FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot! - page 7.

verusfides

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Quote from: Lauda on January 15, 2019, 06:28:26 PM

Quote from: verusfides on January 15, 2019, 06:26:34 PM

Actually I read through some archives and they do have some program called a PBA? Which is short for Player Bet Analysis. I'm guessing it gives insight into whether players were betting very erratically as if they had acquired funds through exploits of casino grounds. It's in one of the resolved posts in AskGamblers FortuneJack complaints and mentioned in a staff members response to a player. Prior to that I had no knowledge they had that kind of software for players.

FJ should clarify why this was not caught by this detection system (if it exists/is being used?) or the staff sooner.

Also I'm reminding you again to merge posts.

but I wanted it to be a separate post and unique in its own right as a means to end the ongoing problem with the casino in hopes we may all move on to greater things in life. Like taking unexpected shots at Lauda unexpectedly and out of the blue.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: verusfides on January 15, 2019, 06:26:34 PM

Actually I read through some archives and they do have some program called a PBA? Which is short for Player Bet Analysis. I'm guessing it gives insight into whether players were betting very erratically as if they had acquired funds through exploits of casino grounds. It's in one of the resolved posts in AskGamblers FortuneJack complaints and mentioned in a staff members response to a player. Prior to that I had no knowledge they had that kind of software for players.

FJ should clarify why this was not caught by this detection system (if it exists/is being used?) or the staff sooner.

Also I'm reminding you again to merge posts.

verusfides

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Activity: 70

Merit: 3

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:44:44 PM

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:33:03 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

Actually I read through some archives and they do have some program called a PBA? Which is short for Player Bet Analysis. I'm guessing it gives insight into whether players were betting very erratically as if they had acquired funds through exploits of casino grounds. It's in one of the resolved posts in AskGamblers FortuneJack complaints and mentioned in a staff members response to a player. Prior to that I had no knowledge they had that kind of software for players.

verusfides

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Hello everyone thank you all so far for your numerous inputs and countless insights to the current situation that is in front of you. I believe I have a reasonable solution to all this which was in fact suggested by another user. If you could all please read and post +1 if you agree with this as a reasonable solution for both parties or simply - 1 for against.

We have ascertained many facts regarding this case. I had acquired roughly 2 BTC from the bugged money. During the 13 hours within casino grounds however I had not spent more than 0.2 BTC on any slot or casino orientated game and that at best I had not used more no more than 0.209 BTC throughout the whole night. Casino has acknowledged they were slow to respond to the situation which cause this whole mess to occur. Then would it be possible for the casino to agree that if they had given me their bug bounty of 0.2 BTC earlier before I had gotten my way over to the Plinko section. I would have in fact had reached the jackpot with their bug bounty money. I feel this is 99% possible and a very solid solution that would diffuse confusion of whether it was the bugged money at play or indeed my initial deposit. Would the community find this highly agreeable? As stated please comment simply with a +1 for and - 1 against.

Thank you all so far in helping me build my case and helping me reach a resolution with the casino. You guys have all been very helpful. Even the negative ones.

Bazinga442

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on January 15, 2019, 05:44:12 PM

Quote from: Bazinga442 on January 15, 2019, 05:36:08 PM

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.

OP is no saint here. He could have showed good moral judgement and messaged support. He instead decided to exploit the bug and ended up hitting a jackpot. Be it not for FJ irresponsible error of letting the public play a possibly buggy game with real money(all new games could have bugs, this is why you do BETA tests first), I would be vote for the casino.

I wasn't the one calling the OP a "saint". That would be fortunejack in their attempt at sweettalking the op into abandoning his win.

Quote from: mikeywith on January 15, 2019, 04:56:52 PM

This goes to FortuneJack

2- if you were so sure this player was abusing a bug on your system, why did you have to compensate him + give him his deposit back?

Hush money.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:46:49 PM

Not disagreeing with you, but it is pretty reasonable to have staff monitor a newly released game that was basically in a beta state where players were betting real money.

Quite reasonable, but these thing happen in every industry (see teeGUMES's post while I was writing). If there was no malice, then it was handled properly. However, if there was malice then the casino deserves consequences. Given that they had very little to gain from this, I highly doubt someone intentionally acted malliciously (given that you could destroy your reputation for pocket change).

