FIFA World Cup 2026 :Canada/Mexico/United States: Discussion Thread - page 22.

Pandu Geddon

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Quote from: Jody.Drummer on November 29, 2024, 10:36:22 AM

Quote from: nullama on November 28, 2024, 09:29:39 PM

That 2002 World Cup was also the first one being done in more than a single country.

I think moving forward we will never again see the world cup hosted in a single country, it is getting too big for a single host.

Not sure how that will end up being, next one will be the first one with the new format, we'll see how it goes.

I don't think it will be much different from the new format that we now see in the Champions League and Europa League. Basically everything is the same, but now there are more countries participating than usual. I don't know if this will be an advantage or a disadvantage, because the chances of countries that are difficult to get through to the World Cup are now greater and that could be something that makes the competition less competitive because there are countries that are entering the World Cup for the first time, for example, and other things.

The ones who will benefit are the countries as organizers, because with more participants, more tourists will visit them to join in the excitement of the World Cup.
While for the teams from the competing countries, of course, the additional quota given will help the competing teams quite a bit. I remain convinced that only the strong teams from each federation will qualify. Regardless of whether they can compete with the teams from the favored countries, we will see their preparations.

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Quote from: nullama on November 28, 2024, 09:29:39 PM

That 2002 World Cup was also the first one being done in more than a single country.

I think moving forward we will never again see the world cup hosted in a single country, it is getting too big for a single host.

Not sure how that will end up being, next one will be the first one with the new format, we'll see how it goes.

I don't think it will be much different from the new format that we now see in the Champions League and Europa League. Basically everything is the same, but now there are more countries participating than usual. I don't know if this will be an advantage or a disadvantage, because the chances of countries that are difficult to get through to the World Cup are now greater and that could be something that makes the competition less competitive because there are countries that are entering the World Cup for the first time, for example, and other things.

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Quote from: mammusu on November 28, 2024, 09:15:44 PM

~snip~
The World Cup in 2002 then became the starting point of Japan's revival in football, previously we only saw the Asian team only being a complement in the World Cup, but what Korea and Japan are doing today is indeed very extraordinary and makes them the strong team in Asia, the development of young talent and the availability of adequate infrastructure are of course the main reason they can be as they are today, we can see a lot of their players playing in European club clubs and this shows that Japan and korean has managed to create an extraordinary squad, if we talk about world cup 2026, I think so far maybe only Japan and Korea are asian countries whose football strength is starting to be on par with European teams today.

That 2002 World Cup was also the first one being done in more than a single country.

I think moving forward we will never again see the world cup hosted in a single country, it is getting too big for a single host.

Not sure how that will end up being, next one will be the first one with the new format, we'll see how it goes.

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Quote from: Publictalk792 on November 28, 2024, 08:52:48 PM

Quote from: Leviathan.007 on November 28, 2024, 05:29:47 PM

One good thing about Japan is they care about the younger player and they try to use the younger talents they have to develop their team. Japan is a team in Asia and there you cannot find many strong teams. Usually, the team in Asia fails to even have good performance in the World Cup and that's why we cannot expect to see good performance from these Asian teams in the 2026 World Cup too.
But it seems Japan is trying to act better than this and after a few years when their younger players get more experienced, we can hope to see Japan perform well in the World Cups.

Yes that is right Japan approach to building their team. They are helping young players get better which is good for future. It is true that teams from Asia usually do not do well in World Cup but Japan is trying to change that by focusing on young players. As you said it might take few years for these young players to get more experience but they have a lot of potential. If Japan keeps helping their young players they could become strong team in international football. It will be exciting to see how they do and if they can make big impact in 2026 World Cup and after that.

The World Cup in 2002 then became the starting point of Japan's revival in football, previously we only saw the Asian team only being a complement in the World Cup, but what Korea and Japan are doing today is indeed very extraordinary and makes them the strong team in Asia, the development of young talent and the availability of adequate infrastructure are of course the main reason they can be as they are today, we can see a lot of their players playing in European club clubs and this shows that Japan and korean has managed to create an extraordinary squad, if we talk about world cup 2026, I think so far maybe only Japan and Korea are asian countries whose football strength is starting to be on par with European teams today.

