Topic: First BFL ASIC! - page 26. (Read 58260 times)

Seconded.

am i doing it right?

why not throw up some simple math to back your point?

Disclaimer: I DO have a stake in the BoB bet; I bet a quite considerable amount for it (i.e. they would NOT ship). Obviously I would greatly prefer that this bet outcome is decided as true.

Having said that, I can see arguments for each side. I will be furious if the bet is decided as false. But others will be furious if it decided as true. If it is false, BFL have only 'delivered' in the most profoundly weaselly way possible.

75% rate? It gets 78%. 3 freakin' points over the minimum requirement. And ONLY if you look at the average for the most recent time interval, not a few hours.

It wasn't 'shipped', it was kept at BFL labs. But the word shipped is only in the title, not the main text. So it may not count.

The bet condition specifies 'before April 1st'. So the cgminer output shows... March the goatfucking 31st. At 17 horsefisting minutes to midnight.

Someone needs to post pictures 'before April 1st'. So Luke does it at 36 minutes past midnight on April 1st, and says 'as of yesterday' as soon as he possibly can. So we can all have a good long wank about timezones.

At the end of the bet the event deadline is 'April 1, 2013 end of day Eastern Time'. But the main text says 'before April 1st'. So do we go by the main bet text or the 'Event Date' field in the Info section? If the latter takes precedence over the former, does the word 'shipped' in the title also overrule the bet text? If not, why not?

The poster cannot be a BFL employee. So it apparently 'belongs' (see next point) to someone who is not technically an employee in the strictest sense. Though it seems to me that 'independent contractor who writes the software that BFL have stated is part of the product' makes this a distinction without a difference.

It's clearly the same setup as previously posted videos from BFL. But Luke insists it's his unit. Even though it's in BFL labs. Why, it's almost as if someone from BFL labs phoned Luke up a few minutes before midnight and said 'Hey Luke... the prototype we've just barely got working in our labs. It's yours! But we need a favour in return...'

The bet concerns 'the 3 Butterfly Labs Bitforce SC products'. What's on the photo is clearly not any of the finished products. Or at least it had better fucking well not be. But, maybe it's what will go inside a Single.

The power draw is a fucking joke, FAR above what BFL promised. But the bet doesn't mention power.

The unit has tons of hardware errors and likely as not will fail within a week. But the bet doesn't say it can't be a lemon.

It sure looks like two units, so the stated hashrate would mean they've failed the 75% criterion. But... maybe only one unit is hashing?

The bet text requires 'at least one BFL customer'. And so we get... one. Can't argue with that. One is 'at least one'. SOME people might expect that given that BFL have THOUSANDS of preorders, the number of confirmed working ASICS shipped to customers ought to be at least... say... two. Preferably two thousand. But 1>=1. Why work to please your customers when you can work to weasel a bet?

[ETA: further points - how reliable is Luke? Given that the photos were taken by Josh at BFL, how credible does that make them? The only independent confirmation we have is from LUKE'S FUCKING POOL. Not exactly 'independent'... oh, but then, it's not technically his pool anymore. But he still advises on it and has software access]

So it's pretty fucking clear that BFL have certainly failed the *spirit* of the bet, even if they've followed the *letter*, and even that is debatable. As was said earlier, this stupid fucking thread cannot be taken to mean that BFL have stepped up to the plate. It's a cheap fucking stunt because they were shitting their pants about losing money on the bet, so they looked carefully at all minutiae to see if they could pull a fast one.

Whilst I would be happiest to win the bet, an acceptable alternative, and probably the best for all concerned, would be for BetsOfBitcoin to annul the bet and give EVERYONE on both sides their money back. And then go visit BFL labs and take a dump in all of their coffee mugs.

[ETA2: of course all this assumes that the devices shown are NOT just FPGA singles with the covers off. If they are then the bet's unquestionably true]

if BFL does ship, avalon batch 3 ROI is gonna be game over.

