Topic: Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements - page 18. (Read 41582 times)

It's not snobbery. The restrictions have nothing to do with newbies who come here to learn,contribute or be a part of the community.

The restrictions were put in place to combat the spam problem that had overrun most decent conversations on the forum.

That is why people are happy to see this in place.

I was confused that senior members express so much joy of new restricts for nubies.
Little less snobbery would be better.

I understand that sometimes there is a risk that another member might not see a responsive post.

Seems like sending me a PM would be the most certain way to alert me to such a post - or alternatively, responding to one of my posts might cause me to notice it. 

Appreciate a lot that you took so much of your time to make such a complete reply to my post(s). You are gaining adicional respect from me.
Will take some time during the weekend to send to you some of the post/phrases that I read that triggered me so much, but none of them towards me and some examples, also ,of high ranked members that I think post a lot of garbage posts, just to clear enough my previous opinions.

PS- No clue how can I tag you, but I think that you know is for you.

I suppose that I could take your word on that point, and perhaps there is no real evidence that you were attempting to get merits? 

By the way, this whole topic is not about you, either, and when members, such as me, respond to public posts, there are likely certain public elements to the response that might be targeted at either other possible readers or just making related post that we would like to make, within our discretion or just by happenstance.



Surely, you are bringing this up on your own, because I don't recall directly accusing you of such.. I doubt that I even thought that.  Now you make me question my own thoughts about you.. and why would I care about you, except that I am responding to your post, right? ... hahahahahaha


Seems like these kinds of assertions would need examples, right?  It is one thing if a member uses colorful and expressive and even assertive language and another thing if the member seems to be engaging in abusive behavior.

Of course, some higher ranked members are going to blow their tops sometimes, and perhaps even go overboard a bit in their addressing more junior members - including newbies.. but part of the justification for their behavior could be the pervasiveness of trolls, spammers and scammers.  Surely, I cannot speak for others especially when there is not a context, but I believe sometimes strong language is appropriate, too, and sometimes members need to learn how to have a bit of a skin to tolerate "meanies" on the internet.

I am fairly certain if anyone is able to identify a pattern of behavior that goes overboard and reports the behavior, then at least it will be looked into by moderators/administrators, unless they conclude that the reported "abuse" does not rise to the level of disciplinary behavior.




Actually, sometimes clarification can be achieved through back and forth posts as long as posters are willing to go through such back and forth... Sometimes, the back and forth escalates and just goes into yelling back and forth...

Actually, in my forum history, I have had some fairly intensive back and forths with members, and sometimes we will "make up" later, even if we might have some disagreements about some of the fundamentals.


I find nothing wrong with attempts at self-sufficiency, and surely self-sufficient and resourceful folks are going to be able to learn and to provide value especially when it can be difficult to sort through good and bad information and even misleading information that comes out in these kinds of forums.

On the other hand, many of us might need some help from time to time in attempting to figure out some current dynamic in the space and not necessarily jumping to bad conclusions based on incomplete information... even some of the smartest posters need to gather some information from other members from time to time.. I am thinking about one particular poster who is considered real smart (I don't want to say the name), but anyhow, the point is that even the smartest posters sometimes will benefit themselves (and others) by asking some questions (even basic questions) before rushing to conclusions that are NOT sufficiently supported by evidence.  From time to time, I am guilty of the same (by the way, some others might proclaim that I am guilty of this a lot, but surely I am not going to go anywhere near that level of concession... hahahahahaha).


This point also seems to require some evidence, and sometimes the condemnation is not merely based on "being different" but instead based on some specific situation that has arisen. 

Without having to go back and peruse every point that we made in our posts, for you and me, it seems that I have been condemning you (to the extent that my words fit into the category of condemnation) for failing and refusing to back up some of your conclusions, and I had also suggested some ways that you might attempt to provide value to the forum, if you were so inclined to share some of your research into the topics of your stated concerns.


Not everyone here is a human, and that remains part of the problem in dealing with bots, and many newbies are bots, too.   

The unique and different proclamation sounds like a meaningless platitude that does not progress the conversation.

One way that we can attempt to verify that another poster is human, and is a human that is attempting to provide value to the forum is by interacting with the poster.   Part of the issue that involved the current topic of this thread, here, is that theymos is attempting to provide weeding out tools that make it more difficult for non-humans and disingenuous posters to invade the forum and to take away forum value.



Perhaps there has been some miscommunications based on language issues (English level), so fair enough that you attempt to clarify that.


Based on your already stated concerns, it remains unclear to me why you are spending so much time on this particular topic and even your assertion that higher ranking members are abusive of their rank... I also don't understand why it would be necessary to attempt to clarify your concerns, here, but surely you have a right to express such concerns; however, when members like me read your concerns (and we perceive a lot of ambiguity and perhaps speaking out of both sides of the mouth) then it may spark some of us into aggressive responses towards you, so it is possible that you are sparking the behavior about which you you are supposedly concerned.