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Quote from: Leviathan.007 on November 28, 2024, 05:29:47 PM

One good thing about Japan is they care about the younger player and they try to use the younger talents they have to develop their team. Japan is a team in Asia and there you cannot find many strong teams. Usually, the team in Asia fails to even have good performance in the World Cup and that's why we cannot expect to see good performance from these Asian teams in the 2026 World Cup too.
But it seems Japan is trying to act better than this and after a few years when their younger players get more experienced, we can hope to see Japan perform well in the World Cups.

Yes that is right Japan approach to building their team. They are helping young players get better which is good for future. It is true that teams from Asia usually do not do well in World Cup but Japan is trying to change that by focusing on young players. As you said it might take few years for these young players to get more experience but they have a lot of potential. If Japan keeps helping their young players they could become strong team in international football. It will be exciting to see how they do and if they can make big impact in 2026 World Cup and after that.

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Quote from: Hirose UK on November 28, 2024, 12:41:56 AM

Quote from: mammusu on November 25, 2024, 02:43:40 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on November 25, 2024, 01:46:00 AM

There are still 4 match and of course every team that previously made mistakes can definitely learn to perform better and not repeat all their mistakes again, from the remaining match it will make them more enthusiastic to be able to add as many points as possible.
Indonesia will still face Australia, Bahrain, China and Japan but only 3 match still allow Indonesia to have the opportunity to add points because of the four team, only Japan is the most difficult to beat.
I sure Indonesia can still occupy second place later.

Just like you think, of course against Japan is a difficult match for Indonesia to win in the second leg later, but Indonesia must at least be able to appear solid, disciplined and maximum in the match to at least be able to get one point, they must learn from the defeat they got from Japan in the previous match where Indonesia must be able to minimize the slightest mistake in the next match, Against Bahrain and China, I think it is their chance to win 3 points if we look at their actual performance better than Bahrain and China although in the first leg they failed to get full points over that the two teams, while the match that I think will be very balanced will of course when face Australia later, although Australia current ranking is higher than Indonesia, but I think they will still be able to keep up with the fast game and long passes from Australia later.

For the match against Japan in the last meeting, it seems that getting 1 point with draw will also be difficult unless Japan deliberately lets all that happen, just look at the previous match which took place at the GBK stadium showing Indonesia lost 0 - 4 to Japan and in the upcoming match Indonesia plays away so it is clear that there will be no chance for them to match Japan.
There is nothing to hope for when their opponent is Japan, this are not China or Bahrain who can be defeated by Indonesia, but we will see what the results will be like because there is of several months for them to prepare.

One good thing about Japan is they care about the younger player and they try to use the younger talents they have to develop their team. Japan is a team in Asia and there you cannot find many strong teams. Usually, the team in Asia fails to even have good performance in the World Cup and that's why we cannot expect to see good performance from these Asian teams in the 2026 World Cup too.
But it seems Japan is trying to act better than this and after a few years when their younger players get more experienced, we can hope to see Japan perform well in the World Cups.

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Quote from: Lidger on November 26, 2024, 08:29:24 PM

The 2026 World Cup has created a good opportunity for new teams. Teams that didn't come very close to qualifying for the main stage in every World Cup tournament have a chance to play in the main stage in this World Cup. However, there are still some doubts about whether they can qualify for the main stage of the World Cup. Australia is trying although there is no guarantee yet that Australia will qualify for the main stage of the World Cup. However, some other countries including Iran, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan have a good chance of qualifying for the main stage of the 2026 World Cup. We will see more competition in the 2026 World Cup than what we saw in the 2022 World Cup and undoubtedly the 2026 World Cup will be remembered for a long time.

Yeah I agree, the more teams we put into world cup, the more fun we are going to have and the more people who will watch it. Obviously the whole world watches it, it's one of the most aired thing in the world, but lately we are seeing a drop with Z generation, with all the reels and tiktoks and what not, their attention span isn't ready for 2+ hour match and consider that as "fun" anymore, we the older generation end up liking it, because when we were kids it was the most fun thing we could do for free, it's on tv, it doesn't cost a dime, and you watch the superstars from all around the world.

Let's see the new generation join by making them interested once more, and the best way to do that would be putting them in the world cup, if your team is not at the world cup then watching it is a bit less fun, but if they are in it, then you are going to watch it and have more fun because you are not watching two different nations, you are watching your own nation, and of course if your nation is in there, then you watch other games too.

