Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 344. (Read 734937 times)

this german mg was captured from the Kiev sent terrorists my friend along with brand new printed crisp 2500 usd, looks CIA sponsored.
http://rt.com/news/slavyansk-checkpoint-shooting-killed-640/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

2. No. There is no presence of any Russian soldiers there.


Five cents on this. Below is the latest example of FSB dirty work.

Russian sources report about shootings in Slavynsk on 04/19, while actual shooting occur on 04/20, then accusing Ukrainian nationalists.

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/1902807_747567265293722_4046491437927351809_n.jpg

Where hell on Earth have you seen peaceful protesters heavily equipped with automatic weapons, anti-tank weapons and russian military uniform ?  

What is the origin of those tolls ? .BY - Belarus ? / Putin the only ally in the world ? Except North Korea for sure  

Let's check Donbass (Eastern Ukraine) source:

http://novosti.dn.ua/details/223219/

The poll clearly states that only 30.3% of voters in Lugansk region, 27,5 % in Donetsk region, 16.1% in Kharkiv region and 3.5% in Kherson region want to join Russia.

Ethnic Russians in Ukraine, take a note. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia, you too.


There are two major points contained within the Charter of the UN: territorial integrity of sovereign states, and people's self-determination. You can't have both, it's either former or the latter. Problem with the West's approach to Yugoslavian crisis was that it was dishonest and lacked basic consistency. West was constantly jumping from one point to another and back, twisting or overriding international laws and even their own previously established principles. You can't destroy one multinational country under the pretext that every constitutive nation has rights to choose its own path, and in the same time claim that Bosnia, another multinational regional country, must stay united at all costs and use sanctions and military power to keep Bosnian Serbs and Croats -also two constitutive nations- within its borders. Or to tell that all former Yugoslavian republics should keep their borders and to encourage some to crush secessionists (like Croatia was allowed to destroy Serbian rebels, or Macedonia Albanian rebels) and then, only several years later, to embrace rebellion of Albanian ethnic minority in Serbian province of Kosovo and support their secession.

This, my friend, is called politics of double standards - notorious Western specialty! It's not possible to achieve fair, long lasting peace like that, by giving everything to one side while taking everything away from another. Reality is black and white only in dumb Hollywood movies.

Catching up on the news... Seems like the three days I was away, were quite turbulent.

I see the poll here:
http://modsite.by/allresult/#.U0mEKPl_vG9
has been extended to include "All Ukraine" and "Presidential Candidates", while Lugansk and Donetsk regions are still heavily for joining RF (65.8% and 62%). In the meantime, this number receded in Harkov region to 49.3%

http://www.investgazeta.net/img/st_img/Site_img/Zona%20Proedania.png

http://www.investgazeta.net/ekonomika/zona-proedanija-164683

Yes Donetsk and Lugansk regions are heavily subsidized.

Thanks for informing. I have added him to the ignore list.


Perhaps the 500,000 Croats living there are not strategically important.

I hate to say this, but demography is really important in the Balkans. The Serbs lost Kosovo due to their low birth rates. The Macedonians will soon lose half their country because of the same (half the children there are Muslims). The process is underway in Montenegro as well. I don't want to see the Croats getting defeated in a demographic Jihad. But what you just said (that you lost 20% of the population) makes me wonder about the future. 

Subsidized east, yeah right  

It seems that Pagan has a new account   Well, new item has been added to ignore list.

Normally I don't reply to 100% BS posts, but I will do it since this is your first post here.

1. It is not a minority. According to neutral polls, 60% to 80% want to join Russia.
2. No. There is no presence of any Russian soldiers there.
3. Subsidized? Can't stop laughing. Actually these two provinces produce the much needed coal and industrial output, which helps Kiev to subsidize the remaining provinces.

true but they don't see if the state doesn't change soon all Croats will be assimilated, Federation will become only Muslim

we have lost 20% of our population in 20 years, the numbers are getting worse..

when we say something about a third entity we get ridiculed and declared "separatists"

for example when Milan Bandić mentioned creation of a 3rd entity he lost his titule of an honorary citizen of Sarajevo

it's too sad but Croats from Bosnia&Herzegovina are on their own, they will most likely get no help from RH at least until the new elections..

I would say Donetsk and Lugansk - way to nowhere 

The whole situation is very unclear in those 2 regions. Some minority desires to join Russia there (not more than 30% according to different polls), another part of people is against Russia and against Kyiv (against everything I guess) Those who want to join Russia are backed by russian soldiers, who've actually invaded into neighbour state.

Those 2 regions are heavily subsidized, depressed regions, with out-of-date industry and terrible social sphere (crime level, fertility, life expectancy...). Ukraine spends on average ~ 5 billions USD per year to subsidize those 2 regions.

Taking all facts into account there are very big chances that Putin will not join those regions and has no real intentions to do this.

Speaking about the rest of Ukraine (including Kharkov), people are pretty united there and don't want to live in Russia. Just an example Kharkov football fans, yelling: "Putin XXXX" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G6oezjfSsU

In Europe as a whole, a delicate equilibrium exists between the Catholics and the Muslims. This is the case not only in Bosnia, but also in Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia.etc The prominent Catholic figures, including the Pope doesn't want to destroy the equilibrium by changing the status quo in Bosnia. This is not just a conspiracy theory.... I read it in an article in a reputed news source.

that will most probably never happen, as king Alexander of  1st Yugoslavia responded to a question about independency requests from Croats "Croats are pacifists" , we will most likely not do anything

the problem is the world sees the Bosniaks as the only victims in the war, no one knows about the crimes they did
the world will probably take their side and that will harm the reputation of Republic of Croatia while the Croats from BiH will never want to do something that will harm RH..
while people from RH don't really care about Croats from BiH

liberalists own all the mass media here, that is the main problem we're in this situation today

If you sit at your home watching stupid American propaganda films on your television, you will not get your entity. You need to organize protests, before Muslims (whose population is exploding) displaces you from your own territories. Tactically cooperating with the Srpskan authorities may not be a bad idea. Once you get your own entity, you can merge it with Croatia.

that is true, but under some rules

we were played but their politicians, removed from all rights..

today by a recent poll over 80% of Croats want their own entity..

