Do you take team's cohesion into account when betting? - page 4.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on February 19, 2021, 09:03:10 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on February 19, 2021, 05:57:33 PM

Quote from: robelneo on February 19, 2021, 06:26:52 AM

This not only applies to Football but to all sports that require a team effort, but it's hard to pull up a win if the team does not have strong players within them, each player has a role to play to make the play works, and come out with a win, I'm betting on basketball and I have not seen a champion team without a strong player, great team efforts can deliver a good play but they need good players to implement that play.

In soccer a player can't remain at his top level during 90 minutes, moreover the field is very large and one single player can't be everywhere, so I think the team is more important than individualities in soccer.

There is a reason on why it is called 'team sports' in the first place. Even if a single player is well-known for his skills, he alone, cannot win the game by itself. Team sports rely on everyone's effort and skill in order to achieve maximum efficiency and output.

In NBA, lots of individually skilled players are distributed across many teams. I remember the 2010-2014 Miami Heat, where the Big Three (LBJ, Wade, and Bosh) won, although they were the most dominant team in the league, they still need to rely on their team (especially Ray Allen) in order to win the playoffs!

I agree with you qwertyup23, but I think in basketball a good player can both play in attack and defense because the field is short and there are few players on the field. But in soccer good players can only stay at their position in the game most of the times, so even if a player is good, he will only be able to act on his part.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 18, 2021, 09:32:11 AM

Do you think it matters in real life, or is it just a nice fantasy of a TV show?

it does and it is very important to have it especially for a team. teamwork/cohesion brings out the best of each player in the team and we've seen actual results/champions of what can happen if there is team cohesion. only a moron would say that it doesn't matter. and yes I do take it into consideration when I do sports betting.

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Team cohesion is important, having players at highest possible individual limit is very important in addition to technical coaching but having them mix well together is the base as seen in Chelsea 2012 which was an average ' or even below average ' team early and winning Champions League in second half of the season with charismatic yet not-so-experienced Roberto Di Matteo.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 20, 2021, 05:26:03 AM

Another question I don't see answered yet is this: if one does want to evaluate a team's cohesion, where would one look for such information? Rumors? Watching recent matches? Or perhaps this data is already evaluated by someone somewhere?

For me the best way to look for these cohesion is whenever there's a match that involves a big stake on the line such as the playoffs or major tournament and usually there's going to be an underdog that will have a very good run or a favorite that will improve throughout the tournament. Relying on the team's cohesion isn't always the best thing to do since it could simply dissipate on the next match.

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must be a tough job to teach football without knowing it.

but it applies not just to football but also to the most popular sports like basketball. the game has to be played with the team not just by a single player or two when in fact the coach will give the best first five that will coordinate with each other to win the 1st quarter. a team that is not coordinating with each other will not sync and will likely not follow a game plan. if one is injured, he'd be replaced with another best player for the team.

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Quote from: plr on February 20, 2021, 06:24:01 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on February 18, 2021, 09:32:11 AM

I've just finished watching a TV show "Ted Lasso" which is about a guy coaching an EPL football club without even knowing football. The point is, he focuses not on the strong individual players, but on the team's morale and cohesion for the game.

This is a just a TV show it's scripted, if the team has no talent even if you give them the best encouraging words that they've heard in their life, they are not going to turn into a champion team, talent is mold for many years and it's not only words, all the team has high morale while playing but talented and team effort wins the game.

Yes, that is just a TV show, but who knows what is happening with the gamblers who bet on the sports and has a favourite team.
Morale and talent will be necessary that every player should have, and when they have all of that, and with integrity into their team, that can help the team beat the opponent.
Maybe some gamblers use that to help them analyze to find the team that has the potential to win in the next match.
But I am sure every gambler will have their way to analyze the team, and from where they can start, and how they can find the right team.

plr

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 18, 2021, 09:32:11 AM

I've just finished watching a TV show "Ted Lasso" which is about a guy coaching an EPL football club without even knowing football. The point is, he focuses not on the strong individual players, but on the team's morale and cohesion for the game.

This is a just a TV show it's scripted, if the team has no talent even if you give them the best encouraging words that they've heard in their life, they are not going to turn into a champion team, talent is mold for many years and it's not only words, all the team has high morale while playing but talented and team effort wins the game.