So a way to make sure newer generations participate into this, adding more countries is a good way, in fact, we should include even more, 48 teams isn't that impossible and 64 would make even more sense.

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Quote from: mammusu on November 25, 2024, 02:43:40 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on November 25, 2024, 01:46:00 AM

There are still 4 match and of course every team that previously made mistakes can definitely learn to perform better and not repeat all their mistakes again, from the remaining match it will make them more enthusiastic to be able to add as many points as possible.
Indonesia will still face Australia, Bahrain, China and Japan but only 3 match still allow Indonesia to have the opportunity to add points because of the four team, only Japan is the most difficult to beat.
I sure Indonesia can still occupy second place later.

Just like you think, of course against Japan is a difficult match for Indonesia to win in the second leg later, but Indonesia must at least be able to appear solid, disciplined and maximum in the match to at least be able to get one point, they must learn from the defeat they got from Japan in the previous match where Indonesia must be able to minimize the slightest mistake in the next match, Against Bahrain and China, I think it is their chance to win 3 points if we look at their actual performance better than Bahrain and China although in the first leg they failed to get full points over that the two teams, while the match that I think will be very balanced will of course when face Australia later, although Australia current ranking is higher than Indonesia, but I think they will still be able to keep up with the fast game and long passes from Australia later.

For the match against Japan in the last meeting, it seems that getting 1 point with draw will also be difficult unless Japan deliberately lets all that happen, just look at the previous match which took place at the GBK stadium showing Indonesia lost 0 - 4 to Japan and in the upcoming match Indonesia plays away so it is clear that there will be no chance for them to match Japan.
There is nothing to hope for when their opponent is Japan, this are not China or Bahrain who can be defeated by Indonesia, but we will see what the results will be like because there is of several months for them to prepare.

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Quote from: bitgolden on November 27, 2024, 04:25:30 PM

It doesn't really matter when you lose, if you lose at qualifiers and then not go to world cup, that's bad and sad of course, but if you go to group stages and lose all three games (I think that's changing, but basically doing zero points is what I mean) then you are not going to get anything out of this neither, so why matters if you "go to world cup" if all you do is lose all the games?

I rather not go there at all if that's going to be the result, I rather win some games, if possible get out of the group stages, or get at least 2 or 3 points at group stages. With more and more teams joining, I bet you that there will be more teams with zero points now, and that makes no sense to me, those teams obviously don't deserve to be there.

Going to the World Cup is a great honor. There are many countries in the world that just want to qualify for the competition and don't care if they lose all their games. They just want to be mentioned in the list of countries that have played in the world Cup. Look at this articles and your will understand my views; Which countries have never qualified for World Cup? List of national teams that have always missed men's FIFA tournament

It is indeed sad to play in the World Cup without getting a point and other countries have even played all the group games without scoring a goal. But these nations didn't expect that to happen because they also prepared for the competition. For me, it is better to qualifier for the game and not win a match. This is because qualification will increase FIFA's rating and expose the players to international football.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on November 27, 2024, 07:58:43 AM

Quote from: shogun47 on November 26, 2024, 07:32:56 PM

does it matter whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina? From what I understand, this is structured purely based on the timing of the match taking place. It seems to be irrelevant whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina if the match is scheduled "outside of International Match Calendar windows".

It does matter.
The strength of opponents is always taken into the account (whether it's a world cup match or a friendly match outside of international match calendar windows).
Take note that playing against Argentina gives smaller W_e than playing against Iran and that makes the P bigger.

Ok yes I went over the doc too quickly and missed that part. I have to say they put quite some thought into that! Cheesy

Maybe it is of interest for others to get an idea what this whole ranking looks like, good you shared it as I never came across it although it is in effect since 2018 and I think has undergone minor revisions since.

I think this formula is quite good at capturing the relative strength over time between teams globally, but then my post here is still kind of interesting because who would have thought that despite all these weightings in the formula, Iran is so close to Switzerland and USA and are ahead of Austria? Although there is this formula now, I feel the urge to do the maths, but I am too lazy to go for it I guess. Grin

The ranking still seems off to me.

