Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 341. (Read 1059181 times)

Welcome, glad to see we're growing.


Thanks, this is something I (we?) should know, sorry I was too lazy to read all the devcoin's history...
In fact, except Decision Chain, it doesn't change a bit:
 - mono-cephalic leadership is the best!
 - he might need some [other] burdens lifted (hence You - the Admins - are helping him)
 - as father of a few kids, I know that, although I'll always be their father, many other people will have a growing influence in their lives...
 - delegating Project/bounty officers might not chip a bit of his authority, in fact might enforce it.

Hope he is reading those lines, I'm sure he has better ideas/clearer objectives than me...

Basically, what Notabot said is true. Admins aren't really "admins," but we each have our own areas we have control over (which a few of you have found out through pm'ing me about things I *can* do but are under someone else's control so I don't). The only person that can make decisions on things like the bounties is Unthinkingbit, and he's also the only one with control over other DVC-related areas. Think of admins as being more like employees, in a sense, with the exception being that we "administrate" over our respective area. With that said, anyone and everyone is able to make suggestions and such, though I'd say that generally they should go straight to Unthinkingbit, as he's the only one with the power/authority to make changes.

The original purpose of devcoin was to aid developers, and thats where investment (demand for the coin) comes into play. But for demand the bounties have to be for software/hardware/etc that benefits not just the devcoin community, but has a common interest, particularly to those in the cryptocurrency community, who are the ones that would be potentially investing in devcoin. Should this happen the price will not go up unless potential investors are aware of that. Just changing the share structure won't affect the price unless the average crypto-investor knows this, and for that to happen it needs some professional PR. When I look at the investment going into bitcoin recently, it seems that a modest PR, public announcements, an article on coindesk.com, being in buzzfeeds, etc, would be greatly beneficial to this coin, if implemented alongside the discussed change.    

Unthinkingbit is the Founder here and this isn't something that can be decided by group opinion or Admin's opinion.  But why not create a poll with several options for different percentages, and for more constructive comments in the poll thread. Admins don't run the show here, we just keep it rolling and take care of stuff in the background according to Unthinkingbits instructions. Unthinkingbit has his reasons for making decisions and this conversation should be directed at him.

EDITED: for clarity

Hey man,

I think structured documentation on each bounty/bounty system would be a good starting point. Documentation which cannot be interpreted in different ways. Once we get an idea if this is all happening we can start. Good to have you here!

Hey everyone! I'm the accounting/documenting guy that our friend up there mentioned. A novice accountant, unfortunately, but a Business Management/Communications major in college at the moment. Marketing, documentation, article writing? All right up my alley, and I'm more than willing to lend my support to the cause. Tell me what you need, and it will be done. I can even oversee some projects if need be.

All the best.

Yea we need people organizing the different facets of the devcoin project which will help in the long term. I've got an accounting/documenting guy who's willing to come in and help I'll ask him to come in to write articles, organize it under devtome for now. We also need to come to a condenses regarding the changes needed with the project in order for this to happen. I'm not sure how this vote is supposed to work but we need to make it happen.

@sidhujag:
I've started the conversation asking if DVB is related with DevCoin's Bounty System, and it's not.

Then, as You also stated, it started to spark an interesting idea, linking a few goals we all (wiser and others not directly in this conversation) want in a form or other:
 - Bigger bounties for [other] projects
 - One or more funds/coops/banks... to give the coins more value except hoarding
 - More popularization/marketing for each of the projects, so attracting willing investors (in real life I've invested more than once in open source projects...)
 - Better documentation/advertising media (any media) or simply better written articles about those projects
 - Better managed projects, and profit-oriented (open source/GPL, but with revenue...)
 - I (this is only my opinion) would never race another engineer in an open source project, for an elusive bounty. Better help him for a mere 10% than wasting mine or his time in reinventing the wheel... Yes, I've competed with others on the free market, I won and lost, but as fellow Open-Source developer, as fellow "coiner", I can't do it! There are species that cannibalize, and there are others that don't...
 - At least, it might help the Admins focus on what is really important: leading, and lift the weight of management from their shoulders

I'm sure there are many other advantages, and our proposed structure it's not even a draft, but I'm more than willing to work toward this goal...

