Author

Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 218. (Read 1058949 times)

legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1005
I am using the latest sourceforge wallet version, and the tx does not show up on the blockchain.

My balance is right except for the transaction which took away 10 mil.

Any suggestions?

Any other solutions?  My tx is still in limbo

Should I revert back to the older client?
hero member
Activity: 935
Merit: 1015
..
I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off  a paragraph from the word count script! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end i didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is able some day.
..

I wasn't planning on upgrading the devtome code to not count identical paragraphs. Since this is getting controversial, I'll think about how to implement it, but I'm not sure how to do it and it's a low priority for me. In the meantime copying some sentences, and the occasional paragraph, across your own devtome pages is ok. There is no benefit to word spinning your own paragraphs.

I have updated the Syntax page of DevTome with the syntax for including a section of a different page into your current page, see:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:syntax#including_part_of_another_page

Hopefully this will help in situations were data has to be repeated in different documents.

ThinkI

That's interesting. Is there a way to copy the paragraph without the heading?
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 500
As I didn't saw this post from weisoq and I wasn't going to involve him if he wasn't writing about this here I have one more thing to say to the accusation.
On of my first guide was a  guide on Dr.Mundo. This character can fill different roles so the gameplay will be totally different but his native "skills" will remain the same. I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off  a paragraph from the word count script! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end i didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is able some day.
Weisoq also helped me a lot when I started here he gave me some guidelines to improve my quality so he may testify that I take many time to do the things right and I' m not here to abuse the project.
Yes although I think it's good to discuss these things, I probably got it wrong here. The thought was that if you were the writer highlighted, I would simply state the facts and clear the air. If it was another writer, plagiarism would have resurfaced and been noted. That plan backfired so I apologise for your public airing.

ThinkI: cheers I didn't know about that
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
..
Yes right now demand outstrips supply regardless of devtome because of volume in exchanges but it would be better if there were more writers providing quality content.. one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for. This will drive reading traffic and this ad revenue. The end goal is for devtome to not only sustain itself financially but give back by providing profits from ads and buy dvc at market with that profit.

We did have a Stories and Questions thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stories-and-questions-moderated-252709

A lot of people liked the idea, but I was the only person who ever bought a story Sad When we're using the new forum, we'll try it again.

Cool yea I think if people payed others to write then you would have dual marketing one side thr writers would want to market devtome instead of keeping it a secret like what happened to the poster above with reddit and the other side where we want to market devtome to drive ad revenue. The writers will be paid more if they find a buyer and the buyer is happy with content.
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 500
I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking Wink The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.
I don't think the issue is dumping. A fixed number of dvc per round go out, so whether person A or B gets them - and whether they hold/sell - is irrelevant. The issue is distribution, where there may be a big skew towards a lot of dvc going to a few. Transaction choices are then determined (by them and everybody else) on the basis that a great deal of short/medium term price and volatilty risk is in a few hands.

A different option would be to incorporate a more even distribution where no particular skill/work is favoured. That won't necessarily prevent dumps and spikes, but transaction choices differ because (collusion-aside) there is a lesser skew.

However, that doesn't address non-earners who might just buy one week and sell the next, miners, price chasing etc.

Your idea is basically for a bank. I'm not sure of the practical workings for that, if only for the fact that if I know the DVC pool is a perpetual buyer at price X, what happens when I'm happy to sell at X-1 (i.e. the pool would need potentially unlimited funds).
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
I have updated the Syntax page of DevTome with the syntax for including a section of a different page into your current page, see:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:syntax#including_part_of_another_page

Hopefully this will help in situations were data has to be repeated in different documents.

ThinkI
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
As I didn't saw this post from weisoq and I wasn't going to involve him if he wasn't writing about this here I have one more thing to say to the accusation.
On of my first guide was a  guide on Dr.Mundo. This character can fill different roles so the gameplay will be totally different but his native "skills" will remain the same. I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off  a paragraph from the word count script! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end i didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is able some day.
Weisoq also helped me a lot when I started here he gave me guideline to improve my quality so he may testify that I take many time to do the things right and I' m not here to abuse the project.

Good on ya Flam Smiley Glad you went to someone with it instead of just taking advantage of the situation.
hero member
Activity: 935
Merit: 1015
..
Yes right now demand outstrips supply regardless of devtome because of volume in exchanges but it would be better if there were more writers providing quality content.. one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for. This will drive reading traffic and this ad revenue. The end goal is for devtome to not only sustain itself financially but give back by providing profits from ads and buy dvc at market with that profit.