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It doesn't really matter when you lose, if you lose at qualifiers and then not go to world cup, that's bad and sad of course, but if you go to group stages and lose all three games (I think that's changing, but basically doing zero points is what I mean) then you are not going to get anything out of this neither, so why matters if you "go to world cup" if all you do is lose all the games?

I rather not go there at all if that's going to be the result, I rather win some games, if possible get out of the group stages, or get at least 2 or 3 points at group stages. With more and more teams joining, I bet you that there will be more teams with zero points now, and that makes no sense to me, those teams obviously don't deserve to be there.

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Quote from: Dump3er on November 17, 2024, 02:47:02 PM

This discussion is and has always been kind of pointless. If someone today claims that Pele and Maradona were better than Messi, then this means that they think if Messi would have played against Maradona in the past, Maradona would have had more impact on the outcome of the game than Messi. Seriously I don't that is correct. Messi has decided so many games and the claim that he was fed by all his amazing midfielders is true, but only to a certain degree. Compare the one man show goals and games from Maradona and Messi. Messi has scored so many goals without needing a single midfielder to pass the ball to him. He took it and he crossed the entire pitch and scored. That is insane and just look up how many goals he scored that were deciders.

Maradona was amazing, too. There is no doubt about that, but I think most people would agree that watching Messi sometimes felt like you are watching an alien play football. It was out of this world to see how smart, how quick, how agile, how versatile, how deadly he was. Free kicks, solo dribblings, shots from outside the box, everything.

We should always bring examples of legends like these, of course, they are fucking comparisons to show that in each era there have been many stars who have determined the rhythm and history of football, the only black mark on Maradona was drugs, otherwise he would have been the best in history, but I won't say that he is the best in history to a son of mine who, when I investigate him, tells me that his greatest influence was drugs, it sounds harsh but it is the truth, it was not like that with Pele, but that was in those times.

For many, Messi is the best, but for me he is not. He had a lot of help and still has it from FIFA. I am proud of him because he is a South American player, but even so, I prefer CR7, who trains harder every day and strengthens his talent in that way, competing with the youngest players, giving his stature and even being better than them in many aspects. For me, he is an example, of course, that is my very personal opinion.

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Quote from: shogun47 on November 26, 2024, 07:32:56 PM

does it matter whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina? From what I understand, this is structured purely based on the timing of the match taking place. It seems to be irrelevant whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina if the match is scheduled "outside of International Match Calendar windows".

It does matter.
The strength of opponents is always taken into the account (whether it's a world cup match or a friendly match outside of international match calendar windows).
Take note that playing against Argentina gives smaller W_e than playing against Iran and that makes the P bigger.

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Quote from: Arenga pinnata on November 24, 2024, 11:53:06 PM

Quote from: shogun47 on November 24, 2024, 06:54:03 PM

There have been a couple of results by teams like Iran that came out of nowhere. Just remember the win that Saudi Arabia achieved against Argentina in the last World Cup, that was impressive and the smaller nations haven't been that far behind for quite a while now. They would still need some luck in games like that, but still they should be taken more seriously than maybe 20 years ago as they have all invested some resources into building better teams.

I think a lot will change when the 2026 World Cup starts. because I feel that teams like Iran, Japan and South Korea are currently developing and trying to continue to grow their quality. And so do the other teams. And because the 2026 World Cup will be very different from the 2022 World Cup. Because in the 2026 World Cup there will be 48 teams competing. And reportedly there will be 12 groups in the group stage. All of this will make all possibilities more difficult for us to guess. Even teams that are not seeded could bring big surprises at the 2026 World Cup. And I feel that there is greater enthusiasm from all the prospective participants for the 2026 World Cup. So it is not surprising that almost all national teams are currently investing more resources to build a better squad to be able to qualify for the World Cup.

