FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds - page 5.

shoreno

full member

Activity: 1750

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Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 09:14:57 PM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 18, 2020, 09:31:38 AM

Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 07:46:04 AM

Quote from: leea-1334 on November 18, 2020, 06:56:23 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 08:21:27 PM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

This is what you get when you have people just going through threads of services they have never even used themselves,,, just posting and smearing and thinking they are doing everybody favors.

@Degens BTC is able to use smart contracts just not as easily I would say as Ethereum,,, I do not know how to myself. But this is also the other problem with non BTC to me,,, gamblers are chiefly BTC betting people:)

Yes, we tend to target people that are already familiar with the ethereum ecosystem, and don't target BTC betting people as ethereum has a higher learning curve. Most people just want to bet with what they are familiar with, BTC, and not learn a new process which totally makes sense.

Give it a few years, and I suspect most bettors will be betting on non custodial smart contract platforms based on ethereum or a competing blockchain, none of which will require KYC.

are you saying BTC people are dumb? what do you mean higher learning curve

No not at all.

Using Degens has a higher learning curve for BTC dudes, as it requires learning what Metamask is/does. It requires using a DEX such as uniswap to convert ETH to DAI. It requires understanding a Betfair-like interface with back/lays bets. It requires understanding the concept of gas, and why it can be high/low at any given point.

Compare this to telling a person to send BTC to nitrogen.eu and place a bet at a familiar sportsbook interface.

So unless the user was already very familiar with the ethereum space, I'd recommend they use nitrogen or fairlay to be honest due to the high learning curve.

i didnt saw that he said dumb . higher learning curve on eth means there is more to learn on eth than on btc which is i think true , he already explain the rest of the reasons . btc was like a plug and play while in eth, theres a need to setup some settings .

setting up a metamask is mostly avilable for eth . converting eth to dai is like converting your btc to other coins . last is the gas fee for eth , we also have transaction fee on btc . pretty much they are identical to each other except from the metamask and the interface of a gambling site for eth is unusual but if we use those more often we can be faniliar on them too . most people are just foccusing on btc betting sites

Degens

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Activity: 146

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Quote from: danshan11 on November 19, 2020, 12:21:15 AM

you are beating around the bush

if I place a bet for a zillion dollars and you grade it wrong you keep my money true or false

do you not have access to grade bets on degens?

you make it sound like your funds are completely safe like the whole system is automated and coins are 100% safe without a custodian

degens staff can grade bets any way they want ( I am not saying they do it wrong or steal but the possibility is there)

using apis is what 99% of books do to grade and there are always grading errors via API, most books delay payouts and put holds to overcome this problem

If you place a bet for a zillion dollars and it is graded incorrectly, the counterparty who is not us would receive the funds.

Hence the importance of grading correctly as we have no ability to unwind positions or 'halt' someone's account, since no user even has an account on the Degens.com platform.

And yes, if the multisig $degens traders were to collude and grade incorrectly, this would cause problems the way the system is designed which you've outlined.

To prevent this, in the coming weeks a random sample of anonymous $degens tokens holders will grade each match as well as deposit a large amount of funds into an escrow. This escrow would then be used to pay off the correct participant, and the $degens holders would be monetarily penalized to minimize any incentive to so.

So naturally, bet limits would have to be put in place to match the size of the escrow. Currently the Trump market is $300K

To conclude, great points you've brought up and we will be sure to speak to them in detail as to how we will remedy them in our upcoming Medium article that is coming soon.

Thanks for the great insight!

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

you are beating around the bush

if I place a bet for a zillion dollars and you grade it wrong you keep my money true or false

do you not have access to grade bets on degens?

you make it sound like your funds are completely safe like the whole system is automated and coins are 100% safe without a custodian

degens staff can grade bets any way they want ( I am not saying they do it wrong or steal but the possibility is there)

using apis is what 99% of books do to grade and there are always grading errors via API, most books delay payouts and put holds to overcome this problem

Degens

copper member

Activity: 146

Merit: 2

Quote from: danshan11 on November 18, 2020, 09:28:52 AM

Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 02:32:08 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 12:44:00 AM

why do you call degens non custodial? what do you mean by non custodial?

The Degens Betting Exchange uses ethereum smart contracts which enables it to be non custodial.

