Topic: Everything you wanted to know about Grayscale BTC Trust but were afraid to ask! - page 4. (Read 16372 times)

blackrock is at 28,622
grayscale is at 579,728

Here's a nice one provided by Bitebits.

update (18th edited about results of end of day of 17th)
Grayscale Investments ($GBTC) : 591,947btc
BlackRock Inc (IBIT) : 25,067.06btc
Fidelity Investments (FBTC) : 10,000btc
Bitwise (BITB) : 8,309btc
ARK 21Shares (ARKB) : 6,544btc
Invesco Galaxy (BTCO) : 3,200btc
VanEck (HODL) : 2,000btc
Valkyrie (BRRR) : 1,457btc
Franklin Templeton (EZBC) : 1,160btc
Hashdex (DEFI) : 400btc
WisdomTree (BTCW) : 75btc

total: 650,159~

majority is shifted from grayscale that was at something like 637k btc in 2023(from memory). and now down to 591k

update (17th posted about results of end of day of 16th)
blackrock 16,361.64 btc
grayscale still 605,890 btc

those "flows" charts are fiat measured. i personally am more interested in how many BTC are lockedup
things like blackrock have no updates since the 12th (presuming they done no deals) so sit at 11439btc(from 227btc on launch)
things like grayscale have updates as of the 16th so sit at 605,890btc(from ~630k on launch)

I can understand why the first few days and maybe even week might have some inconsistencies in data and maybe even getting used to how to find the data or to have some folks assembling the data, so many times we just get glimpses of the data, and maybe we get a more clear picture later down the road.  For many of us longer term bitcoiners who do not necessarily buy these kinds of products, we still may well be curious regarding the usage and the overall BTC flow into these kinds of products, and surely if there is net inflow or net outflow that would be interesting too - especially in regards to Grayscale having the ONLY starting product that would have outflow, but then after the various ETFs are in existence for a while, we are likely going to see some of them as leaders in the space and maybe even some drama related to fighting for liquidity (customers), and maybe it will become more clear or not regarding what kinds of switching costs any of them (talking about the end user) might have or if they might have tax consequences from their moving of funds - perhaps they might not have tax events if they are switching from one product to another, but if they completely get out, then they might have tax consequences at that point to the extent that they are not just getting into some other tax deferred/sheltered non-btc related product versus completely getting out.

Edited 1:  DaRude's post/chart from earlier today & twitter thread shows assets (BTC) under management.


https://twitter.com/JSeyff/status/1747366266166206505



Edited 2:  By the way, I noticed that the two later charts ONLY show 10 ETF's and they are missing Hashdex.. which the chart from your earlier post shows as having 0 volume on day 1 and only $11.9 million on day 2.. which $11.9 million isn't nothing, especially since it is not the smallest, and Wisdom tree was only showing $1million in the earlier charts.. but yeah, it is probably too preliminary and I don't claim to understand much of it.

The more I dig in those numbers, the more I find horrible results.
There are errors, inaccuracies, delays,
E.g. Friday flows for some of the funds aren’t still available (is that for MLK day?Are you serious?).
Anyways, I surely can try to produce something similar to what you ask, but I suspect someone will start pointing out those inconsistencies.

Yes.  It would be good to have one or two more columns showing the 1) total assets (bitcoin) under management and/or 2) changes in total assets under management.


Rome was not built in a day, so most likely attempt to read and post in areas that you know, and you can even create some of your own in-depth research on specific areas and then the more you interact with the materials, by both organizing it, analyzing it, and perhaps proposing opinions and/or questions about it, then the more knowledge you would likely build with the passage of time.   Of course some newer members come to the forum with a lot of experience from other areas, so there are some non-legendary members who come to the forum with a lot of knowledge and/or great presentation skills, too.

last week blackrock only had 227btc and GBTC had 630k-ish
this week blackrock has 11,440btc and GBTC has gone down to 617k-ish

i knew grayscale were not looking to accumulate more AP's nor more baskets. so we have to wait and see what the rest of this weeks brings because they didnt update their funding for monday so we just gotta wait and see if this week is any different than the initial rush of launch week

we could see alot of the 600k slide out of grayscale, but too soon to tell, all depends on the master plan of the big boys like fidelity and blackrock.
ark21 already left grayscale befor launch week, but that was small amounts compared to grayscales large hoard

