Topic: Economic Totalitarianism - page 4. (Read 345711 times)

lest this appear to be an invitation for the reader to pass judgement,
I'll say that is unintended.  If, however you do not know whether to
laugh or to cry, I suggest that laughter is always the best choice.

You should also know that if someone creates a cryptocurrency which
is a real fiat-killer, it will bring with it tremendous power and
great responsibility. The owner(s) of this bitcoin v02 will face
the same moral dilemmas outlined in my earlier post.

You, as new owner(s) will immediately come into conflict with what
I will later refer to as "The Creature" - and all its vested
interests. So, be careful with your dreams. 

"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce."
Karl Marx

"Again, the devil taketh him up to an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all
the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things
will I give thee, if thou will fall down and worship me." Matthew Ch4

This post provides the context needed to understand "The Creature" in 1945-1949.

As soon the war in Europe finished, the "Allies" quickly became enemies.
President Truman resisted calls from his Generals for pre-emptive nuclear strikes,
in effect World War III, to prevent the Soviet Union from invading Europe.
It was a relatively easy decision for Truman, the USA had material for one bomb,
and several dozen would be needed for the attack. The content of the the
US Nuclear Arsenal was a secret the Generals did not know. [1]

Around March 1945 Allen Dulles was Swiss Director of the OSS and was negotiating
the surrender of German forces in Northern Italy. He was also negotiating with
GeneralMajor Reinhard Gehlen, head of Reich Foreign Armies East, for control of a
military spy network within the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. [2]

The budget for the entire OSS in 1945 was of the order of $50 million. [3]

With the end of the war in Europe the OSS was disbanded in October 1945. The
code-breaking resources were assigned to the War Department, and would become
the NSA. The instruction to disband was broadly interpreted to allow the construction
of a peacetime US secret service, the " Strategic Services Unit" (SSU)with the State Dept.
Responsibility for the administration of Europe was divided between the USA and the UK,
and arrangements were made to share intelligence.

It wasn't only Allen Dulles and Reinhard Gehlen that had an interest in the survival
of the SSU, others, including the Mafia and the Vatican, had invested in the network.
One might suppose that it was entirely in Gehlen's interest to promote the threat
from the USSR, including news on the development of technologically advanced weaponry.

As a guess, the initial 1946 budget for the SSU was one tenth of its wartime equivalent,
say, $5 million.

The SSU's response was to prepare stay-behind units (Gladios) as a countermeasure to
any Soviet invasion. The muscle that these politically motivated units provided would
later be directed against the growing Communist Party's ambitions in Italy.

"In 1947, the Communist Party of Italy, much admired for leading the fight against
Mussolini, was expected to win major gains in Italy's first post-war election." [4]7:41

The role that the Mafia and the Vatican played in these events is summarised here:
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/03/the-alliance-between-the-cia-and-the-vatican/

"Initially, Mr Dulles and Secretary of Defense James V.Forrestal solicited funds from
wealthy friends" [4] 6.52 It wasn't enough, even when reimbursed through the black budget. 
The problem of financing the SSU and its network was tackled under the Helliwell Plan.
The name implies a formal agreement between the embryonic CIA and other parties
for a share in the profits from the heroin trade between Italy and the east coast of
the USA, to be remitted into the Vatican Bank. The most likely event contributing to
this Plan was the Mob Conference in Havana, at the Hotel Nacional, December 1946.

In 1947, and coincidentally with the discovery of the Japanese War Loot, and the
decision to keep the recovery of the wealth a US State Secret, the CIA emerged under the
directive of the US National Security Act. It soon had competition in the form of the
OPC (Office of Policy Coordination) - the two were merged in 1951.

In 1950 Allen Dulles was recruited to oversee the Agency's covert operations as Deputy
Director for Plans. Perhaps his earlier experience as a lawyer in Sullivan and Cromwell,
a firm specialising in international finance legal matters, was found useful.