Im not sure I follow, are you talking about DVB or a crypto fund? or are you talking about our individual devcoin bounties? It would be interesting if we gave power to each bounty admin to be able to let money sit in another devcoin denominated fund earning interest until the project is complete and the completion of the bounty is at the description of the bounty admin, at which point he/she decides if the developer is worthy of receiving full payment. ie: bounty admin receives 15% of the bounty piggy bank, 35% for marketing the bounty(if needed),  and 50% goes to the dev if he completes it to satisfaction (maybe payment over time(rounds) to reduce market impact), also giving the incentive for the developer to create code that works over time. If for some reason the quality is not up to par, the admin can decide he/she doesn't deserve the full 85% of the bounty and cut it off and let the developer appeal for devcoin admins to be heard on why he/she thinks they deserve the full bounty. This could be as simple as cutting off payments to the dev when code stops working and dev doesn't fix it, or if code is not that good to start with tell developer he will only receive 40% of the bounty or something commensurate with the quality of finished product.

This will do 3 things:

1) Gives bounty admin sense of responsibility for acting according to the greater good of the Devcoin project and gets paid at the same time
2) Gives a democratic process to do the bounty, and lets developer appeal if they think they are underpaid
3) Gives the ability to stop the developer from getting full payment if quality of work is not as expected.

The tough part will be to find and assign willing admins who are capable to do the managing. As bounties banks grow so to will the interest in completing them. We market them via a proper website CMS system and draw traffic via creating accounts like devtome, tag rewards are used to do the ads so that people get paid for marketing the website based on signups.

Right!
We are on some track here...

From sidhujag: this person should act as an liaison officer, a project/bounty officer. With some independence to spend coins for various connected jobs (to ease the load if the project has one developer only) and with REAL interest in results (commercial interest, but not licensed, we should remain open...)

From wiser: The project/bounty officer could pay for popularization literature, for drawings or other creations (3Ds, movies, etc). Also, he/she could have the power/backing from the admins, to act quickly, so better fluidity of the decision process.

Also, by creating the fund, the project/bounty officer could decide a priori what to do with the money, if spend them or let them earn interest...

Well, what's the next step?

dunno. found via twitter, searching for #devcoin

No we need the admins to vote and speak... only one admin has voted and that was a yes... it would have an effect on price for sure! Which direction do you think? It's been steadily coming down ever since devtome was put in place. By reducing it to 45% we will reduce writers sure, but when price doubles (if it does) they would get the same value as they get now anyways. With the extra 45% we can allocate bounties like this fund webpage that people are talking about. Everyone believes in it and gets paid at the same time. As rounds pass by the bounty will get bigger until its done. We allocate bounties based on everyone's consensus among admins or something like that if admins are too busy. Not sure what more to do here if we can't get out to the admins, are they busy, away, do they even read the thread?

The thinking before was that bounties were very hard to manage and work never got done properly as incentive was to receive the bounty and then never to be heard again. So some management portion of the bounty needs to be added and someone from the community would have to work with each bounty to ensure it gets done to satisfaction. This person(s) will not only be paid but has to have notable interest in the project to not allow for bad behavior or work regarding a developer who's just doing the minimum to get paid. Either the bounty requirements needs to be more strict (admins work) or management of the work needs to be better, maybe a wiki or separate thread for each bounty so everyone can see status updates which should happen regularly. If we set it up "right" then the market will take care of the rest as each round the bounty will increase until someone finally agrees to do it "properly" and not cut corners.

Bad behavior could be expected from anything that allows for it so we need to simply create rules to not allow these things to happen and set incentives to create good work, similar to the rating system on devtome and the tag rewards for marketing.