Not to mention it's somewhat easy to abuse merit and give 1 point using an alt. It's just simply not as obvious, and hard to detect.

Switching to a more random number would be better. Sending 3 merits on the same date, that abuse would be a bit more obvious.

I've been working and I'm going to be working on scripts/bots to detect spam, I would be able to pickup abuse of 3 merits easier than 1 merit.

I noticed the mention of the idea of buying Junior membership. There's only 1 way I like that idea:
If the funds collected from the purchasing of junior membership is funnelled into the mods and developers contracted on behalf of BitcoinTalk to create scripts/bots which detect spam and try to prevent future spam. I'm currently working on some bots/scripts on my own time volunteer wise, but if BitcoinTalk was able to hire developers to create these spam prevention methods, I know a lot of good developers would join in and help (myself included, I'd be able to put a lot more time towards it). Doesn't have to be a hiring procedure, could be a bounty ("First developer to create a way to prevent xyz gets X.XX BTC)

This almost creates sort of a task force against spam, through advanced detection. It would make it easier on moderators, and make it less worth creating spam accounts.

And believe me, I'm not just saying this because I'm a developer. While I'd definitely bid to help, I'm going to be creating scripts/bots to detect against this regardless. I just think the motivation of developers to help out would be greatly increased. Sort of like the BountySource effect.

The nice thing about bots/scripts that scrape BitcoinTalk is that they don't require admin access. And it could be a really cool system. For example: BitcoinTalk could give out a API for reporting of spam (obviously to only select contractors). The amount collected by Junior memberships would be divided by this project/mods. The amount (hereby called "the pot") would be up for grabs by the developers creating these scripts. The amount of successful spam reports by these bots/scripts would give them a stake of "the pot" on a per weekly basis (or other timeframe)

IDK, just a thought. I think it'd be a cool way to promote developers to fight the spam on BitcoinTalk using computing power, even if it is a minimal amount.

Here's the thing. The newbies who deserve to rank up aren't the ones in these threads.

A good user who sees a new requirement for them to gain a single merit doesn't jump in to Meta and bitch about the merit system/higher ranked members/losing their reason for spamming/etc. They also don't make a post saying how great the change is, because they clearly don't believe that and it's a hollow attempt at begging.

A good user who sees a new requirement for them to gain a single merit goes to the sticked post about merit, learns about the merit system, reads the top merited posts of all time and recent, and examines and changes their own posting behaviour.

Unfortunately the former outnumber the latter by 100 to 1.

| 1104048 | jdgranfiel                |    17792 |      280 |
| 1215835 | Jrfranco                  |    17792 |      280 |  these 2 also did some post other then the bounty garbage

first 19 on the list 18 are hunting for bounty money  4 of them bothered to try to write some other posts  1 is a coin or ico guy and may get a merit from me.

Have to rest my eyes for now.

If you read my posts about this topic you can clearly see that I do not give a damn about getting merits.  I am not a professional bounty hunter, also. But I give a damn when I read some people that seem to be so intitled to make fun, address others in an unpolite way and in a patronising way when their own records are full of garbage posts in my opinion. I am sorry if I was not clearly enough about this. And yes, I am a newbie here and I never asked for anyone help because I like to find my own way to solve my own issues, if possible. Do not condemn other people for being different, anyway. We are all just humans afterall, so each one unique and different.
Edit: Just to be clear, I did not pretend to say that asking for help is a garbage post. English is not my native language, as you may suspect by now.
I hope that this time I was clear enough why I do not have a lot of respect for this change of rules and how they were implemented and are being addressed.

did these today

| 1269904 | arbl0422                  |    17792 |      294 |
| 1411783 | Vika12345                 |    17792 |      294 |
| 1428814 | rizabek123                |    17792 |      294 |
| 1430930 | Valhalaa                  |    17792 |      294 |
| 1445790 | Ramadhoni060616           |    17792 |      294 |

| 1450751 | siena23                   |    17792 |      294 |
|  979603 | duncaneastlance           |    17792 |      283 |

the two in bold made some effort to post stuff other then facebook or twitter campaigns

How the fuck is anyone going to understand what the fuck you are talking about, unless you share some of your evidence regarding how you reached your conclusions, or at least provide some kind of a verifiable description of your evidence - otherwise you are merely making vague and unverifiable claims.

By the way, you can find all kinds of shit that support almost any thesis by researching the historical posts of members, and if you don't share your evidence, then hardly anyone will know what you are talking about and thereby you would only be appealing to folks who are already inclined to agree with your conclusions and without evidence.  I doubt that would be very convincing for a vast majority of members here, especially when you are starting out with little to no credibility (if we are assigning some value to merits or maybe there is some other measure that you would prefer to help you establish credibility?)



Fair enough point; however, your earlier post suggests to me that you might be able to profit from such research.. but perhaps I was reading too much into the lacking of the post and your supposed insight into value was not clear from me based on what you already said... by the way, I did not read your post history, either, before I made my response to you.