This means at no point do users deposit money into Degens, as bets are done wallet to wallet. So if malicious management wanted to steal someone's funds, it is not possible. If government agencies wanted to seize someone's funds, it is not possible. If management gets hit by a bus and no longer is alive, the user has full custody of their funds. If the Degens.com website were to go down, the user still has full custody of their funds.

One disadvantage of using a non custodial solution is you cannot use BTC on Degens as it doesn't support smart contracts. So you need to bet in ETH or the stablecoin DAI which is a deal breaker for a lot of BTC guys.

I recall that you had tried out Degens in the past. If so, a big airdrop was given out a couple weeks ago with each coin trading at $2.20 or so. Click Degens Token on the left hand side to see how many you received. You can then sell them on the balancer pool if you'd like to get your free money.

I am confused so if I place a bet on a market and the funds are transferred for the bet and degens gets hit by a bus how would I recover those funds? Also if degens grades a market wrong which we know grading is done by degens and the funds are settled as a loser how is that non custodial?

In the event everyone gets hit by a bus, this is how you'd access your funds - https://degens.medium.com/interacting-with-a-smart-contract-when-its-dapp-is-down-fcfd63d7792f though I need to update that to reflect our change of branding from SportCrypt to Degens.

A bunch of APIs and $DEGENS token holders currently grade in a similar model to REP. We will release a document soon on how you can stake your $degens and get paid to participate in grading where you would be penalized for an incorrect grade.

If you want to sell your $DEGENS tokens that you received in the airdrop, this pool has the most liquidity - https://pools.balancer.exchange/#/pool/0x05c04d16da1a7efd6d6768a3f0e609c09f99710b/shares

Take care!

Degens

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Activity: 146

Merit: 2

Quote from: danshan11 on November 18, 2020, 09:31:38 AM

Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 07:46:04 AM

Quote from: leea-1334 on November 18, 2020, 06:56:23 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 08:21:27 PM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

This is what you get when you have people just going through threads of services they have never even used themselves,,, just posting and smearing and thinking they are doing everybody favors.

@Degens BTC is able to use smart contracts just not as easily I would say as Ethereum,,, I do not know how to myself. But this is also the other problem with non BTC to me,,, gamblers are chiefly BTC betting people:)

Yes, we tend to target people that are already familiar with the ethereum ecosystem, and don't target BTC betting people as ethereum has a higher learning curve. Most people just want to bet with what they are familiar with, BTC, and not learn a new process which totally makes sense.

Give it a few years, and I suspect most bettors will be betting on non custodial smart contract platforms based on ethereum or a competing blockchain, none of which will require KYC.

are you saying BTC people are dumb? what do you mean higher learning curve

No not at all.

Using Degens has a higher learning curve for BTC dudes, as it requires learning what Metamask is/does. It requires using a DEX such as uniswap to convert ETH to DAI. It requires understanding a Betfair-like interface with back/lays bets. It requires understanding the concept of gas, and why it can be high/low at any given point.

Compare this to telling a person to send BTC to nitrogen.eu and place a bet at a familiar sportsbook interface.

So unless the user was already very familiar with the ethereum space, I'd recommend they use nitrogen or fairlay to be honest due to the high learning curve.

beerlover

legendary

Activity: 2996

Merit: 1188

^ KYC and AML started out as something that governments used for money laundering and finding out illegal funds but that was always the face of it, not the whole part of it. There is no world where governments do not care about what you are going through, they are literally there to monitor you and that is what they were doing.

Crypto world is something we can hide ourselves and since they can't find where we are or how much we have and anything regarding our crypto finances, what they do instead is to focus their regulations into the companies we use and that way they can monitor those companies and people who use them. If you remove yourself away from every single KYC requesting company, you could actually be off the grid, if you can't do that you will have to face the fact that government monitors you.

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 07:46:04 AM

Quote from: leea-1334 on November 18, 2020, 06:56:23 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 08:21:27 PM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

This is what you get when you have people just going through threads of services they have never even used themselves,,, just posting and smearing and thinking they are doing everybody favors.

@Degens BTC is able to use smart contracts just not as easily I would say as Ethereum,,, I do not know how to myself. But this is also the other problem with non BTC to me,,, gamblers are chiefly BTC betting people:)

Yes, we tend to target people that are already familiar with the ethereum ecosystem, and don't target BTC betting people as ethereum has a higher learning curve. Most people just want to bet with what they are familiar with, BTC, and not learn a new process which totally makes sense.

