You could even put sha256 mining code in your contract. So anyone can come along and contract an Ethereum miner to mine bitcoin for them.
That is ... genius. The thought of an idea like that actually being possible.
Topic: Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing - page 30. (Read 84330 times)
January 13, 2014, 01:45:00 AM
That is ... genius. The thought of an idea like that actually being possible.
January 13, 2014, 01:41:39 AM
Very interesting!!! 
January 13, 2014, 01:31:52 AM
I was aware of this since about a week from the i3 forums. Apparently creator of ethereum is an ex founder of invictus.
I also read the white paper seems promising, however I see no mention of an IPO like OP says or am I missing something?
I also read the white paper seems promising, however I see no mention of an IPO like OP says or am I missing something?
January 13, 2014, 12:12:00 AM
What I don't understand is who will do the computing for the Turing-complete "contracts"?
So a "contract" is supposed to be some script that is embedded on the blockchain. People can send messages to the contract that it will take as input to some computation. Maybe a simple example would be a vending machine. I send some bitcoins with a message "I want a Coke" to the vending machine contract. The vending machine processes my input and directs the physical vending machine in front of me to vend a Coke.
But that code has to run on a computer somewhere. Does it run on a miner's computer? If that's true then what prevents me from injecting malicious code? For example code that never halts and ties up resources?
Even if you don't have malicious code I could imagine people building complicated scripts that might tie up computation resources. How do you create an effective incentive scheme for miners then? You can't just use the code size because there is no relation between code size and resources required to run the code.
So a "contract" is supposed to be some script that is embedded on the blockchain. People can send messages to the contract that it will take as input to some computation. Maybe a simple example would be a vending machine. I send some bitcoins with a message "I want a Coke" to the vending machine contract. The vending machine processes my input and directs the physical vending machine in front of me to vend a Coke.
But that code has to run on a computer somewhere. Does it run on a miner's computer? If that's true then what prevents me from injecting malicious code? For example code that never halts and ties up resources?
Even if you don't have malicious code I could imagine people building complicated scripts that might tie up computation resources. How do you create an effective incentive scheme for miners then? You can't just use the code size because there is no relation between code size and resources required to run the code.
It looks like they try to mitigate this by taxing operations with fees:
Code:
TXFEE (100x) - fee for sending a transaction
NEWCONTRACTFEE (100x) - fee for creating a new contract, not including the memory fee for each item in script code
STEPFEE (x) - fee for every computational step after than first sixteen in contract execution
MEMORYFEE (100x) - fee for adding a new item to a contract's memory, including when first creating a contract. The memory fee is the only fee that is not paid to a miner, and is refunded when memory from a contract is removed.
DATAFEE (20x) - fee for accessing or setting a contract's memory from inside that contract
EXTROFEE (40x) - fee for accessing memory from another contract inside a contract
CRYPTOFEE (20x) - fee for using any of the cryptographic operations
January 12, 2014, 11:54:46 PM
i'll mine this coin
January 12, 2014, 11:53:10 PM
I'm not knowledgeable about how fast GDDR5 is vs. DDR3, but I don't think it's an order of magnitude right?
About half an order of magnitude in terms of BW
The main problem with vRAM tends to be latency, but it's less of an issue if you plan your implementation well
January 12, 2014, 11:48:32 PM
Interesting project with a novel algorithm. From what I understand, the algorithm (Dagger) is memory-hard not necessarily in bandwidth, but in space; using something like a GPU (with many threads) would benefit most from having lots of system memory:
512MB per thread .. wow.
Quote
This algorithm provides a proof of work mining function with memory hardness properties that are not ideal, but that are nevertheless a massive improvement over anything available previously. It takes 512 MB to evaluate, 112 KB memory and 4078 hashes to verify, and even the tinest time-memory tradeoff is not worthwhile to implement because of the bottom-level branching adjustment. These parameters allow Dagger to be much more daring in its memory requirements than Primecoin or scrypt, asking for 512 MB of RAM for a single thread. Because the primary determinant of hardness is memory, and not computation, specialized hardware has only a tiny advantage; even an optimal Dagger mining ASIC would have little to offer over a hobbyist purchasing hundreds of gigabytes of memory cards off the shelf and plugging them into a medium-power GPU. And even in such an equilibrium, mining with ordinary CPUs will likely continue to be practical.
512MB per thread .. wow.
I'll remain skeptical of possible speculation about the absence of TMTO solutions, as I've certainly heard this one before.
January 12, 2014, 11:46:52 PM
OK, so if I am interested on it, what to do now?
Register for the mailing list on the website or go the the Miami Bitcoin conference I assume, the group hasn't been putting out a lot of information (most of this was dug up from reddit or via Google).