It's hard to be sure what was really going on, though, see this:

"Typically, in the early 1950's, the Agency dropped millions of dollars worth of gold bars,
arms, two-way radios, and Agents into Poland to support what its top officials believed
was a powerful Polish underground movement against the Soviets. In fact, Soviet agents
had wiped out the movement years before, turned key people in it into double agents, and
played the CIA for suckers. As Wiener comments, not only had five years of planning,
various agents, and millions of dollars "gone down the drain," but the "unkindest cut might
have been [the Agency's] discovery that the Poles had sent a chunk of the CIA's money to
the Communist Party of Italy." [5] 0.30

[1] See "Command and Control" by Eric Schlosser, published 2013.
[2] Joseph P Farrell at the Secret Space Program Conference 2014 San Mateo presentation 1
referencing GeneralMajor Gehlen's memoirs.
[3] CIA History Reference
[4]"What I have been afraid to blog about the ESF and its history - part 2" Eric Decarbonnel
[5]"What I have been afraid to blog about the ESF and its history - part 3" Eric Decarbonnel
referencing War behind the Iron curtain - Peter Grose [pp67-68]

"Yes, but the whole point of the doomsday machine is lost if you keep it a secret!
Why didn't you tell the world?"
"It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday.
As you know, the Premier loves surprises."
        - Dr Strangelove & Russian Ambassador

Hang on to your sense of humour. You may need it.

"After the U.S. entered the war in December 1941, Secretary Morgenthau appointed
White to act as liaison between the Treasury and the State Department on all
matters bearing on foreign relations. He was also made responsible for the
Exchange Stabilization Fund." [1] The budget for the embryonic form of the CIA, the 
OSS, was also under White's control within the ESF.

Mr White was effectively in control of the world's financial system through the
Treasury's ownership of three-quarters of the world's monetary gold. He, with others
within the ESF, began planning what would later become the World Bank and the IMF. [2]

Both France and the UK exported their gold to Canada and to the USA for safekeeping
and to pay for war materials.

The Bretton Woods Conference was held in 1944. Among other things, White proposed a
system based on a gold-backed US$ as the world's reserve currency. The proposal was
attacked domestically as "a camouflaged method of lending billions of American
money abroad," and most US bankers opposed the plan. [2]5:44 Keynes also opposed the
plans, suggesting instead a self-regulating system based on an international "Bancor"
reserve system. White prevailed. With control of international finance resting in the
US$, and control of the $ resting with the Federal Reserve Banks, acting as agent for
the US Treasury, not much had changed.

The Wars ended, and treasure, including gold that Nazi Germany looted from Europe,
some $533M (1945 dollars) of gold and silver was recovered, mostly from the Merkers
Mine in Germany. [3]

Japan had a similar program called "Operation Golden Lily". Capt., later General Ed
Lansdale, briefed President Truman on the billions (1945 dollars) discovered, 1947.
Truman, on learning of the hoard, "after discussing this vast plunder with his cabinet,   
'decided to proceed with the recovery, but to keep it a State Secret'" [4]53.40

Note the difference in approach between the treasure plundered in Europe which was
eventually returned, and that plundered in Asia by Japan, from 1895 onwards, which
was not merely concealed, but given the protection of the US State.   

So, leave aside, for the moment, a multitude of probabilites on why this was done.

Logically, the place to put Secret Billions was the Treasury's ESF funds. These were
designed to operate without oversight or accountability since their inception in 1934.

"The heart and soul of covert operations" ... "provision of unvouchered funds, and the
inviolability of such funds to outside inspection" [2]6.24

Before moving on to other consequences of President Truman's decision, I will simply
point out that published US accounts since 1945 cannot be trusted. Any attempt to
model the US economy without accounting for secret activity will end in frustration.

Deceit on this scale corrodes the fabric of society. The Government, or at least an
important part of it, is no longer answerable to the democratic will of the people. 
It is also a negation of Capitalism - that each agent is equally, as far as reasonably
practicable, informed of the events taking place in the Markets. Note also, that failure
to disclose material facts may be a criminal offence. In other words, Fraud.

