First BFL ASIC! - page 27. | Bitcointalksearch.org

2112

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1073

When I first heard the following read really fast over the radio I started laughing. But now I understand why things like that are getting done: litigation is the only other option.

Quote

Void where prohibited by law. Employees, temporary employees, independent contractors and interns of BFL, and each of their respective subsidiaries, parents, partners, other sweepstakes sponsors, advertising and promotional agencies and the immediate family members of each, and any persons living with, any such employees are not eligible to enter or to win. The term "immediate family members" includes spouses, parents, grandparents, siblings, children, and grandchildren.

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

No product was shipped

Agreed.

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

Post was after 31st March

Agreed.

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

No proof of actual hashing - or can a pool testify

Disagree. If you look closely at the photo, you can make out the eligius address:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

Looks like 2 singles "paired up" - screen even says, two devices

Disagree. In the photo you can see that only 1 board is powered.

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

Was by an employee

Debatable.

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

Either of these being true, makes the bet false.

Agreed?

Disagree. Any of the above being true makes the bet statement "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" true.

gdbutler

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: DobZombie on April 01, 2013, 01:04:44 PM

Quote from: gdbutler on April 01, 2013, 12:11:28 PM

Josh has already stated in the shoutbox on BFL's forum that they WILL be donating 1000 btc to charity. Not sure what all the debate is about here...

1 miiillion bucks?

:O

$100k at a $100 bitcoin

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 01, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

Quote from: Bogart on April 01, 2013, 07:04:43 AM

Also "The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate." Which product was your order for Luke? A Single or a Little Single?

This is my Little Single.

Is that what you had ordered?

DobZombie

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 532

Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum

Quote from: gdbutler on April 01, 2013, 12:11:28 PM

Josh has already stated in the shoutbox on BFL's forum that they WILL be donating 1000 btc to charity. Not sure what all the debate is about here...

1 miiillion bucks?

:O

jwzguy

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1002

Quote from: coinnewb on April 01, 2013, 12:56:35 PM

Quote from: Rampion on April 01, 2013, 12:46:49 PM

I did not gamble on this but come on guys, I don't understand how it is possible that some of you are considering this as "BFL is shipping"

What a joke

+1

Full disclosure: I did not bet on this either, but if you think BFL shipped by the evidence presented so far, you should run for a political office.

+2
No money at stake, but come on. This is MNW-level bet weaseling.

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: willphase on April 01, 2013, 12:14:05 PM

Quote from: JordanL on April 01, 2013, 10:12:23 AM

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession

The post happened on April 1, and the post date/time is what the bet terms specify. (Faking a timestamp on a photo is trivial BTW.)

Also I don't believe it was in Luke's possession. In the photo it is clearly sitting on the same test bench as was shown in Josh's demo video, and the file metadata data shows the photo author as "Josh". Luke himself said that he "left it at BFL".

coinnewb

full member

Activity: 155

Merit: 100

Quote from: Rampion on April 01, 2013, 12:46:49 PM

I did not gamble on this but come on guys, I don't understand how it is possible that some of you are considering this as "BFL is shipping"

What a joke

+1

Full disclosure: I did not bet on this either, but if you think BFL shipped by the evidence presented so far, you should run for a political office.

bonker

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 502

Quote from: AndyRossy on April 01, 2013, 12:40:44 PM

Quote from: willphase on April 01, 2013, 12:14:05 PM

Quote from: JordanL on April 01, 2013, 10:12:23 AM

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession, it was mining and it's a little single within 75% parameters of 30Gh (it was hashing at average of 23.52 which is 78%. Luke-Jr received the rig by picking it up in person at the BFL premises (which BFL have stated is fine if arranged in advance) then leaving it there to be hosted. Nowhere in the bet were any other rules stated.

I don't think this is a debate that will ever be concluded though because people will have diametrically opposed views based on their ideology, regardless of how betsofbitcoin resolve it, there will be a load of angry/unhappy people.

Will

No product was shipped
Post was after 31st March
No proof of actual hashing - or can a pool testify
Looks like 2 singles "paired up" - screen even says, two devices
Was by an employee

Either of these being true, makes the bet false.

Agreed?

Agreed to the above. Plus the fact that this isn't a real ASIC

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

I did not gamble on this but come on guys, I don't understand how it is possible that some of you are considering this as "BFL is shipping"

What a joke

AndyRossy

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: willphase on April 01, 2013, 12:14:05 PM

Quote from: JordanL on April 01, 2013, 10:12:23 AM

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession, it was mining and it's a little single within 75% parameters of 30Gh (it was hashing at average of 23.52 which is 78%. Luke-Jr received the rig by picking it up in person at the BFL premises (which BFL have stated is fine if arranged in advance) then leaving it there to be hosted. Nowhere in the bet were any other rules stated.

I don't think this is a debate that will ever be concluded though because people will have diametrically opposed views based on their ideology, regardless of how betsofbitcoin resolve it, there will be a load of angry/unhappy people.

Will

No product was shipped
Post was after 31st March
No proof of actual hashing - or can a pool testify
Looks like 2 singles "paired up" - screen even says, two devices
Was by an employee

Either of these being true, makes the bet false.