Further more once this is done and is dependable we can trim down our shares list and actually remove any dev's from the list unless they are actively working on a bounty. If its something like a merge-mined pool operator we need to keep these people on to keep the network hashrate up so we can all agree to have these types of people, but any development or fixes need to be done via bounties once we have it set up properly. Right now dev's are being paid regardless of work being done and at the discretion of UnthinkingBit who simply "knows" when they are or aren't doing any work. I don't believe this is the best way forward, hence the vote.

So, I'm also proposing to use tag rewards for our ads to bring people in to write for devcoins. Using a tag we can reward coins based on the signup and not per round regardless of how in-effective the ad may be. I'm sure this will be more efficient and reduce the generation shares towards marketing so we can add elsewhere more important.

Its just an exchange?

oh, nice, what is this?
http://cryptobourse.com/

I'd be interested in helping with some of the writing

This is totally doable! Every one of us (those who write on devtome) could write those "plain English" pages, like popularized science. There is no need to force the engineers/analysts/etc to leave their comfort zone, we could help them.
If not on devtome, then everywhere could be hosted an usual CMS. I also could write some pages myself...

As about the fund, I suggested to be mono-cephalic, for speed of decision (I don't believe in committees) and transparent, so... you understand...

I'd like to promote such a project (i.e. work and push it through, not leading it, leading is a merit-based position...). I'd be glad to know which domains belong to devcoin community and where could this "DevCoin Projects Encyclopedia" be hosted...

In my country, domains are for life, and around 50USD. I'd buy one from my money (in max 30 days from now) and host it on one of my hosts.
It could easily be WP, or, if undesirable, other CMS of choice.

How will You find the first Fund Administrator, and who will endorse him/her?

Will be doing the same.

I like the idea of an investment fund.  It would have to be developed further so that everyone has clear expectations about it, but that's something I'd be inclined to invest in too.  One of my expectations would be that I would want nice slick website pages which explain in plain English every single project (a page for each one) with lots of clearly labeled pictures and plenty of discussion about how said project will improve my life.  All those pages would have to be easily found by visiting an easy to remember url.  The entire site should have an FAQ section, post who are the decision makers of the fund and how to reach them, indicate when things are up for a vote, and there should be a blog for project updates (categorized by projects so I could easily find all the updates on any particular project).  When you buy a share, that enters your email address (with your consent of course but it is strongly encouraged) onto the fund mailing list and shareholders are kept updated with everything relevant.  Part of the revenue could come from advertising on the site.

In the mean time, FWIW, I've been putting my Devcoins into VIRTUAL and P2PDVC, both on Cryptostocks.

Has anyone calculated the size of a round 29 share yet? Jw.

Thank You for fast and accurate answer.

Now that's what I was thinking about:

Devcoin bounties are (afaik, don't forget I'm new...) paid in two ways:
A - "In hand": transferred from a wallet, already mined, and "old" coins.
B - shares: mined (those are coins in the future, not yet mined)

I'm talking about those "old" coins (point A):
(and I'm talking for myself, please don't feel offended)
 - instead of hoarding them/sit on them/fatten my bottom/... I'd like to let the money work, so I could give them to a trust/fund/... backed by the Devcoin Admins
 - this fund should (under transparent mono-cephalic administration repaid from profit) invest/trade/"produce" some value with this fund.
(This is the most sensitive part, and I'm new in this community, but I've read and there are a few thrifty individuals here that certainly know more than me how to grow a bunch of coins...)
 - if quick bounties are needed - those are money "at hand" (refilled from future shares)
 - If large volume bounties are needed: more than could be mined during some project, this fund might also be welcome...
 - It's manager could also implement some coherent policy (sell to distribute coin for usage, buy to rise the price...) established at the Admin level or by shareholder's vote (already in place...)
 - Other benefits I'm not enough educated to see, derived from managing a large volume of money...

If this would help and would exist, I'd gladly give it my DVCs, instead of selling too low or throwing them into the basement...
Thanks again for the patience

did the voting about the 45% instead of 90% ditribution happen yet? whose decision is that really? what of an effect do we expect on the price value of DVC regarding this?