What may be excused as a short-term expedient is likely to result in disaster in the
longer term. Usually, the value of information declines rapidly with time, hence secrecy
can be quickly discarded. Where Secrecy conceals an ongoing and growing process of
public interest, it makes honest men into liars and criminalises honest answers. It
eventually destroys trust in the government, in this case, the US government.
This is not good if you have control the world's finances via only faith and credit.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White
[2] "What I have been afraid to blog about the ESF and its history - part 2" Eric Decarbonnel
[3] https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1999/spring/nazi-gold-merkers-mine-treasure.html
[4] Joseph P Farrell at the Secret Space Program Conference 2014 San Mateo presentation 1
referencing "Covert Wars and Breakaway Civlisations" p137 and "Gold Warriors" p3

Keep smiling - there's more. Much, much, more :-)

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master that's all.'
Lewis Carroll - "Through the Looking Glass"

From 1900 - 1945 the Question "Who is to be Master" brought about a series of wars,
the most memorable of these were WWI and WWII. One might suppose that domination of
seventeen-twentieths of the world's surface would ensure the rapid assimilation of
the remainder, and failure to succeed in that goal was not for want of trying. The
twenty years preceding the first World War [1] are remarkably similar to moves in a
game of Monopoly, with the City and Foreign Office moving together to gain an
advantage.

Reading the detail of these manoeuvrings one cannot help but wonder at the gulf in
understanding between the general public in the UK, the USA, and much of Europe,
and the "one man in a thousand" [1] in possession of the facts. In this respect,
control of the flow of information acts much like the control of the flow of credit,
though today's digital world makes the comparison between the two much clearer.
The two actors, the City and the UK Government, both have separate access to credit
and to data, and both compete for the sinews of control via the legal constraints
on their power. In this respect, the international routes available to finance give
banking an advantage over the UK Government when the British Empire began to dissolve.

The Constitution of the USA had a similar blind spot, being focused on a balance
between the Judiciary, the Executive and the Legislative branches of Government,
despite evidence of the dangers that Banks might pose to the Nation. These dangers
need not be pre-planned malice, but may be systemic in nature.

I will add my own thoughts to the matter - the interest accumulated on debt and the
costs of the first World War resulted in an excess of debt over the ability to pay.
The settlement at the end of that war provided a flow of gold from Germany to France,
and from France and the UK to the USA. The reparations were delayed, and France
occupied the Ruhr in 1923. " With the collapse of the German economy in 1931,
reparations were suspended for a year and in 1932 during the Lausanne Conference
they were cancelled altogether. Between 1919 and 1932, Germany paid less than 21
billion marks in reparations." After coming to power in 1933 Adolf Hitler halted
all outstanding payments. At the peak of German Hyperinflation it was said that
an ounce of gold would purchase a city block (1923).

"The fact that British capital played an important role in the great crash of the
American market in 1929 seems beyond question." [1p72]

February 13 1933 President Hoover farewell address "If Europe wants us to cut down
war debts [about twenty billion] she will have to go back on gold standard and
stabilise her currency. Otherwise we will have to go off the gold standard and
depreciate our currency in this destructive trade war." [3]

"The governments of Britain, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, and Romania
were unable to make full war debt payments to the United States and offered symbolic
 token payments instead. The global depression undermined these countries' ability
to meet their debt obligation. Congress planned action to punish governments which
reneged on their war debts to the U.S." [2] June 1933

Nov 1933 US recognises USSR - Soviets will "consider" repayment of war and earlier debts.   

America devalues its currency - the $ now buys 40 percent less gold. 
8 Feb 1934 The US formally ends the gold standard. Americans are restricted in the
amount of gold they may own. On April 30 America's gold, some $2Bn, was moved into a
special Treasury fund to stabilise the US$ - the ESF. [4]0.48 (abstract NYT)
From that point on the US Treasury, through the ESF, controlled international finance.[4]2.50
The effect ... was "to nullify, if not to scrap, the Federal Reserve System" [4]5.30

In early 1939 the rapid expansion of Germany's economy was beginning to generate difficulties.
Hitler sacks Dr. Hjalmar Schacht, who had been appointed President of the Reichsbank
in March 1933.