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:51:17 PM

There have been and currently are companies large and small, that grow too fast too quick. They see the influx of money and profit coming in and they get greedy. They do not hire the correct amount of staff, instill the proper securities, and instead spend the money on marketing.

Could say the same for Facebook, heh.

teeGUMES

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Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:44:44 PM

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:33:03 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

There have been and currently are companies large and small, that grow too fast too quick. They see the influx of money and profit coming in and they get greedy. They do not hire the correct amount of staff, instill the proper securities, and instead spend the money on marketing.
Any online casino/exchange that I can answer No to any single one of your questions asked would raise the largest red flag. (think exchange and you get a big ol clear picture of past happenings and why this should be worrying)

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on January 15, 2019, 05:41:57 PM

They only way to truely settle something like this is by getting a lawyer. Everybody is dying to give you their opinion on this but it isn't going to help you at all.

We all know why they're registered in some buttfuck nowhere shell company haven areas. So that lawyers don't even think it worthwhile to be involved.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:44:44 PM

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:33:03 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

Not disagreeing with you, but it is pretty reasonable to have staff monitor a newly released game that was basically in a beta state where players were betting real money.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:33:03 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

yahoo62278

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Quote from: Bazinga442 on January 15, 2019, 05:36:08 PM

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.

OP is no saint here. He could have showed good moral judgement and messaged support. He instead decided to exploit the bug and ended up hitting a jackpot. Be it not for FJ irresponsible error of letting the public play a possibly buggy game with real money(all new games could have bugs, this is why you do BETA tests first), I would be vote for the casino.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Emphasis on "more malice". I highly doubt this is the case, but it is a possibility. I think it's most likely that FortuneJack is incompetent and/or wanted to freeroll verusfides. Occam's razor.

TheNewAnon135246

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฿uy ฿itcoin

They only way to truely settle something like this is by getting a lawyer. Everybody is dying to give you their opinion on this but it isn't going to help you at all.

yahoo62278

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Activity: 3682

Merit: 4469

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:16:47 PM

Quote from: vlom on January 15, 2019, 05:12:52 PM

Quote from: verusfides on January 15, 2019, 05:09:50 PM

they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

There is also the fact that verusfides had a good plinko seed. Had he have lost all of his money, he may have decided to redeposit and still end up playing plinko, winning the jackpot. It's not uncommon for gamblers to keep adding more money when they lose.

In my opinion, he should be paid out for the plinko jackpot as it was a legitimate win; there was no bug on plinko. All other losses should be deducted from the plinko win amount. Perhaps all of his Adrenaline bets could be fixed to show the correct winning/losing amount, and have his net loss/profit added to his plinko win amount.

FJ is going to claim he would have not had the funds to make the bet on plinko had he not bet the buggy game 1st. We have no idea how much btc the OP has and whether he would have redopsited on plinko trying to win. The winning bet was rather high(.025btc i believe) and compared to his .0094 initial deposit amount, I would guess the OP would not have been betting .025 bets on his own money.(Obviously i could be wrong but the facts show this to be a reasonable assumption.)

IMO FJ was contacted by multiple players(see quote below) and was aware the game was buggy. How long between the players reporting the bugs and the bug being fixed? Why were the players testing the game with real money? If you're gonna basically run a BETA test, why not use the FJ currency as mentioned by someone before in this soon to be mega thread?

If players are risking real money seems like FJ is saying we are willing to take the loss?

In reality, the OP most likely would not have won a 20btc jackpot on his own funds, but the bug issue is so fucked up I almost think FJ has no choice here but to pay the Jackpot. They took the risk to let the public use real money for testing their new game, they should assume the risks of the events that transpired after his play on the bugged game.