It's really a thing when I see legendary post on this forum the difference is always so clear. Its really good beign here, lots of profitable knowledge, bur how do you guys know about all this stuff, can someone refer me to a place I can get indept technical lectures about the working of some technologies in bitcoin, cause I'm still stuck in a lot of things, can someone show the way forward to start understanding somethings like you guys. Like damn I'd love to

GBTC has been characterised by sustained outflows during the first two days:




Outflows in GBTC continue to push the discount to NAV at very high levels for an ETF.
The question is how much outflow to expect in the next few days, keeping this discount up.
Another question is: weren't the APs, or Market Makers, supposed to close this "arbitrage" through the creation/redemption mechanism?

gensler could have thought up a new goal post for crypto specific ETF. and played E warrens anti-bitcoin tag-line/rhetoric to the max. but he didnt really push the boat further into the deep dark oceans of regulation/warrens agenda by adding many extra rules that differ to tradeFi.

yes any ETF if held up and causing unrealistic business costs due to delaying past final deadlines for no reason can trigger lawsuits.. but with only ark21 being the final deadline jan 10th.. the other dozen would not have cause to sue and would have had to wait until march-june if gensler really wanted to delay things
gensler could have insisted ark21 wait 30 days after approval and ark21 would have had to peacefully wait too as thats the norm
but gensler allowed then to start ASAP

yes the grayscale lawsuit last year made the SEC actually communicate more. but i can think of a variety of ways the SEC could have denied most of the ETFs yesterday.

id say a nuanced answer of

gensler is pro bitcoin but has to toe the Elizabeth warren tagline to keep his job(politically)
gensler declined grayscale last year due to internal politics
grayscale had influence only directly on making SEC fear ark21 lawsuit if ark was denied for lame reason

legally gensler only had to announce ark21. but wanting fair competition and to get ETF running by approving all
he said they didnt need to wait 30 days and i think thats more of his pro bitcoin side showing.. even if he concluded his annoucement statement with echos of e warrens tagline of anti-bitcoin sentiments

i previously assumed gensler would have only approved 1-4 due to the media impressions of drama remarking gensler as anti-bitcoin and his bosses (senators) being anti bitcoin. so assumed the stance of it being a tough call for gensler to blanket approve all..
however he turned out to be lenient in the end

---

now with all thats said and the ETF decisions made. this topic can get back to GBTC specific details or details affecting GBTC now the whole scenario is dealt with

Personally I am still a bit confused regarding how GBTC gets anyone to trade with them at a price that might be close to NAV, since the fees on the Grayscale product are many times higher than the fees on other products.  So why would anyone want to buy the GBTC ETF on an exchange when there are other products that compete on lower fees?  The discount would likely ONLY go away if there is some abilities to trade them on the open market in ways that are similar to the other ETF products.  Does anyone have any kind of explanation for that?

I think Grayscale contributed a lot to the SEC approving the applications that it gave this agency. Because if Grayscale had not won the case against the SEC, the SEC would probably have rejected them again in the Bitcoin spot. Right?

That's why the SEC has done nothing but approve them, or else the SEC can be sued, as far as I know, if they still reject it for sure, and Gensler will also be destroyed as an official government by the people of the US. This alone agrees with my observation of events.

Tweet from Grayscale

There are a lot of crypto assets, but only one $BTC. There are a lot of spot Bitcoin ETFs, but only one $GBTC. 

https://twitter.com/Grayscale/status/1745486230304043337?t=UYvu-14r4nVyz5gkttDs8w&s=19

Email from Grayscale:

grascale is a different model to blackrock

check for instance jp morgan broker->customer fees
and then do blackrock fee+JP morgan fee=

note the difference

It's a nice historical moment.
Grayscale will finally be converted to an ETF trading on the NYSE Arca.
Surely, a hefty 150 bps one, by far the one with the highest commissions, but surely beneficial to the holders, as the discount just narrowed to 2%.

if the latest announcement (currently down: error 404) is true
then grayscale is approved and has been accelerated to not need to wait standard 30days after notice. nor been delayed longer
meaning they can start trading ASAP

as can most the others

(at this present moment a few are still waiting for the penny to drop)

im not your daddy or mommy.. im not here to spoonfeed you.
let 2024 be the year you start DYOR

if you want tax advice go find a financial adviser

i dont want anyone dependant on me..
i just want idiots to stop acting ignorant hoping someone will spoonfeed them

instead try to do your own research. then you wont need to be corrected

i only correct things when i see ignorant people passing stupidity between each other where it then manifests into cults of stupidity