On 1 March 1941 the US Treasury had $22,200,000,000 in gold - Lewiston Daily Sun [4]
some three-quarters of the world's monetary gold. The Secretary of the Treasury was
in effective control of the world's currencies, without any oversight or legal constraint,
since 1934.[6]

Mr Decarbonnel argues that the Fed did a better job of stabilising the currency than
the Treasury, based on the CPI calculations available. The merits of that argument are
what they are, but it is clear that since 1934, the decline is inexorable. see 1944
"The Fund, as created, is unsound and will increase the already grave danger of inflation." [5]5.49

[1] "The Empire of the City" E C Knuth 1945
[2]http://indiana.edu/~league/1933.htm
[3] "The Great Depression - A Diary" Benjamin Roth   
[4] "What I have been afraid to blog about the ESF and its history - part1" Eric Decarbonnel
[5] "What I have been afraid to blog about the ESF and its history - part2" Eric Decarbonnel
Note : The graph in [4] of $ purchasing power vs time 1800-present illustrates a clear trend from
1934 when the US Treasury took control. A graph showing only  1913 - present might suggest some
responsibility lies with the Federal Reserve Banks for the continuing decline of the US$, but
on the balance of probabilities, the Treasury secretariat bears responsibility for the decline.
[6] Some 17,230 Tons, though whether this includes gold held for "safekeeping" is unknown.
Rumours suggest that gold was transferred by US battleships from China to the USA in 1938. 
I am unable to confirm how much, if any. was transported.

"All my possessions for a moment of time" attributed to Queen Elizabeth I
near the time of her death in 1603.

Almost 300 years later, in 1901, Queen Victoria died. Much had changed.
Through the Royal Navy and its control of the Sea-Lanes, the British
Empire controlled "seventeen-twentieths of the world's surface." [1][2]

Such dominance does not come about by accident, and by 1912, forecasts
of world conflict were published, gigantic in scale, "one war if the
Empire is destroyed, a series if it is victorious." [1][2]

By this certain knowledge a series of events were put in train, as each
Faction, Nation, and Sector sought to place itself to be if not advantaged
in the outcomes, at worst to suffer no loss. Chief among these concerns were
the design and manufacture of armaments and the flow of funds necessary to
finance the coming wars.

Near-total control of the world is a rare enough occurrence to suggest a
brief look at the management structure:
A Royal Family, as the public face
The City of London,  providing financial management
The Imperial Civil Service, Parliament, and the Armed Services
Corporate industries
the People.

Of these, the balance of power between the City, The Government, and
the Corporations drove the growth of Empire. While the UK growth rates fell
in the late 19th century they were still well above any historical
precedent prior to the industrial revolution.

Globally, the balance of power was beginning to move toward Germany and
toward the United States of America as these countries sought new markets
for their produce, and to defend their ability to export and to import.

Thus in 1901, when Queen Victoria died, the network of alliances and
Treaties became stressed. First the USA, and by then Germany, exceeded
the GDP of the United Kingdom. The result was a race to build the biggest
and most technologically advanced fleet of warships that could be afforded.

No sane person starts a war without the expectation of victory. That said,
war was a constant news item in the British Press in a steady escalation
from 1870. Much of the turmoil of this time was micromanaged by the financiers
of the City, though not always with the intent of throwing petrol on the fire.
No sane person starts a war without the expectation of financial support.

In much the same way that the beatings will continue for as long as the
Elite knows best, whatever the trigger, the Elite then has to get the
rest of the 99% to actually fight the war. The trigger for World War I
was an assassination, and some lurid propaganda "Germans bayonetted
Belgian Babies" moved things on early in 1914.

The Battle of Jutland in 1916 was, at that moment, indecisive, revealing
the prospect of a prolonged destructive conflict. How the USA came into
the war on the Allied side in 1917 is worthy of a separate story. It's
worth noting that financing the war promoted innovation and prepared the
way for breaking the link between paper money and gold. This was in part
driven by the needs of the UK and the needs of Germany for raw materials,
commodities, and finished goods of all types, and by the excess production
capacity in the USA over and above the internal needs of that Nation.