Janation

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 20, 2021, 05:26:03 AM

Janation, but can the performance be good if the team has some internal conflicts? And if cohesion corresponds to performance, does it mean it's enough to just look at recent performance and assume that it's a sign of the team's strong level of cohesion?
Another question I don't see answered yet is this: if one does want to evaluate a team's cohesion, where would one look for such information? Rumors? Watching recent matches? Or perhaps this data is already evaluated by someone somewhere?

That is why I am not looking at it as I said previously.

I based my bets on the past performances of the team. I would not know whether the performance of a team was affected by their internal conflict because, in the first place, it would be hard to know that. As I also said, it is hard to see or analyze a team's cohesion, all we can look at or analyze is the performance they have based on the records they have that game.

What we can hear is just rumors about something but I don't believe those, it is called rumor for a reason.

kryptqnick

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Janation, but can the performance be good if the team has some internal conflicts? And if cohesion corresponds to performance, does it mean it's enough to just look at recent performance and assume that it's a sign of the team's strong level of cohesion?
Another question I don't see answered yet is this: if one does want to evaluate a team's cohesion, where would one look for such information? Rumors? Watching recent matches? Or perhaps this data is already evaluated by someone somewhere?

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Quote from: Mauser on February 20, 2021, 03:31:09 AM

I do think that cohesion and moral matters a lot in sports. If team mates are in a good mood and work great together everything is possible. Sure a Superstar talent player might be able to turn around a game, but he is just one player. In my opinion it is better if the hole team functions well together. The only problem is that is hard to know the moral of a team. There is no statistical number for this. And since we can't follow the team 24/7 around we will need to use our own interpretations from the news on how good or bad the moral is. Also having the underdog win because of a good chemistry between teammates is what makes great hollywood movies.

The morale of the team can't be seen that easily in their games.

But it won't be that easy because this player/team is in a professional league. Despite their great performance that they will show in the previous or past games, we can't say that they are having problems with their teammate unless a rumour goes around. They are professional players and they could work around and show their talent despite not having any cohesion.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 18, 2021, 09:32:11 AM

I've just finished watching a TV show "Ted Lasso" which is about a guy coaching an EPL football club without even knowing football. The point is, he focuses not on the strong individual players, but on the team's morale and cohesion for the game. Here's a poster in case you might've seen it but aren't sure:

After all, football is a team sport, so the team working hard together is not less important than a few very strong players scoring some goals, right?
Those who bet on football matches and do thorough research often look into injured players and stuff like this, but I have a question: do you ever try to assess the integrity of the team itself in any way before placing a bet? Do you think it matters in real life, or is it just a nice fantasy of a TV show?

I do think that cohesion and moral matters a lot in sports. If team mates are in a good mood and work great together everything is possible. Sure a Superstar talent player might be able to turn around a game, but he is just one player. In my opinion it is better if the hole team functions well together. The only problem is that is hard to know the moral of a team. There is no statistical number for this. And since we can't follow the team 24/7 around we will need to use our own interpretations from the news on how good or bad the moral is. Also having the underdog win because of a good chemistry between teammates is what makes great hollywood movies.

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Quote from: Strongkored on February 19, 2021, 09:42:19 PM

Quote from: kryptqnick on February 19, 2021, 11:35:01 AM

Does it mean that when choosing what to bet on, we lack some essential information required to make this decision?

It can be said like that, but if that information is mentioned I think the bettor is not only focused on that but other things, for example the favorite team and also the trend that the club is experiencing, this is often my reference in choosing bets in football ( since this a sports I often to bet).

An experienced bettor will know what he needs, and if he thinks that he needs more information from which is mentioned, he will know where he can get it because he already has a source he used before. It will not be a problem for him because he can get something that the other bettor doesn't know, so he can bet after analyzing each team.

That bettor will not just select his favorite team before he can collect much information about the match and trying to analyze better to find which team has the potential to win.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 19, 2021, 11:35:01 AM

Does it mean that when choosing what to bet on, we lack some essential information required to make this decision?

It can be said like that, but if that information is mentioned I think the bettor is not only focused on that but other things, for example the favorite team and also the trend that the club is experiencing, this is often my reference in choosing bets in football ( since this a sports I often to bet).

qwertyup23

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I think it is definitely a factor to consider especially when you take in consideration any team sports, in general. However, it all boils down to your favorite/loyal team whenever you gamble. There was a study conducted that majority of the players who gamble on team sports bet on their favorite/loyal team despite knowing that the team that they are against are the stronger ones.

