(1+0.18) = 6679
Employer tax (self employed or incorporated, doesn't matter) 18% of 6679 = 1440
Employee income tax 35%, 6679 * 0.35 = 2337 (could be more, it is a progressive tax)
Total taxes= 2000 + 1440 + 2337 = 5777

For the plumber, the calculation is exactly the same.
In case this is done in a white fashion, each party pays 5777 in taxes.

In case of barter, each party should pay the taxes, according to the tax man.
In fact, even if the plumber works on his own house, he should pay the taxes, unless he does it in his own spare time, according to the tax man. He can not take an extra week off to do the work, according to the tax man.

Clues the tax guy uses to counter tax evation, is
a) Parts bought, that is not pushed out to some paying customer
b) Missing income - workdays not accounted for
c) Company car outside a building site.
d) Anything.

Is this really anyones choice?

Regulate the exchanges but leave peer to peer transactions unregulated....

The point about putting taxation right into the bitcoin code - I can't imagine that anyone would support this.  But the question should people work to work with money regulators or keep bitcoin unregulated is a false dichotomy. 

The answer, to me, is that bitcoin probably will be regulated.  The reason you might want to work with the regulators is that if you're working with them, you have a shot at making the regulations more favorable to bitcoin users.  If we don't work with regulators, when the regulations do come they will likely favor the big banks, not bitcoin users. 

Our best bet is to try to keep regulation to the bitcoin exchanges if we can so that the bitcoin economy itself stays relatively unregulated and the only regulation is when we need to cash out to fiat.

People who seek to control other people's lives are sick to the core.

No one here needs my permission to operate a business or use the currency of their choice, so there is nothing anyone is ever going to be able to say to me that will convince me that anyone requires the permission of me plus 50% of the rest of the population to do these things.

I don't understand why anyone would think that the murdering of millions of innocent people  are "Lulz" - it is actually quite reprehensible and they should be ashamed of themselves.

These photos should really lift Crumbs's skirt while she licks the jackboots of the corporate state, http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/RM1.PHOTOS.ROOM1.HTM . http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM lists a couple of hundred million really good reasons to be an anarchist.

Go away and stop hassling me

It is impossible to have any kind of discussion with you.

Your behaviour is not wanted or welcomed.

Please stop trolling me.

No. As long as buyers and sellers have sufficient protection to be able to trade with assurance, I don't see the need, and we already have that via Escrow services.

It's fine, don't fuck with it.

Nothing beats an honest opinion on dah interwebz.
Sure, that's a sound bite in itself.
Had i but the time & you but the brain.
I think someone's trollin' you -- most of them use water.
You seem like a nice & reasonable fellow.  Busy Friday night?
If they learn how to wipe their ass, what will you do for work, champ?
Oh, you got me!  I actually clicked on that!  And then the talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Democide) 
And this talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rudolph_Rummel
Thanks for the lulz, have a kitty!
Don't lose hope, my brainy friend!  Just keep punching, Joe!

No, bitcoin will never bow down to FinCEN pigs

The people wanting regulation are dumb sheep in all honesty.

All they are doing is repeating some sound byte they have heard somewhere else with absolutely no thought behind it.

If regulation is such a good thing - please explain this to me

2008 Financial Crash

Millions of peoples pensions, savings accounts, houses and jobs - all gone.

Banks and the regulators are now bathing in piles of your money while you are eating out of dumpsters.

Increasing your taxes to give to the banks

This is what regulation gets you - the next person that says regulation deserves to have everything they own taken from them

In my opinion they are to weak to stand up on their own two feet and need the state to tell them how to wipe their own arses.

Little bit of trivia - Governments have killed more of their own people than have died in all world wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

Some people on this forum are just plain thick - one person was arguing that Plumbing is a commodity - what hope is there?

Anyone who says bitcoin SHOULD be regulated needs to GTFO

Man, there already is tax in existing regulation, since you have value added.

If you do not pay the tax in dollar on the value in bitcoin, they simply send you a bill. You can refuse giving them your BTC, but they will then do their best to not only track you but send you the debt collector on tax owed.

they might not get your BTC, but they can just quote you in your own fiat currency. And not give a fuck about not getting your BTC.