When WWI ended, France demanded and got, crushing reparations placed upon
Germany, against the advice of the other parties. The UK and France
had significant debts outstanding to the USA, some of which were
eventually written off.

The British Empire was still largely intact, but it would not hold
together much longer. The illusion of World Domination has passed to
other hands.

[1] "The Day of the Saxon" Homer Lea 1912.
[2] "The Empire of the City" E C Knuth 1945 

@OROBTC - thanks - hopefully you get fewer sleepless nights than I re this.

...

minor-transgression wrote (snip of just above):

"This is depression economics, where it's better to hold onto your resources than to
buy or sell."

Your whole post was eye-opening.  If we are indeed in a new era where our economy (most of our economies) are now Zero Sum Games, than that is indeed fundamentally bad news.

And we may be in such an era of Zero Sum.  I am working my way through a new book by Marc Levinson (An Extraordinary Time) which presents his case for a return to the very slow growth throughout most of history.  Overly briefly (and I have not finished the book), he writes that the conditions of the 1946 - 1973 boom have changed, in large part (but not completely, there are other bad omens too) due to energy.

* * *

Buying and HODLing of gold and BTC looks like an even better idea.

"Never give a sucker an even break" Film title 1941

I made a couple of remarks on another thread about economics and game theory.
Thinking about it, those remarks tossed pretty much every piece of economic
theory post Adam Smith into the shredder. The result? ..... Crickets.

Nobody said "You're Wrong!" and nobody seemed to suffer a panic attack. Ho hum.

At the risk of repeating myself, today's global economy finds itself in a kind of 
Prisoner's Dilemma. Deals between agents are completed because each benefits from
the transaction. Of four possible outcomes, the win-win result satisfies both
parties. Almost all of history records growth in economies, a series of win-win
outcomes. Win-lose outcomes imply duress on the losing party.

It's possible to model less benign economics, and as a general comment, they are
unstable. Note that even benign economies are unstable, hence it's difficult to
clarify the difference. But game theory explains it succinctly.

It's called the zero-sum game. For someone to win, someone else has to lose.
And that's a whole new way of thinking about the world. It also explains much
of the dysfunctional behavior visible today, including the drop in international
world trade. At a personal level, if you want to win on a trade, make sure that
there's a sucker on the other side.

That means playing with a marked deck, it means insider trading, it means CEO's
buying stock with cheap credit instead of investing in the future of the business.
It means passing legislation and signing treaties to disadvantage competitors. If
they can be jailed and assets forfeited so much the better. Capiche?

This is depression economics, where it's better to hold onto your resources than to
buy or sell. Instead of a competitive advantage, you're looking for a sucker.

But enough with the drama, what about the facts? Is it enough to know this has been
brought about by a combination of Central Bank incompetence and by resource
depletion? Because when it comes down to supposed hard facts like growth, things
get kinda slippery. Even basic nominal GDP is suspect, see Ireland's figures for
the glaring example. After that, factor in CPI to calculate real GDP. So, expect to
wait a while, say five of ten years for the revisions and internal contradictions
to be resolved. For a critique on the calculation on US CPI see this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-14/mad-hell
"Even worse, while the rate of health care inflation is being understated at the individual premium level shown above, it's also wildly understated in the larger inflation statistic used to level-set everything from cost-of-living adjustments (COLA) to pay raises across the country."

Comments? I mean, I haven't seen a rush to contradict any of the mainstream
economists, or to inform them they're the equivalent of the buggy whip, so
I assume everybody's happy with the Emperor's New Clothes, to mix metaphors.

And, yes, hang onto your Bitcoin. An Even Break is already a Collector's Item.

