FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds - page 91.

fairlay

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Quote from: ryhel on July 18, 2015, 07:10:32 PM

Quote from: fairlay on July 18, 2015, 06:23:06 PM

...
Also: registered user currently do not pay ANY transaction fees.
...
And again - you can even waive this fee if you use an account (also we might soon start to take there a tx. fee as well).

yes but I need to wait a few hours for BTC once I click cashout. Without account I can spend my BTC within 30 minutes after resolution date, so I will stay with anonymous prediction.

There is in principal no different between the speed of a cashout request of a user and a automated cashout request from a winning anonymous bet. The are both handled equally. But of course we let the user decide - we just offer both options. Even the opposite - we think we should make our none account betting more popular. All the user of direct bet always say they love this feature but it seems they are not aware that they could have the same on fairlay with way better odds.

ryhel

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Quote from: fairlay on July 18, 2015, 06:23:06 PM

...
Also: registered user currently do not pay ANY transaction fees.
...
And again - you can even waive this fee if you use an account (also we might soon start to take there a tx. fee as well).

yes but I need to wait a few hours for BTC once I click cashout. Without account I can spend my BTC within 30 minutes after resolution date, so I will stay with anonymous prediction.

fairlay

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Activity: 443

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But you are right - it is unlikely (not impossible) that the floating fee will be 0.5mBTC or higher. However, a fixed small fee for the cashout is still very different from the 2% we take on none sport/fun events. A 1000mBTC bet with odds of 2 would pay 20mbTC in addition to the 0.4mBTC for the transaction. Famous betting exchanges like betfair.com event take 4%-10%. So we truly believe that the 0% are extraordinary and it is fair to call it 0% even if you pay a tiny fixed additional transaction fee in most cases. And again - you can even waive this fee if you use an account (also we might soon start to take there a tx. fee as well).

fairlay

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Quote from: ryhel on July 18, 2015, 05:48:15 PM

#1
Maybe enable stats for anonymous users?

example:
https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/your_cashout_address/
https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/your_cashout_address/?category=

without showing them there ("Public profiles") -> https://www.fairlay.com/highscore/

I mean:...only who knows own cashout address, will be able to check stats.

#2

Good idea - we will do it.

Quote from: FairlaySupport on July 17, 2015, 08:12:05 PM

...we like to point out, that we currently offer 0% fees in the whole sport & fun section. We will add these infos to the website soon.

I analyzed some addresses and transactions...

0% fee - it is not true. Let's take some bet for example (tennis bets on Fairlay - Winnings: 1 BTC):

https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/13aHxeXx8M8YqbeshqYPzdquuDnKj9n57y/
mBTC accepted: 200
odds: 1.251
cashout: 249.73
Transaction fee: 0.5 mBTC

https://blockchain.info/tx/489efb1e1f1b182d19cafac6d8506b03dc1aa49098bffda4fa9065c0a2bf9edb
Fee: 0.1 mBTC

so you take 0.4 mBTC every cashout to yourself

sometimes you take 0.5 mBTC, example:
https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/1UZVZeu2ygCxzsEmzbWYAaJB8ecjNdtCJ/
mBTC accepted: 1,000.00
odds: 1.143

Quote from: FairlaySupport on June 30, 2015, 12:00:53 PM

If you put 0.1mBTC as a fee the transaction will usually be in the next block.

We both know that 0.1 mBTC and 0.5 mBTC is the same speed (usually be in the next block). You wrote 0.5 mBTC per transaction only because you want take 0.4 to your pocket and now you tell people that there is 0% fee on sports.

https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/19BkX2C9AWKjrdLvy7pQeMmDYM69PDghtt/
https://blockchain.info/tx/155763445e2e48c69ee64c85f15f6f453792849a5d5ffe061d42c9a633ebcf8e

300.00 * 1.383 - 0.1(fee) = 414.80 not 414.40

conclusion: there is no 0% fees in the whole sport & fun section because there is hidden extra charge (0.4 mBTC fee on every cashout) which does not mention anywhere. If you have 10000 cashouts per month you take 4BTC to yourself (transparently). Better to tell people the truth that there are additional charges than pull the wool over their eyes that there is no fees at all.

Well - indeed we take a 0.5mBTC flat fee for transactions for the anonymous bets - but we DO mention it. The reasons we take a flat 0.5mBTC is because we can't know in advance how big the fee will be with floating transactions fees. So we decided the best way would be to set it a little bit higher. Also: registered user currently do not pay ANY transaction fees.

Regarding the cashout speed: We aim to be back to instant (less than 5min) as it used to be in the past month. Together with the latest "stress-test" of the Bitcoin network we are currently changing the cash out process to floating transaction fees and a better check for double spendings. So currently we have to do most transactions manually and this takes obviously more time.

ryhel

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Activity: 74

Merit: 10

#1
Maybe enable stats for anonymous users?

example:
https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/your_cashout_address/
https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/your_cashout_address/?category=

without showing them there ("Public profiles") -> https://www.fairlay.com/highscore/

I mean:...only who knows own cashout address, will be able to check stats.

#2

Quote from: FairlaySupport on July 17, 2015, 08:12:05 PM

...we like to point out, that we currently offer 0% fees in the whole sport & fun section. We will add these infos to the website soon.

I analyzed some addresses and transactions...