The 2026 World Cup has created a good opportunity for new teams. Teams that didn't come very close to qualifying for the main stage in every World Cup tournament have a chance to play in the main stage in this World Cup. However, there are still some doubts about whether they can qualify for the main stage of the World Cup. Australia is trying although there is no guarantee yet that Australia will qualify for the main stage of the World Cup. However, some other countries including Iran, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan have a good chance of qualifying for the main stage of the 2026 World Cup. We will see more competition in the 2026 World Cup than what we saw in the 2022 World Cup and undoubtedly the 2026 World Cup will be remembered for a long time.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on November 26, 2024, 06:03:05 PM

Quote from: shogun47 on November 26, 2024, 01:44:14 PM

then you can see that Iran is 19th and then countries like Denmark, South Korea and also Austria are behind them. How do these coefficients work? Do they get the same number of points when a game takes place Iran vs. Iraq like when Argentina plays against Brazil? Or do placements in the World Cup count more?

The points obtained for every win (or draw) depends on importance of the match and the relative strength of the opponents. It's not that teams win (or lose) same points for every win (or loss).

The more important the match is, the more effective it is. For example, a match which is played in the world cup has much more effect than a friendly match.
The more strong the opponent is, the more points the team would get for a win and the less points the team would lose for a loss.

Click here, for more information on how FIFA world ranking works and how the points are calculated.

Ok this is a super detailed outline of how the weighting works, but what I didn't find while quickly going over it is whether it makes a difference when in a friendly match

"played outside of International Match Calendar windows" as it says in the paper, does it matter whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina? From what I understand, this is structured purely based on the timing of the match taking place. It seems to be irrelevant whether a team plays against Iran or Argentina if the match is scheduled "outside of International Match Calendar windows".

When it is group stage at the World Cup, I think Saudi Arabia played against Argentina, Mexico and Poland, but if they had won all three games, the points per game would have been the same no matter whether Argentina is higher ranked than Poland.

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Quote from: Leviathan.007 on November 26, 2024, 05:18:32 PM

Quote from: baeva on November 25, 2024, 02:20:15 PM

Quote from: Pandu Geddon on November 25, 2024, 11:03:58 AM

Quote from: Jody.Drummer on November 25, 2024, 10:14:49 AM

Other countries are the same, for example Australia who lost in their first match, even though on paper they were highly favored. From the statistics, they have only won once, while the other 4 ended in a draw. This group is full of surprises and I think Indonesia is also lucky, because when they need another match to end in a draw, it always happens. For example, in the match between Bahrain vs Australia, the match ended in a draw and that was beneficial for Indonesia. Even China has won 2 even though the other 4 matches ended in defeat.

You are right, and the results of the current 6 matches will make the remaining matches very interesting and difficult to predict. The favorite team can get results beyond predictions. We may be able to choose our favorite team, but this group has a tight competition.
All teams still have a chance for 2nd position. It depends on their readiness next year to determine whether they will qualify for the World Cup directly or continue to the next round to continue the competition for tickets.

The next matches will be only in spring, I think if the teams have a desire, they will be well prepared during the preparation of national teams outside the club championships, but I think not every team has a chance to reach the next stage, Bahrain does not look a strong team and is likely to remain at the bottom of the table, but in general the whole group is like this with the exception of Japan, so anything can happen.

We can't expect to see the same good performances from Indonesia at all. Indonesia is not a bad team but don't forget that they even lost the game against China while China did not have a good performance since they wasted working with their new coach.
However regardless of the result, Indonesia can get into the next games, we can't expect to see miracles from this team and I don't think if they can ever have the chance to be in the 2026 World Cup at all.

Which I can't completely grasp because these countries have so many people to choose from, but all countries have their specialties. It is the same in basketball when the USA is the superpower so to say while in football they are not very good. However, who would have thought that the most popular sport in Indonesia is football. But popularity is not the most decisive aspect that gets you strong national teams. It is the full dedication to promote and foster talents, but then they probably lack the scouting abilities as well. In China, football is not so much emphasis put on and I think their physical condition gives them an edge in rather other sports. It is quite physical and if you look at the English guys, Italians, Germans, Spanish not so much but they are very strong technically and have an outstanding approach to promote the sport with whatever it needs.

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Quote from: shogun47 on November 26, 2024, 01:44:14 PM

then you can see that Iran is 19th and then countries like Denmark, South Korea and also Austria are behind them. How do these coefficients work? Do they get the same number of points when a game takes place Iran vs. Iraq like when Argentina plays against Brazil? Or do placements in the World Cup count more?

The points obtained for every win (or draw) depends on importance of the match and the relative strength of the opponents. It's not that teams win (or lose) same points for every win (or loss).