We did have a Stories and Questions thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stories-and-questions-moderated-252709

A lot of people liked the idea, but I was the only person who ever bought a story Sad When we're using the new forum, we'll try it again.
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
As I didn't saw this post from weisoq and I wasn't going to involve him if he wasn't writing about this here, now I have one more thing to say to the accusation.
One of my first guides was a  guide on Dr.Mundo. This character can fill different roles so the gameplay will be totally different but his native "skills" will remain the same. I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off a paragraph from the word count script ! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end I didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is available some day.
Weisoq also helped me a lot when I started here he gave me some guidelines to improve my quality so he may testify that I take many time to do the things right and I' m not here to abuse the project.
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for.

I was advertising on here and Reddit, to write up Bio's for developers/artists on Devtome, (also to give me fresh material) but then I got a message from a Reddit reader saying it wasn't right to charge people to write on Devtome because Devtome pay me...so I stopped, focussing on reviews instead. Its a moral grey area I think, I didn't mean to break any rules, and to be honest wasn't sure what they were.....but easier to stop than get harassed.

Is this what you mean, or do you mean something different?

I think the distinction is:
  • If you choose to write something about someone then they have no control over the content so should not be expected to pay for it.
  • If You are commissioned by someone to write something then they will expect control of the content and they should pay for this control.
  • If the content is published under the Open Source license then you can put it on DevTome.

The fact that DevTome also pays you is irrelevant.
However in the future I expect DevTome to pay less for the word count of content you were paid to produce.

So yes this is the intention: to help authors get paid in DevCoin for work and so get people using DevCoin.

Does anyone see this differently?

ThinkI
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 500
I'll repost what I said before, because I assumed that would clarify progress to the positive. Apparently not.

Quote
On those guides:
1) It's certainly a template, but that doesn't make it plagiarism.
2) This writer has been completely open about what he's doing and asking whether repetition or template is allowed for the purpose of explanations - finding the best way to do it is ongoing.
3) The plan was to have a top-page and series of sub pages with references to avoid duplication.
4) I haven't had time to revist this recently due to other issues and pure plagiarism in other articles, but will do.

Flam has been totally communicative through the process. We can debate the utility of 'works in progress' but I would urge any devtome-warriors with time to browse to pick through other writings - there are several on a different plane of issues to these.
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

I had a quick look at this and I think some of the duplication you are measuring is due to the type of content. i.e. There is a lot of identical data, shared between the characters, being described. This is a failure of the Game not the author. I do not play the game and so I could be wrong here.
Similarly the titles of sections will tend to be the same since the documents are about the same thing (I guess).

These issues may be more obvious because the other content is not easily accessible to a native English speaker. I have had a lot of experience reading English work by non-native English speakers and it can be quite painful to unravel. Typically the same bad sentence structure is repeated over and over because the author only knows a few ways of expressing themselves. Given the content I would expect this to be painfully obvious to someone who knows what they are looking at.

So yes there is evidence of templates but they are a product of the language skills of the author as much as anything else. Combine this with the subject matter which seems to have large amounts of identical data in it and I can understand why you would complain.

If this were a native English speaker then I would suggest they work more on the differences between characters in order to give each document some originality. Since it is not a native English speaker I would suggest they also pick up some story books for an age range they are comfortable reading and look at how the author changes the sentence structure to make the story flow in a more interesting way. In this way they can increase the number of ways they have of expressing themselves and reduce the template feel of the documents. I would also suggest they read their work aloud, as if they were talking to a friend about the subject, and changing it to improve the flow and pick up their enthusiasm for the subject matter.

So the question is, should we penalize people because they are not native English speakers or should we help them improve there English?
This fellow seems willing to improve.

ThinkI
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 100
one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for.

I was advertising on here and Reddit, to write up Bio's for developers/artists on Devtome, (also to give me fresh material) but then I got a message from a Reddit reader saying it wasn't right to charge people to write on Devtome because Devtome pay me...so I stopped, focussing on reviews instead. Its a moral grey area I think, I didn't mean to break any rules, and to be honest wasn't sure what they were.....but easier to stop than get harassed.

Is this what you mean, or do you mean something different?
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
Another thing about the copy paste accusation  for the skills Smiley

One of the "bad habits" I have is to post my article first then I read them once or twice as I don't like to do this from the preview and then I correct the spelling on my own. I do this with the goal to learn and improve. Only after this I put my article in a word processor for a clean paper. So please check all the old versions I posted correcting my spelling and grammar many times and tell me it's copy paste here too.
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

Oh well what is ocd ? The duplicated lines from summoner spells are still here. I let the admins doing their work but for the other things I'm fine with it.
You can think it's standardised at some point but it's not copy paste as you say. For the skill desrciption  copy/paste accusation  go on it's what that takes me the most of my time. No hero have the same value from their skills it will hard to copy paste anything here.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking Wink The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.