Give it a few years, and I suspect most bettors will be betting on non custodial smart contract platforms based on ethereum or a competing blockchain, none of which will require KYC.

are you saying BTC people are dumb? what do you mean higher learning curve

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

Quote from: Degens on November 18, 2020, 02:32:08 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 12:44:00 AM

why do you call degens non custodial? what do you mean by non custodial?

The Degens Betting Exchange uses ethereum smart contracts which enables it to be non custodial.

This means at no point do users deposit money into Degens, as bets are done wallet to wallet. So if malicious management wanted to steal someone's funds, it is not possible. If government agencies wanted to seize someone's funds, it is not possible. If management gets hit by a bus and no longer is alive, the user has full custody of their funds. If the Degens.com website were to go down, the user still has full custody of their funds.

One disadvantage of using a non custodial solution is you cannot use BTC on Degens as it doesn't support smart contracts. So you need to bet in ETH or the stablecoin DAI which is a deal breaker for a lot of BTC guys.

I recall that you had tried out Degens in the past. If so, a big airdrop was given out a couple weeks ago with each coin trading at $2.20 or so. Click Degens Token on the left hand side to see how many you received. You can then sell them on the balancer pool if you'd like to get your free money.

I am confused so if I place a bet on a market and the funds are transferred for the bet and degens gets hit by a bus how would I recover those funds? Also if degens grades a market wrong which we know grading is done by degens and the funds are settled as a loser how is that non custodial?

Degens

copper member

Activity: 146

Merit: 2

Quote from: leea-1334 on November 18, 2020, 06:56:23 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 08:21:27 PM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

This is what you get when you have people just going through threads of services they have never even used themselves,,, just posting and smearing and thinking they are doing everybody favors.

@Degens BTC is able to use smart contracts just not as easily I would say as Ethereum,,, I do not know how to myself. But this is also the other problem with non BTC to me,,, gamblers are chiefly BTC betting people:)

Yes, we tend to target people that are already familiar with the ethereum ecosystem, and don't target BTC betting people as ethereum has a higher learning curve. Most people just want to bet with what they are familiar with, BTC, and not learn a new process which totally makes sense.

Give it a few years, and I suspect most bettors will be betting on non custodial smart contract platforms based on ethereum or a competing blockchain, none of which will require KYC.

leea-1334

hero member

Activity: 2296

Merit: 953

Temporary forum vacation

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 08:21:27 PM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

This is what you get when you have people just going through threads of services they have never even used themselves,,, just posting and smearing and thinking they are doing everybody favors.

@Degens BTC is able to use smart contracts just not as easily I would say as Ethereum,,, I do not know how to myself. But this is also the other problem with non BTC to me,,, gamblers are chiefly BTC betting people:)

Degens

copper member

Activity: 146

Merit: 2

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 12:44:00 AM

why do you call degens non custodial? what do you mean by non custodial?

The Degens Betting Exchange uses ethereum smart contracts which enables it to be non custodial.

This means at no point do users deposit money into Degens, as bets are done wallet to wallet. So if malicious management wanted to steal someone's funds, it is not possible. If government agencies wanted to seize someone's funds, it is not possible. If management gets hit by a bus and no longer is alive, the user has full custody of their funds. If the Degens.com website were to go down, the user still has full custody of their funds.

One disadvantage of using a non custodial solution is you cannot use BTC on Degens as it doesn't support smart contracts. So you need to bet in ETH or the stablecoin DAI which is a deal breaker for a lot of BTC guys.

I recall that you had tried out Degens in the past. If so, a big airdrop was given out a couple weeks ago with each coin trading at $2.20 or so. Click Degens Token on the left hand side to see how many you received. You can then sell them on the balancer pool if you'd like to get your free money.

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

Quote from: nrd525 on November 17, 2020, 06:49:19 PM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 12:46:05 AM

Quote from: nrd525 on November 17, 2020, 12:11:13 AM

Oops I mean legalize and regulate. You are totally right in that deregulation is very unlikely. For starters, there is the historical money laundering problem so AML/KYC is pretty important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-court-sports-betting-new-jersey.html

AML KYC are really important for the government or books with no common sense

if you cant tell someone is using your service to steal lie or cheat you probably need to get out of ANY business

It has nothing to do with stealing or lying (at least from the casino's point of view), and everything to do with money laundering to avoid taxes or to turn illegal funds into more legitimate looking ones.