Thought the 500, was a dead give away.   If they were "shipping", there would be 299 photos up today (unless they have lied about being able to make 500, sorry 300 units a day.

I think ngzhang in the same way silently "shipped" his first Avalon to Yifu back in 2012 
(or vice versa)

How am I supposed to know you're not actually stupid enough to believe that?  

Sarcasm is hard to pick up on sometimes in written dialog unless it is blatantly obvious, it's not that I don't understand it..

and some people do not understand sarcasm. 

They are not shipping...

People don't understand that BFL shipping a PROTOTYPE to a BFL EMPLOYEE doesn't mean they are actually shipping finished products to customers yet.

If BFL would allow me, and if the forum participants would pool together enough to cover a half-day or so of salary (which would be roughly $100 - I'm low on PTO and need to save it for kids illnesses), I'd be willing to drive over to their office for whatever kind of proof/evidence y'all are looking to see.
 
I live in Lawrence, which is half-hour to the outskirts of KC, and about one hour to just about anywhere in KC.
 
I'm curious about all this myself, since I have a couple products on pre-order.  

Wow this is great news.   And now that they are shipping and they can make 500, oops, 300 per day as they stated, when will we see the other 299 rigs that they shipped on the first day go up?

Sorry, but it is not a finished product and isn't the retail (as in production ready) model.

It is a board screwed to a metal plate with incomplete software and is (bluntly put) a prototype. They do not win the bet. Not by a mile.

I don't have any bet, but seems due to the vague terms of the bet itself, neither side can claim to be a clear winner. The delivery itself is a big progress anyway

It seems the little single has stopped hashing since a while ago, too much heat?

Remember, there are two bets, one of which was a gentleman's agreement of sorts of which Josh/BFL are on record stating that it will be honored. The other is a betofbitcoins.com bet, worded the best way possible, making sure minimal argument ensues, yet...

Clearly, the midnight petroleum was being burned in KC to hopefully produce before the deadline, but to no prevail, hence conceding their bet.

I don't know what part of Australia Luke lives in, but local time of his post (the OP of this thread) was late afternoon (3-6PM) on April 1, 2013. Luke stated he received (took possession) of said device the day before, in his word(s) yesterday (local time), thus claiming it was working then but now getting around to showing proof. Since the proof was in BFL's possession, they would have surely shown it ~24 hours earlier, sometime between the YouTube posting and the starting of this thread.

What now has ensued is pages of discussion about a bet(s) taking away from us other important Bitcoin related issues that need addressing like should rockso get a scammer tag.

Peace, all.

~Bruno K~

Clearly whoever created the bet didn't word it very well. They left a lot of room for them to slither out. It's good theater though. Lets see how much time this new information buys BFL. 

Yes, I meant true.

The post was after midnight, as was the hasing on the pool above, and imo it's an employee testing out the hardware on a dev bench at the BFL lab - i'd even question if Luke was there or took these pictures.

What's the over/under on how long it hashed until it starting smoking and caught on fire?? 

I think the general consensus is that they lost the bet, but people are fighting over what is the reason why the lost the bet. For those that have not actually read the text of the bet:
"For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate."

it's true that none of those conditions mention anything about shipping, but the "Before April 1" line stands out. In the absence of a time zone specification, I'd go with UTC. It's up to the BoB to figure out what the timezone is and then sift through the remaining points.

Disclosure:  I do not have any stake in the outcome of the "BFL Ships ASIC before April 1st" bet.


With that said, from what I have read and the details about the unit not being in the possession of Luke-Jr, it being on the test bench and Luke not being with the unit.  Also mentioning that BFL likely violated their own 1/3 shipping plan, shows that this was more of a STUNTto win a bet and not a real shipment.


Verdict: Bet is lost


Sidenote:  It is promising to finally see this type of progress from BFL and we should not berate them so harshly when they really gave people information they have been craving.   I know they are late and have done many objectionable tactics, but you can't burn them on the stake for this one.  It is good to see that information released.