But developers get paid in shares not dvc, the shares result in dvc which is volatile based on the number of people submitting that round... so there is never any stability in terms of fiat amounts people recieve, but there is stability in terms of fiat if devcoin rises to account for the higher number of shares... that is something that we may see going forward if we increase the number of writers/developers with quality content/applications. If we focus on quality, we will see good results. I think once we get around to invoices/contracts etc it is prudent that static value is considered, maybe held as collateral through the mechanism you describe so that people aren't left hanging when there is a crash for example.... its fair to both parties... if price rises one side benefits more than others, same as crashing. Essentially like commodity producers hedging with contracts on the futures exchange.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

It does seem like templating, and im not sure this should be allowed, atleast pay the unique line count and not the difference?
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 100
So here is flam's data dump:

Tenthirtyone, the cool thing about any wiki is that you are encouraged to improve pages and add knowledge to articles you feel you can improve..all that time spent copy/pasting and criticising the work, could have been spent fixing it up and making Devtome better. (I am assuming this is your agenda as it was the original point of your post about the quality of certain articles)

It seems you both write about the same topic, could you work together and maybe this would also help Flam with his English writing at the same time? (also improving the overall quality of Devtome)

It is a collaborative work and I am pretty sure your word count is about the words you type on your account, not the articles you write them on. (can someone verify this is how it works or am I doing it wrong?)
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
But dumping isn't just related to pre-mining.

Mostly it has to do with just tellign an exchange "sell these" without telling it "at no less a price than ______" (fill in the lowest price you are willing to accept).

Basically if you sell to an existing buy order you consume buy side depth, but if you instead place a sell order on the sell side buyers have to buy from you instead of you selling to them, and it is the sell side not the buy side of the order books that gets consumed, so the price used by all the profitability sides market cap sites and so on is not driven down.

Dumping is thus smply dumping your coins onto the buyers instead of placing an offer on the sell side waiting for them to come to you.

Often there is a large gap aka "spread" between the highest buy offer and the lowest sell offer, so you often get a significant amount more for your coins by placing them on the sell side too, as you are above the "spread" instead of driving the bottom of the "sread" even further downward.

-MarkM-


There is a misconception here. There is no dump other than the one I described. I already said it that you call it a dump because you are holding shares. And you are thinking about the economy from your point of view and not globaly. The actual price of the market is the right price and it's the case at anytime. Anything else is hope and speculation. Someone who sell devcoin as he earns them is not a dumper. What  if I am able to pay my rent in devcoin directly ? Am I still dumping ? I don't think so. So some guys come then trade DVC to BTC then trade BTC to usd then pay for things. And they are absolutely right. I don't know you but if you are a pure speculator you have to admit that some guys are not and it's totally fine.
I saw this case not so long ago on this forum about 25M dvc sold at his lowest at the time something like 0.0003 usd. Almost everyone laughed at the guy and called him a noob dumper etc... The history proven that it wasn't a good move in a nutshell but The guys here still don't know anything about this guy. Maybe he had an issue in his life and he had to sell everything or maybe he is a super trader and he switched his DVC to dogecoin and/or moon coin and he is now the one laughing, reading this thread back. Again for any fact many causes foreseeable...
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
I love the idea but I'm not sure how to make it work. There was (or is?) a similar app for Bitcoin, that works in a way that is like this but different. Essentially what that app does is takes the amount of money you deposit and you will ALWAYS have that much, such that:

*You deposit $100 when BTC is $100 each - you have 1 BTC
*BTC goes down to $50 each - you have 2 BTC
*BTC goes up to $200 each - you have 0.5 BTC

When you make a withdrawal/payment, it is based on how much you had deposited. So your value relative to BTC never goes up or down; it is static.

Ok, I can see how that would work..If you bought at $100, then right now you would have around 0.12 BTC? ($100 worth of BTC, not BTC worth $100)

This could work in the same setting, but maybe more use for the investors than the users. (ie: by supporting the fund for $100 they will always have $100 worth of DVC to pull out?) Possibly with a bonus plan that increases the longer they leave the funds there?

I picture a really simple interface for the users...users deposit DVC or cash and get DVC or cash in return. From that point it gets complex lol

I will have my first Devtome payout this month so maybe I can start building the pool with (some) of that (yes I have rent to pay too!) but will have to have it at a pretty solid working stage before I can expect other investors..and it still an idea Wink

Yep, you got it down. The investor platform would be a bit different, but in terms of maintaining value in all the coins I brought it up since they both do that (just in different methods and for different purposes -- the app does it in the reverse, maintaining USD->Coin value, whereas we want to do Coin->USD value).
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