PS: Once you get the idea of a zero sum game into your head, it emerges everywhere,
with the Brexit negotiations as only one example. I'd suggest taking some time to
let this line of thought percolate into your way of thinking. That way you will pick up
on the constant references to unfair advantage in our current way of living

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife."
This is the opening line of "Pride and Prejudice" by Jane Austen, published 1813.

Some years earlier, in 1779 the Smethwick steam engine was designed and brought into
service by James Watt. This event brought a new phase of the Industrial Revolution,
and arguably leading to the progressive reduction in slavery within the British
Empire, and its eventual abolition in 1833.

Thus, unlike the civilisations of the Roman Empire and the Democracy of Athens,
slavery would not have figured prominently in the life of Jane Austen, the slaves
providing the "good fortunes" were a safe distance away in the West Indies and other
colonies, well away from British polite society and the creative cauldron of
its technological advances. 
 
This veneer of civilisation had gradually been applied beginning three centuries earlier
when tribal clan wars had met with ruthless Tudor efficiency. Prior to that period,
cattle-raiding of one clan by another, or spring campaigns and autumn campaigns by
Norsemen on settled peaceful communities wove a thread of violence through everyday
life. By the early 1800's murder for profit was the business of governments, and if they
went about their business with a cheerful efficiency, it was still constrained by the
recognised rules of warfare. It would be a mistake though, to think that below the
veneer very much has changed.

Today, well, there's nothing quite like computers for improving efficiency. Governments
love them, along with files, hightec weapons and lists. Especially lists. Governments
have lists for everything, and some include people to be murdered. Democracies and
Dictatorships just go about it a little differently. For some background material on
how the USA goes about this see this: "Where is Eric Braverman Day 71"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7T7o5BhARTY

The problems today are of the real world leaking into everyday western consciousness.
The carefully constructed theme of the bad guys are over there, not over here then begins
to break down. That tends to cause further problems with kill lists, because the killing
comes closer to home, and because the people start thinking for themselves.

Think of a kill list as a pyramid. At the very top are a very few people with the knowledge,
skills, resources and opportunities to directly damage the top politicians and civil
servants. Further down are many more people with lesser skills, resources and motivation. 
Broadening and deepening the base transfers exponentially more people onto the kill list.

Most people, consciously or unconsciously have trained themselves to avoid actions that
might get their identity moved closer to a kill list, but sometimes the moral imperatives
are just too great. The real challenge then arises of what do you tell your family and friends
about how the world is run.

Fortunately the world of Jane Austen still persists. Provided that slavery, inequality and
oppression are kept out of sight of everyday western life, our governments are freed
to murder with little consequence. If somebody dies, they probably deserved it and it's a
price worth paying to keep "us" safe. They see no contradiction with "If you have nothing
to hide, you have nothing to fear" and are content to advantage themselves of a single
man with a good fortune without considering how the fortune came into being.

I suspect that world is about to change, and soon. If or when that happens any form
of anonymity will be greatly sought after.

...

I had an idea re using "steganography" (an encryption technique that uses pictures (changed pixels) to hide information there in an image) along with Bitcoin to make the whole BTC process more private.

One example might be to put a Public Key and a Private Key encoded there in the image (say a picture of the Grand Canyon), then send it on to the lucky recipient who could then retrieve the BTC within.

I throw this idea out to the community gratis as it is not even "half-baked", and I am completely unable to advance this idea on my own.  I get some of my most interesting ideas in the shower, where this one was born.

I'd be interested in the general topic of using steganography to hide information as well.

King nigger spends $85 million on holidays: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article123335079.html

The Turner Diaries is non-fiction:

"The "System" begins by implementing numerous repressive laws on various forms of hate by repealing laws against rape (as rape laws are often viewed as "racist"), by making it a "hate crime" for white people to defend themselves from crime by non-whites even after all weapons are confiscated, and by pushing for new surveillance measures in order to monitor its citizens, such as a special passport required at all times and in all places to permanently monitor where individuals are."