Who gives a ratt's ass whether you are a newbie or not?  You are posting from a newbie account, and the content of your earlier post comes off as newbie-ish - especially in its seeming lack of backing for your various conclusory remarks.


Maybe you are making shit up?  

I don't deny that I have been helped a lot in this forum and through my participation in other forums.  I also have these kinds of interactions in real life too that are both learning and teaching events.  

In various forums, I interact with people (or at least their posts) and I frequently profit from such interactions, even though they do take a certain amount of time to carry out.  I would like to conclude that I help people from time to time, too in my participation in various forums (and threads) and in real life too, and largely, there is no direct money being exchanged for my learning from the posts or from the substantive interactions that I provide.

I understand that some people charge for their services, and perhaps monetized relationships can provide additional value, but they also change the dynamics of the relationships.  

Again, your point about providing free information versus charging for the information remains a vague one, too, and you are certainly not demonstrating that someone like me would be willing to pay for your information or your services.  Furthermore, over the years, the internet has certainly changed the dynamics in which a lot of previously paid for information has been made available for free for those who are willing to search it out and to perform some leg work to filter the good, bad and the ugly... or at least to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Let's give it some time and check how many newbies with 28+ activity we still have in a few weeks. I think even 1 merit is going to be a huge obstacle for the vast majority of shitposters.

I never said I was willing to share it. I never said I had no idea what is for me valuable posts. I never said I am a newbie on cryptoland. Maybe in fact, I helped you in other platforms, a lot, in certain projects, during several months and for free. But you are welcome, if this was the case.

If I had any merits I would give one to you now. Respect for you Sir for not checking only for your own belly.

Actually, if you do some research into higher ranking members and read some of their posts it is possible that you could learn some things about posting, adding value, and perhaps even how the posts of members might evolve over time.  

You could also create a thread about the topic, and contribute some value by pointing out good, bad or neutral posts.

One thing that can be complicated about looking at old posts is making sure that you attempt to understand the context in which the post is made, yet I would imagine if you were to spend a bit of time to produce some valuable insight regarding the post history of some older users, without getting caught up in petty conclusory remarks, then you would gain some credibility in this forum.    

I suspect however, that you are more talk than substance, and you really are not ready, willing and/or able to do some leg work in order to attempt to make your various points.  You would rather make your vague and quasi-nonsensical points based on supposed evidence, rather than actual evidence.

   Hello all moderators  ,
   Realy , I don’t want to give my judgment on this new decision before getting clear answers about my following questions :
   1- do you think that buying copper membership will improve the newbie’s  posts quality ?
   2- what is the main problem now , the increasing of  garbage-posting posts or the decreasing of high-level posts ?
   3- are the newbies members only responsible for upgrading forum’s posts level ? if they aren’t only ,what are your related decisions to push or force the high-order members to improve their posts quality and do you have the tools which allow you to monitor and evaluate their performance in order to make the appropriate decisions to improve their performance? as what  now happening with newbies … thank you .

I must confess I am very curious to check some of the posts of higher ranked members to see their contribution to this forum, other than manage it, lets say, in this last 2 weeks.
I started to check some of them already.
So far it seems that all of them are concerned with garbage posting.
I have been checking some of the posts of them already, to check for their quality posts and absence of garbage posts. Interesting conclusions so far.

PS - I was very impressed with the "tremendous respect" that the work of so many people with signatures, that were already Jr Member, deserved. Just a big waste of time, now time to beg to have all your work of months being take in account. But afterall you are just a newbie, even maybe a farmer of accounts, bot or whatever, so just move on if you don´t like it. You are not worth to be amoung so many amazing and superb members that are able to earn merits so easily.

NOT


hahahahahahaha         

I understand that the subjective views of members vary, and personally, I found the substance of what you are saying, above, to be merit worthy.  However, I don't personally merit posts that attempt to stand out by using ALL CAPS throughout the text, BOLD and change of color... unless you are trying to be funny, and the humor strikes me.  

Others might differ, but it seems to me that you are weeding out some potential merit when you distract from your substance and post in such a seemingly attention seeking kind of way, that is not made in an attempted humor context (like by below post, for example ... hahahahahahaha).

What would be the solution to quality posts receiving merits since there is a bit of subjectivity involved in determining what is a quality post?

I have seen some posters attempt to highlight quality posts by responding to them, and saying that they would merit the post, but that they do not have any merits, and sometimes that will inspire someone else to merit the post. 

It seems to me that sometimes you can quote a quality post, and you can point out what makes that post a quality post, which might not only cause the original post to receive a merit, but also might cause your recognition post to receive a merit (while you are contributing value to the forum).

By the way, I have sen some posts that are quite complicated and they quote others and they even provide links, but sometimes I feel way too busy to read the post in detail and disinclined to click on the enclosed links - any newer member could increase his/her likelihood of receiving merits by reading the post and links, quoting it, and summarizing what is great or not so great about the post.  Frequently members will find those kinds of discussions to be valuable and sometimes inspire members to spend some of their smerits.