Quote from: Saint-loup on February 19, 2021, 05:57:33 PM

Quote from: robelneo on February 19, 2021, 06:26:52 AM

This not only applies to Football but to all sports that require a team effort, but it's hard to pull up a win if the team does not have strong players within them, each player has a role to play to make the play works, and come out with a win, I'm betting on basketball and I have not seen a champion team without a strong player, great team efforts can deliver a good play but they need good players to implement that play.

In soccer a player can't remain at his top level during 90 minutes, moreover the field is very large and one single player can't be everywhere, so I think the team is more important than individualities in soccer.

There is a reason on why it is called 'team sports' in the first place. Even if a single player is well-known for his skills, he alone, cannot win the game by itself. Team sports rely on everyone's effort and skill in order to achieve maximum efficiency and output.

In NBA, lots of individually skilled players are distributed across many teams. I remember the 2010-2014 Miami Heat, where the Big Three (LBJ, Wade, and Bosh) won, although they were the most dominant team in the league, they still need to rely on their team (especially Ray Allen) in order to win the playoffs!

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 19, 2021, 05:57:33 PM

Quote from: robelneo on February 19, 2021, 06:26:52 AM

This not only applies to Football but to all sports that require a team effort, but it's hard to pull up a win if the team does not have strong players within them, each player has a role to play to make the play works, and come out with a win, I'm betting on basketball and I have not seen a champion team without a strong player, great team efforts can deliver a good play but they need good players to implement that play.

In soccer a player can't remain at his top level during 90 minutes, moreover the field is very large and one single player can't be everywhere, so I think the team is more important than individualities in soccer.

Don't most sports place cohesion above, or at least, equal to skill level? Examples of those who don't are probably tennis, though there are doubles there and coordination there seems like it'd be quite a fit. Not saying that as long as you're one with the team even if your bad is that you're in, most teams would have both skilled and coordinated players. There's still a skill gap here and there, but others fill it up by playing with each other, hence why there's always an existence called the "Ace" for most teams.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 19, 2021, 11:35:01 AM

Does it mean that when choosing what to bet on, we lack some essential information required to make this decision?

Yes, sometimes when teams pick up a new player the cohesion could be instant or takes a while to kick in. On top of that it can be difficult to gauge those cohesion since they could go on beating all the best teams they face then next month the results are completely flipped the other way. Or if a certain team is on the bottom of the leaderboard it's hard to determine their cohesion until they start winning but not all wins are a good indicator.

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Quote from: robelneo on February 19, 2021, 06:26:52 AM

This not only applies to Football but to all sports that require a team effort, but it's hard to pull up a win if the team does not have strong players within them, each player has a role to play to make the play works, and come out with a win, I'm betting on basketball and I have not seen a champion team without a strong player, great team efforts can deliver a good play but they need good players to implement that play.

In soccer a player can't remain at his top level during 90 minutes, moreover the field is very large and one single player can't be everywhere, so I think the team is more important than individualities in soccer.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 19, 2021, 11:35:01 AM

Thanks for your replies! Just to summarize, it seems that most of you think that the team's cohesion is very important, but that it's very hard to assess it. Does it mean that when choosing what to bet on, we lack some essential information required to make this decision?
And I agree that cohesion is not just about football, but any team sport. It's just that football is closer to me and the TV show was about football, so I chose to develop my thoughts in this regard.

You may safely say that OP, it's the nature of gambling to not give you the ball anyway, so it's not like it's a big problem for sports bettors like us. It's just of course a big advantage if there ever comes a situation where information like this is plotted and made obvious for the bettors out there too see. At the end of the day, my days of playing percentage games taught me how big 1 percent can be.

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Thanks for your replies! Just to summarize, it seems that most of you think that the team's cohesion is very important, but that it's very hard to assess it. Does it mean that when choosing what to bet on, we lack some essential information required to make this decision?
And I agree that cohesion is not just about football, but any team sport. It's just that football is closer to me and the TV show was about football, so I chose to develop my thoughts in this regard.

hahay

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Of course considering teamwork or team cohesiveness is something important, because in this era, if a team or gambler who only relies on star players in reality still does not guarantee a team and gamblers win easily. At least this has often happened so it's no wonder, when an underdog team can win because they have a compact squad and of course playing without burden is a factor for them to maintain cohesiveness.

Topic: Do you take team's cohesion into account when betting? - page 4. (Read 751 times)