"representitive" of Croats get 0% of votes from Croatian territories and all the rest from Muslim territories as they pick who will represent us
Komšić is not a real Croat, only a sell-out

we don't get to pick our own representitives, get overvoted by the muslims and get robbed financialy (as a recent investigation says richest town of Herzeg-Bosnia Široki Brijeg gets only 5% back from everything they pay in taxes, even roads they build they hire Muslims to work on them), that is not what we agreed too
we expected equality, we did not get it..

one more thing about it..
some say it's a crime
but when Serbians invaded Ravno (Croatian village in Bosnia&Herzegovina), Alija Izetbegović (President of Bosnia&Herzegovina) stated I quote "This is not our war"
if he claims this is not their war then he admits Ravno is not a part of Bosnia&Herzegovina, how come we're accused for pretensions on our own territory?
what was there left for those people to do when BiH did not want to defend them but to organize their own defenses (HVO and the republic)


by that logic all of our forces were paramilitary since you reckognize Yugoslavias claims on that territory
you cannot claim a territory simply because a constitution of one country says so


not true, for one example take Zvonko Bušić, if they wanted to break up Yugoslavia they wouldn't give him a life sentence
when Tito died so did Yugoslavia start dying

Serbian nationalists started rising, other nations did not like it, they did not want 1st Yugoslavia all over again, that is when Slovenia declared independence and other nations followed
Serbian attack was inspired by nationalist creation of Great Serbian not for maintaining Yugoslavia


no, they gave all socialist entities that existed in Yugoslavia the right to self-determination

those war Socialist Republic of Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia&Herzegovina.... etc.
they did not want to let countries form by historical rights or ethnic rights but only as those entities existed
therefore we have the smallest borders we had in times of peace in our entire history

while Serbians came with larger borders gaining whole Vojvodina
later on they lost Kosovo


I completely support it, altough Bosanska Posavina should not be there

You said that you're not aware of any Croatian paramilitary, I showed you two major formations, and -apparently- we agreed on that. Don't forget that there were more, for example Croatian far right-wing Party of Rights had their own militia. So, while Yugoslav People's Army had constitutional obligation to defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Yugoslavia, looking from the point of international law ZNG and HOS were illegaly formed paramilitary units and thus everything they were doing, at least until the Sarajevo agreement had been implemented, was clearly illegal. It is not my intention to discuss war crimes. I could, of course, but let's leave body count and hypocrisy of both Croatian courts and the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia for some other topic.


That was true only until the fall of the Berlin wall and the destruction of Soviet union and Warsaw Pact. After that, western powers decided it's perfect time to destroy Yugoslavia and to produce whole bunch of small, weak countries in the Balkans which are easily manipulated. Separatist movements have been actively encouraged by the West both politically and logisticaly, and the territorial integrity of sovereign Yugoslavia, member of the UN, has been simply thrown down the drain. What is important here is to remember that they gave the rights of self-determination to all member nations of Yugoslavia - except the Serbs.


As far as I know, Bosnian Serbs are not against the re-creation of Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia. How about you? Do you support their Republic of Srpska?

Who said that I don't support the Croat Republic? I want the quasi state of Bosnia to be split in to two. The Serbian majority areas should merge with Serbia and the Croat majority areas should merge with Croatia. The Muslims don't belong there and they can migrate to Turkey or Pakistan.

But that said, it was the Croats who decided in 1993 to form a federation with the Muslims.

this is incorrect...

tried, only tried


only accused

I can post videos if you want to where is clearly visible that Serbs organised themselves to flee the area when they found out that operation Storm has started
their soldiers in tanks ran over their own civilians in order to escape

in Bosnia

he was accused that he had pretensions on Bosnian territory which is true, we wanted to liberate Banja Luka from Serbian occupation but the Americans did not allow us to do so, they knew we would keep the territory

I personally find this all crap

He is also accused for pretension on the territory since he supported the Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia which Americans shut down in the Washington agreement

but I also find this crap

Croats settled in Bosnia&Herzegovina in the 7th century, we were 96% of the population there until the Turks came, even in the 2WW most of the muslims there issued themselves as Croats
almost all of them

and when Yugoslavia fell apart, we weren't able to claim the muslims for what they truly are..

somehow an unnecessary new nation has been created a new country that never existed before, 3 nations merged in 1 country

okay, I understand for Banja Luka
it has been our town in the past but now it has Serbian majority okay..

but you support Crimea, how come you don't support Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia?

Those are the territories where Croats are the majority, they would of been even larger if Serbs didn't chase out muslims from eastern bosnia which fled and then settled on our territories

I'm not a facist or anything, even tough we have historical claims on Bosnia&Herzegovina I only want the parst where we're the majority

Herzeg-Bosnia should have been Croatia, that is the main reason of accusing Franjo Tuđman for pretensions on Bosnia&Herzegovina..

altough Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia was not a country on it's own but only an entity (like the Serbian Republic in BiH today)

And even today I would die for Herzeg-Bosnia, it has been enough of oppression and centralisation from the Muslim society