...

In other news, did Fairlay decide to only settle some of their presidential markets because they wanted to limit their risk on the off chance (I'd say 0.1%) that Biden does not win?

Anyways this is fairly strange. I wish they had a Twitter account or used the blog to post about decisions like this.
It looks like Fairlay ignores this discussion thread for the most part too.

https://twitter.com/FairlayPM

I think tons of people get fairlay confused, fairlay is not a sportsbook, fairlay is a peer to peer exchange

nrd525

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Activity: 1868

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Quote from: danshan11 on November 17, 2020, 12:46:05 AM

Quote from: nrd525 on November 17, 2020, 12:11:13 AM

Oops I mean legalize and regulate. You are totally right in that deregulation is very unlikely. For starters, there is the historical money laundering problem so AML/KYC is pretty important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-court-sports-betting-new-jersey.html

AML KYC are really important for the government or books with no common sense

if you cant tell someone is using your service to steal lie or cheat you probably need to get out of ANY business

It has nothing to do with stealing or lying (at least from the casino's point of view), and everything to do with money laundering to avoid taxes or to turn illegal funds into more legitimate looking ones.

...

In other news, did Fairlay decide to only settle some of their presidential markets because they wanted to limit their risk on the off chance (I'd say 0.1%) that Biden does not win?

Anyways this is fairly strange. I wish they had a Twitter account or used the blog to post about decisions like this.
It looks like Fairlay ignores this discussion thread for the most part too.

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

Quote from: Pmalek on November 17, 2020, 04:12:50 AM

Quote from: danshan11 on November 16, 2020, 12:01:29 PM

have you ever read or heard one complaint in the 10 years of fairlay of them holding a users funds for geo location?

I have not claimed that Fairlay does or has in the past held user funds, have I? I gave you an example of what has happened in the past on certain platforms. Whether or not Fairlay has done similar things, I don't know, nor is that the point of discussion.

your point I feel is useless and trying to smear a platform for no reason is useless. I would ask fairlay themselves what is their policy

leea-1334

hero member

Activity: 2296

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Temporary forum vacation

Sites have rules, and they have put it there so people can read them and agree,,, if they do not like it, they leave. Sites can choose to enforce, but then you go down a whole different route of enforcement and have to start implementing blocks to prevent people who want to cheat the system, which not everyone would like. I agree like danshan said, if sites do not know how to detect that, they need to stop any business.

Fairlay is OK for me,,, personally feel no need to change anything.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: danshan11 on November 16, 2020, 12:01:29 PM

have you ever read or heard one complaint in the 10 years of fairlay of them holding a users funds for geo location?

I have not claimed that Fairlay does or has in the past held user funds, have I? I gave you an example of what has happened in the past on certain platforms. Whether or not Fairlay has done similar things, I don't know, nor is that the point of discussion.

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

Quote from: nrd525 on November 17, 2020, 12:11:13 AM

Oops I mean legalize and regulate. You are totally right in that deregulation is very unlikely. For starters, there is the historical money laundering problem so AML/KYC is pretty important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-court-sports-betting-new-jersey.html

AML KYC are really important for the government or books with no common sense

if you cant tell someone is using your service to steal lie or cheat you probably need to get out of ANY business

danshan11

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 42

why do you call degens non custodial? what do you mean by non custodial?

Degens

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Quote from: nrd525 on November 16, 2020, 05:18:28 PM

It's interesting that you can bet on Polymarket (US based and No IP blocks) and probably several other sites. Somebody thinks it is ok, as they funded Polymarket with $4 million.

Hopefully the US is set to deregulate gambling. I know some states are working out the details after the Supreme Court said it was ok.

Polymarket and Degens are both smart contract based betting platforms. It isn't possible to block IPs as you can just interact directly with the smart contract which lives on the blockchain.

Poly's legal stance is more aggressive though as they tout they are US based though.

nrd525

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Activity: 1868

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Oops I mean legalize and regulate. You are totally right in that deregulation is very unlikely. For starters, there is the historical money laundering problem so AML/KYC is pretty important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/us/politics/supreme-court-sports-betting-new-jersey.html

Topic: FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds - page 5. (Read 135445 times)