Bazinga442

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Merit: 24

Quote from: Lauda on January 15, 2019, 05:02:22 PM

Quote from: FortuneJack on January 15, 2019, 10:27:25 AM

At some point of the game, severe bug affected the play of some players online at that very moment. This is the moment when player Verusfides set auto cash out on 60. As you see from his bet history game starts to bug, and every bet turns out to be won and player suddenly after realizing this firstly doubles the bet and continues to play the bugged game and after 20 minutes or so raises auto cash out from 60 to 200 continuing to stream money from the bugged game. As you see in history, every single bet is won, and I am talking about 70 consecutive bets.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 15, 2019, 04:56:00 PM

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that. You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there. Should the casino honor any of your bets? I really don't know the rules, but it seems sketchy on the gambler's part in that case, because he knows he's playing a broken machine. Sure you could say, "Well, that's not my problem, it's the casino's" but that doesn't sound right to me.

javascript:void(0);
You'd get stripped away from all winnings and get kicked out. It would be similar to how they handle people that attempt cheating in 'traditional' ways.

Hogwash. Your attempts to paint the OP as an abuser and a cheat is lame.

In FortuneJack's thread own words:

Quote from: FortuneJack on January 14, 2019, 11:08:05 AM

The Player himself is a very gentle and polite human, and casino staff shared deep sympathy towards him, but in this case, there is nothing else we could do. We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience, but consider that our treatment, in this case, is entirely fair.

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.

teeGUMES

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Quote from: Hhampuz on January 15, 2019, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: DarkStar_ on January 15, 2019, 05:24:35 PM

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

vlom

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 15, 2019, 05:19:55 PM

Quote from: vlom on January 15, 2019, 05:12:52 PM

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

See, I would agree with this but how the hell do you prove that?

dont know.

but OP writes:

Quote from: verusfides on January 14, 2019, 09:49:03 AM

TL;DR Won a total of 22 BTC -20 from Plinko jackpot 1000x and 2 from Adrenaline. Fortunejack siezed all earnings claiming a bug from the game Adrenaline which was advertised by them.

and i dont know if this is true or not.

thats why I wrote "if they knew".

there is to much money on the table to hope that everybody is honest...... maybe somebody can prove it.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 15, 2019, 05:19:55 PM

The only thing the casino would have to gain would be OP's original deposit, right?

After the bug occurred, in FortuneJack's point of view, there is no point in fixing his balance until the player decides to withdraw everything. All FortuneJack has to gain is verusfides's deposit, but they have nothing to lose. If verusfides won (like in this case), they could blame the bug, and return only his deposit. FortuneJack is basically freerolling verusfides - letting them place bets, taking his money if he lost, and not paying out if he won. This is not okay.

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

Quote from: teeGUMES on January 15, 2019, 05:24:15 PM

Say verusfides never tried to withdraw(that was halted and needed further approval).. continued to play with the 2btc he had won.. loses it all. Stops playing. Would FortuneJack have contacted him that the game he was playing was bugged and caused him to lose his initial deposit and that they would refund it for him.

I bet the answer would be no.

teeGUMES

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Say verusfides never tried to withdraw(that was halted and needed further approval).. continued to play with the 2btc he had won.. loses it all. Stops playing. Would FortuneJack have contacted him that the game he was playing was bugged and caused him to lose his initial deposit and that they would refund it for him.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: vlom on January 15, 2019, 05:12:52 PM

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

See, I would agree with this but how the hell do you prove that? It also wouldn't make sense unless FJ really thought OP was going to lose everything. Otherwise it would make more sense for the casino to step in and put a stop to it before a problem like this arose. The only thing the casino would have to gain would be OP's original deposit, right? I mean in the case that FJ knew it would eventually deny his claim to his winnings and let him play anyway.

I don't know if FJ would do that; if it would be worth the hassle for them; and how anyone could show their intent to do that. Again, I'm not really taking FJ's side, but I'm looking at OP's assertion with a skeptical eye.

Edit:

Quote from: vlom on January 15, 2019, 05:25:12 PM

there is to much money on the table to hope that everybody is honest...... maybe somebody can prove it.

You got that right. And what DarkStar_ said basically what I said, the whole thing rests on whether they knew about the bug and chose not to fix it and let OP continue to play in the hopes that he'd lose his original deposit. I'm not sure a reputational smear is worth that for a casino, but who knows.

Topic: FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot! - page 7. (Read 2870 times)