Agreed?

yxt

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 1116

Hashrate Average   Weighted Shares
3 hours   13.25 Gh/s   33325
22.5 minutes   1,845.25 Mh/s   580
256 seconds   26.32 Gh/s   1569
128 seconds   28.74 Gh/s   857

DataPlumber

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: Fiyasko on April 01, 2013, 12:07:27 PM

Could we stop talking about shipping and bets, Its friggin april 1st.
Whats important is that (if the image is correct) The BFL ASIC produces ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO HARDWARE FAULTS in 43 minutes
122 Hardware Faults in 43minutes is NOT a good sign!!

If the device were running at a nice round number like 1GH/s, that'd be:

122 / (1,000,000,000 * 60 * 43)

0.000000004729% error rate.

I think I could tolerate that.

Edit: math.

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 01, 2013, 12:03:52 PM

Quote from: Syke on April 01, 2013, 11:50:41 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 01, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

Quote from: Miner99er on April 01, 2013, 04:21:13 AM

For this bet to be won tho, there needs to be a shipping label and/or tracking number.

There is, but I'd prefer not to give the trolls my personal info.

Then where are the posted photos taken by yourself at your delivery location? Re-posting photos of devices at the factory doesn't count.

Why not? I'll update my forum avatar at some point, but don't feel like cleaning up my desk right now.

Quote from: mobodick on April 01, 2013, 11:55:20 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 01, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

Quote from: mobodick on April 01, 2013, 10:20:46 AM

Another thing that bugs me is that Luke was put into service by BFL a while back so he could work on their product. During this time he stayed in a hotel. If the money for the hotel was payed out of BFLs pocket i see this as a compensation for his involvement with the product and that would make him a BFL employee by my definition.

Your definition is irrelevant. An employee means "one employed by another usually for wages or salary and in a position below the executive level" in English. The legal definition is more specific, and makes it completely clear that I am not an employee.

Yeah, and i use this definition:

'An "employee" is defined as "a preference eligible in the excepted service who has completed 1 year of current continuous service in the same or similar positions" or "an individual in the excepted service (other than a preference eligible) . . . who is not serving a probationary or trial period under an initial appointment pending conversion to the competitive service." Ramos v. Merit Sys. Prot. Bd., 2009 U.S. App. LEXIS 24378 (Fed. Cir. Nov. 6, 2009) '

(http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/employee/)

So if your expenses were payed in exchange for specific work done at the request of BFL and you were not a temp at BFL you could be seen as an employee. But actually more likely as a contractor.

In any case, by your definition i'd say you were an employee as well because you were employed to do some work for BFL in exchange for a financial compensation and your position was lower than executive level.

"Excepted service" in all definitions I can find refers to a class of people working for the federal government.

"An employer has the right to control an employee. It is important to determine whether the company had the right to direct and control the workers not only as to the results desired, but also as to the details, manner and means by which the results were accomplished. If the company had the right to supervise and control such details of the work peformed, and the manner and means by which the results were to be accomplished, an employer-employee relationship would be indicated. On the other hand, the absence of supervision and control by the company would support a finding that the workers were independent contractors and not employees. Whether or not such control was exercised is not the determining factor, it is the right to control which is key."

This makes it clear I am not an employee.

On the contrary.
If BFL would give you specifications to work against and expect you to implement them then that could establish an employer-employee relationship between you.
The question is, would BFL still pay for your expenses if you wouldn't do the work for them in a way they specified.

But i have to admit that i'm not from the US so my knowledge of these types of things is limited.
Probably also the reason i read "excepted" as "expected".

But do i understand clearly that in the US you're not an employee if you haven't worked at the place for at least one year?
Brutal. Shocked

willphase

hero member

Activity: 767

Merit: 500

Quote from: JordanL on April 01, 2013, 10:12:23 AM

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

It does sound like they met these requirements. Wow, what a slimy way to win a bet. Good thing I made my wagers on bitbet. Always read the fine print!!

For what it's worth, I agree that the bet is won, the screenshot was posted, and the date on the screenshot is 2013-03-31 so it was March, it was in Luke's possession, it was mining and it's a little single within 75% parameters of 30Gh (it was hashing at average of 23.52 which is 78%. Luke-Jr received the rig by picking it up in person at the BFL premises (which BFL have stated is fine if arranged in advance) then leaving it there to be hosted. Nowhere in the bet were any other rules stated.

I don't think this is a debate that will ever be concluded though because people will have diametrically opposed views based on their ideology, regardless of how betsofbitcoin resolve it, there will be a load of angry/unhappy people.

Will

gdbutler

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: miter_myles on April 01, 2013, 12:12:44 PM

There was another bet regarding "shipping" before end of March I believe..

Oh ok, didn't realize there were 2 bets.

miter_myles

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

There was another bet regarding "shipping" before end of March I believe..

gdbutler

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Josh has already stated in the shoutbox on BFL's forum that they WILL be donating 1000 btc to charity. Not sure what all the debate is about here...

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 01, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

Quote from: Miner99er on April 01, 2013, 04:21:13 AM

For this bet to be won tho, there needs to be a shipping label and/or tracking number.

There is

Last night on IRC didn't you say:

Quote

02:44:30 a_meteorite: did you go to BFL HQ or was it shipped? assuming you can reveal that..
02:54:38 Luke-Jr: a_meteorite: I've physically touched it, but I've left it at BFL for the time being.

Fiyasko

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1001

Okey Dokey Lokey

Could we stop talking about shipping and bets, Its friggin april 1st.
Whats important is that (if the image is correct) The BFL ASIC produces ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO HARDWARE FAULTS in 43 minutes
122 Hardware Faults in 43minutes is NOT a good sign!!

Topic: First BFL ASIC! - page 27. (Read 58288 times)