0% fee - it is not true. Let's take some bet for example (tennis bets on Fairlay - Winnings: 1 BTC):

https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/13aHxeXx8M8YqbeshqYPzdquuDnKj9n57y/
mBTC accepted: 200
odds: 1.251
cashout: 249.73
Transaction fee: 0.5 mBTC

https://blockchain.info/tx/489efb1e1f1b182d19cafac6d8506b03dc1aa49098bffda4fa9065c0a2bf9edb
Fee: 0.1 mBTC

so you take 0.4 mBTC every cashout to yourself

sometimes you take 0.5 mBTC, example:
https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/1UZVZeu2ygCxzsEmzbWYAaJB8ecjNdtCJ/
mBTC accepted: 1,000.00
odds: 1.143

Quote from: FairlaySupport on June 30, 2015, 12:00:53 PM

If you put 0.1mBTC as a fee the transaction will usually be in the next block.

We both know that 0.1 mBTC and 0.5 mBTC is the same speed (usually be in the next block). You wrote 0.5 mBTC per transaction only because you want take 0.4 to your pocket and now you tell people that there is 0% fee on sports.

https://www.fairlay.com/anonymous/19BkX2C9AWKjrdLvy7pQeMmDYM69PDghtt/
https://blockchain.info/tx/155763445e2e48c69ee64c85f15f6f453792849a5d5ffe061d42c9a633ebcf8e

300.00 * 1.383 - 0.1(fee) = 414.80 not 414.40

conclusion: there is no 0% fees in the whole sport & fun section because there is hidden extra charge (0.4 mBTC fee on every cashout) which does not mention anywhere. If you have 10000 cashouts per month you take 4BTC to yourself (transparently). Better to tell people the truth that there are additional charges than pull the wool over their eyes that there is no fees at all.

FairlaySupport

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Thanks! We constantly try to make the site better. As we added new categories recently, we like to point out, that we currently offer 0% fees in the whole sport & fun section. We will add these infos to the website soon.

ryhel

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wow, improved search engine. now I can bet without headache, thanks

fairlay

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Have a look at some public profiles: https://www.fairlay.com/highscore/

Congrats @ctlaltdefeat you seems to be a eSport expert: https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/ctlaltdefeat/?category=esports

fairlay

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We have a new feature: are you curious what your total winnings/losses on Fairlay are? Go to:

https://www.fairlay.com/user/public/YOUR_USER_NAME

and check. If you like what you see you can also decide to make this public so that everyone can see your bets and winnings.

fairlay

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Quote from: ryhel on July 15, 2015, 06:52:30 AM

ok, gonna have to live with it.

next, cosmetic thing

Haha - thanks! This was the most clear "improvement suggestion" I have seen so far. We will care for it soon.

Another short notice: We really would like to accept 0 conf transactions and we know that other sport bet sites do this. However - it is to easy to double spend a 0 conf transaction.
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00500.html

So we really thing sooner or later someone will attack sportbet sites with 0 confs. There might be some payment channel solutions that will allow 0 confs in the future - and than we will of course allow it but for now it is our prediction that the other sport bet sites will get into trouble with 0 confs and disable them soon.

ryhel

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ok, gonna have to live with it.

next, cosmetic thing

FairlaySupport

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ryhel - thx for your input. However, we cannot resolve those markets early.

"If a tennis match is not completed because of a player retirement or disqualification, all Set betting wagers will be considered void."

ryhel

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Would be great if cashouts were faster. I mean...

example1:

Match: Wawrinka S. - Gasquet R.
Bet..: Gasquet R. (+2.5 Sets)
http://www.livescore.in/match/QBJHNnZs/#match-summary

1st set won Gasquet, so my bet won. I don't need to wait x hours to finish. I should get money after 1st set. If I have to wait 3 or 4 hours to get the money...little waste of time. Other books give money after 1st set.

example2:

Match: Haas T. - Mannarino A.
Bet: Haas T. (+1.5 Sets)
http://www.livescore.in/match/ddTgefVG/#match-summary

or

Match: Kucova K. - Pereira T.
Bet: Kucova K. (+1.5 Sets)
http://www.livescore.in/match/UHZWexpe/#match-summary

The same situation as in the first example, but here I have to wait one day to get the money. By rains and shift meetings at the next day. Here bets already won the previous day. Nothing can happen.

fairlay

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What markets do you mean? On the sport markets we regularly have up to 60BTC per bet. In some cases up to 100BTC. The are the highest limits you will find within Bitcoin.

On the none sport markets you are right: here is the liquidity very low. We are currently implementing market maker strategies and we are in exchange with several potential marker makers. You can be assured that the liquidity for political predictions (like next president) will soon be as high as the sport events. For predictions like: will the Bitcoin block size increase it might be more difficult. To attract market maker it would help if user would signal demand for higher liquidity.

newb4now

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what are your plans to add more liquidity to your site? It seems like most markets have very little interest right now

I love the exchange concept but you need lots of users to build critical mass

klm bitcoin

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nice ,I was messing around on the site with some small bets today

FairlaySupport

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everything back to normal. Thanks for the constant help @ryhel. If you send me a PM with your username we will credit you some mBTC.

FairlaySupport

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Thanks for letting us know. We have some technical difficulties right now. We will fix them asap.

ryhel

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FairlaySupport

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Unfortunately, The Tour de France went under our radar. We will try to add Cycling asap.

Topic: FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds - page 91. (Read 135445 times)