Nicee 

Suffering from the same disease as Vancouver. Didn't get hit by the 08 crisis - China's build everything stimulus bailed us mining dominant countries out. Then interest rates began following the rest of the world down as our mining sector boomed. Prices went up all over. As Chinese and anyone else looking for an easy carry trade or a place to safely store their wealth figured out, Australia is pretty good (ala Vancouver, London etc)

Western Australia and Northern territory prices have dropped sharply as mining boom dies but eastern australia is ridiculous. I could give plenty of anecdotes regarding the stupidity of our local populations attitude to property, to crazy shit from overseas buyers to the complicitness of the media and government in pushing this rapidly expanding ponzi scheme. But, ill only give a few.

- "i have to buy now, borrow 100% of loan because ill get priced out if i can. It will never go down because the government wont let it. They're also building a road/train line/hospital etc in 5 years so get in now"- at every BBQ in Syd, Melb, Brisbane.

- friend of mine, his neighbors house was bought by a chinese guy. its a run down 3 bedder in a good area. mate talks to buyer who says 'if you know anyone who wants to sell, ill pay cash'. mate asks what he will do with this one he just bought? chinese guy says 'nothing'. he sold it 6 months later to another chinese buyer for a 300k profit, didn't move in, didnt do a thing.

- Oz sold 96k apartments nationwide to June 2016. In next year new builds coming on to market are around 93k. this doesn't include old inventory or the fact that a % of buyers can't get finance anymore and have to forfeit deposit. Government has again changed laws to enable foreign buyers to pick up this excess stock. Wouldn't want developers to go bust or the market to slow knowing our private debt to gdp is crazy.

- one real estate spruiker who owns hundreds of properties and is levered up was recently asked how he will cope if there are big problems in China? he said 'who cares about china!'

i dont think the real estate bubble will pop by itself, at least not due to domestic factors, we are too attached to it politically, culturally and socially. but once shit happens overseas, we are goners and we'll deserve everything we get.

I would only consider real estate in the US if there wasn't so much bureaucracy involved with getting a green card, I would consider living in Texas, Arizona or Florida, North Korea seems more appealing than Australia at the moment.

That's interesting, I would not have guessed that property in Oz would be expensive, so much land and all.  Maybe GOOD property (without the snakes, etc.) or along the beach I could see being pricey.

Land itself has gone up a lot over the past few years (esp. like farmland in places like Iowa), but I have not looked at it nor read anything in about a year.  Right now we are concentrating on selling our ocean-view condo, then we will move into a smaller one (& cheaper, inland some).

trollerc, either here or elsewhere, drop us a line about TYPE of real estate you might like, wow, that could be a LOOOOONG thread...

DEFINITELY check with me if you're interested in Washington DC!  [Our daughter is a realtor there]

Taxes will rise on everything tangible (including precious metals) that is why you hide your assets in crypto-currency where they can only tax the fiat on/off ramps (exchanges).

That is why precious metals are inferior because you can't spend them directly (and this will unit-of-exchange feature never come back for metals! Not even in a mad-max collapse scenario) and thus they are taxed/confiscated at the exchanges/dealers or when you travel with them; whereas, for example with the new social network I will create on a crypto-currency, your crypto-currency will be very liquid.

Precious metals are so stupid now. You can't even move without having them confiscated. Keep them in a vault business and the government knows where to go confiscate them.

I was a little interested in the US myself, property is incredibly cheap compared to this communist shit hole.

...

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a realtor here in town.

He (he and his wife are from Spain and maintain connections to their friends & families there) told me that European countries will definitely raise taxes (esp. on the "rich"), as they WILL NOT cut spending (no votes in cutting spending).

And they will do things like introduce NEW taxes, apparently real estate is not heavily taxed (it is kind of heavily taxed here, it varies by state, but 1% - 2% of real estate value goes to "Property Tax").

Europe already has high Income Tax as well as a VAT that is typically 17% - 21%.

He was NOT optimistic re Europe and "Economic Totalitarianism", he is getting inquiries from Norwegians, etc. who are looking to US property as a "Plan B" (smile).

The Australian government is destroying everything for money: http://www.topherfield.net/ato-takes-hutt-river-province/