I would speculate from the at least 3-5 people currently hacking on GitHub (and the rumoured current staffing of 5-20 people), that they already have a massive amount of funding running into the millions of dollars.
January 12, 2014, 11:46:15 PM
This does look promising... here's an article I found:
http://fusion.net/modern_life/story/ethereum-bitcoin-currency-created-19-year-372034
http://fusion.net/modern_life/story/ethereum-bitcoin-currency-created-19-year-372034
January 12, 2014, 11:45:34 PM
Interesting project with a novel algorithm. From what I understand, the algorithm (Dagger) is memory-hard not necessarily in bandwidth, but in space; using something like a GPU (with many threads) would benefit most from having lots of system memory:
512MB per thread .. wow.
Quote
This algorithm provides a proof of work mining function with memory hardness properties that are not ideal, but that are nevertheless a massive improvement over anything available previously. It takes 512 MB to evaluate, 112 KB memory and 4078 hashes to verify, and even the tinest time-memory tradeoff is not worthwhile to implement because of the bottom-level branching adjustment. These parameters allow Dagger to be much more daring in its memory requirements than Primecoin or scrypt, asking for 512 MB of RAM for a single thread. Because the primary determinant of hardness is memory, and not computation, specialized hardware has only a tiny advantage; even an optimal Dagger mining ASIC would have little to offer over a hobbyist purchasing hundreds of gigabytes of memory cards off the shelf and plugging them into a medium-power GPU. And even in such an equilibrium, mining with ordinary CPUs will likely continue to be practical.
512MB per thread .. wow.
January 12, 2014, 11:44:44 PM
OK, so if I am interested on it, what to do now?
January 12, 2014, 11:37:47 PM
Can it be mined with GPU?
Probably, the memory hard algorithms tend to favour whatever has the most memory bandwidth.
January 12, 2014, 11:34:59 PM
...
This is not MC2 and I am not involved in its development, but I am closely watching this to see where it goes!
...
I am glad we have the giant distraction of altcoins a'mundo. This is the one to watch... It goes back to simple protocols and a wishlist of many great features. (I hope we can code the superstructure and basic apps before everyone else figures what this "alt" coin is.) This is not MC2 and I am not involved in its development, but I am closely watching this to see where it goes!
...
For everyone who felt like they missed out on bitcoin's run - get ready, go!
PS. I think I'm going to relearn assembly language and get back into python/go...
Hi. I put in the disclaimer because someone in the first post seemed to think I was involved and it's typical for devs/crew themselves to make the ANN threads. I don't really want people hassling me w/r/t this alt chain either.
January 12, 2014, 11:19:24 PM
more info needed
January 12, 2014, 11:19:13 PM
Can it be mined with GPU?
January 12, 2014, 11:16:48 PM
This is a very interesting concept and I'll be keeping my eye on it.
January 12, 2014, 10:25:08 PM
...
This is not MC2 and I am not involved in its development, but I am closely watching this to see where it goes!
...
I am glad we have the giant distraction of altcoins a'mundo. This is the one to watch... It goes back to simple protocols and a wishlist of many great features. (I hope we can code the superstructure and basic apps before everyone else figures what this "alt" coin is.) This is not MC2 and I am not involved in its development, but I am closely watching this to see where it goes!
...
For everyone who felt like they missed out on bitcoin's run - get ready, go!
PS. I think I'm going to relearn assembly language and get back into python/go...
January 12, 2014, 09:10:24 PM
Quote
Ether will be sold in a Mastercoin-style fundraiser at the price of 1 ether for 0.0001 BTC. Suppose that X ether gets collected in this way.
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)
Yes but - there's dilution baked in, and the founder's shares are timelocked for 12 months before they can spend it (think of it as vesting).
From Vitalik's Reddit account: "The units will be in a timelock contract for at least one year, so they will be at most 1/8 when they actually become spendable. Just from a Zipf's Law perspective, I think it's likely that a single person will put in at least 8% of the total investment into the fundraiser, so the largest ether holder will likely not be a founder. Also, the big difference from Bitcoin (and especially the 100% premined/fundraised Ripple and Mastercoin) is that, once again, the currency is linear-inflationary, so the percentages will go down over time. I think that's the main moral objection people have with wealth inequality in existing cryptocurrencies; that the Winklevosses have not just 1%, but 1% of all that will ever exist. With Ethereum we don't have that."
January 12, 2014, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
Ether will be sold in a Mastercoin-style fundraiser at the price of 1 ether for 0.0001 BTC. Suppose that X ether gets collected in this way.
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)
January 12, 2014, 07:49:04 PM
It's like it's counting down to the miami bitcoin conference or something
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