The more important the match is, the more effective it is. For example, a match which is played in the world cup has much more effect than a friendly match.
The more strong the opponent is, the more points the team would get for a win and the less points the team would lose for a loss.

Click here, for more information on how FIFA world ranking works and how the points are calculated.

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Quote from: baeva on November 25, 2024, 02:20:15 PM

Quote from: Pandu Geddon on November 25, 2024, 11:03:58 AM

Quote from: Jody.Drummer on November 25, 2024, 10:14:49 AM

Other countries are the same, for example Australia who lost in their first match, even though on paper they were highly favored. From the statistics, they have only won once, while the other 4 ended in a draw. This group is full of surprises and I think Indonesia is also lucky, because when they need another match to end in a draw, it always happens. For example, in the match between Bahrain vs Australia, the match ended in a draw and that was beneficial for Indonesia. Even China has won 2 even though the other 4 matches ended in defeat.

You are right, and the results of the current 6 matches will make the remaining matches very interesting and difficult to predict. The favorite team can get results beyond predictions. We may be able to choose our favorite team, but this group has a tight competition.
All teams still have a chance for 2nd position. It depends on their readiness next year to determine whether they will qualify for the World Cup directly or continue to the next round to continue the competition for tickets.

The next matches will be only in spring, I think if the teams have a desire, they will be well prepared during the preparation of national teams outside the club championships, but I think not every team has a chance to reach the next stage, Bahrain does not look a strong team and is likely to remain at the bottom of the table, but in general the whole group is like this with the exception of Japan, so anything can happen.

We can't expect to see the same good performances from Indonesia at all. Indonesia is not a bad team but don't forget that they even lost the game against China while China did not have a good performance since they wasted working with their new coach.
However regardless of the result, Indonesia can get into the next games, we can't expect to see miracles from this team and I don't think if they can ever have the chance to be in the 2026 World Cup at all.

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Guys when you look at the following screenshot from the FIFA World Ranking

then you can see that Iran is 19th and then countries like Denmark, South Korea and also Austria are behind them. How do these coefficients work? Do they get the same number of points when a game takes place Iran vs. Iraq like when Argentina plays against Brazil? Or do placements in the World Cup count more?

It looks a bit weird when Iran is ahead of Denmark and South Korea because I am sure they would lose most of the times if they played many games against each other. I have noticed that a while ago and I never liked this ranking because everyone who knows some things about football, would also know that Iran should be ranked lower if compared to some of the European teams. They wouldn't beat Austria and yet since Austria has much tougher opponents, they rank lower as a consequence.

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Quote from: Arenga pinnata on November 26, 2024, 07:49:57 AM

In Group C everything is still difficult to predict. Only Japan seems to have confirmed that it will qualify for the World Cup. Meanwhile, the rest, such as Saudi Arabia, Australia, Indonesia and China, all continue to change places. And there is still time until the next match is held. So all these teams have plenty of time to make better preparations.

I am very curious about the Indonesia vs Bahrain meeting again which will be held at the Glora Bung Karno stadium which is famous for its different atmosphere from other stadiums. In fact, one of the Saudi Arabian players who is also a player from the Al-Hilal club, namely Ali Albulayhi, who is usually a player who is known to be quite fierce and brave, turned out to be different when he played against Indonesia at GBK. Grin

Well, the Asian Zone World Cup qualifying round in Group C was indeed the fiercest so far. because actually in Group C there are even 3 national teams that have quite high rankings, namely Japan, Australia and Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, Bahrain is ranked 78th if I remember correctly and China is ranked 91st. And actually it is quite amazing to see the Indonesian National Team in Group C able to compete with other big teams. Because we know the Indonesian national team has the lowest FIFA ranking compared to the others there. Namely, Indonesia is ranked 125th. Quite a big difference, isn't it?

And the aura of pressure or atmosphere from the Indonesian supporters is always extraordinary. I salute those who are always present to support the Indonesian national team when they play at GBK or even abroad. I think Bahrain must mentally prepare itself. But they shouldn't worry about security or anything because in Indonesia the people are friendly and they will be surprised by how nice Indonesian people are in the real world.

Topic: FIFA World Cup 2026 :Canada/Mexico/United States: Discussion Thread - page 22. (Read 68872 times)