Topic: FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot! - page 4. (Read 2893 times)

To be entirely fair, given enough time, there will be a set of 60 consecutive games in which the SpinBPS is >200 -- simply saying this is unlikely does not mean it should not have happened. Being that the game is not provably fair, it is difficult to say one way or another there were a sequence of games that should have had a SpinBPS of over 200.

In regards to your rationale that there was a "system failure" because the game was not provably fair, I would not agree with you on this. The game not being provably fair is the result of FJ misrepresenting a feature of the game. I would note the game is presently not provably fair.

One could argue (reasonably) the game paying out wins on a 200 BPS, when the SpinBPS was under 200 is a "system failure", and I would agree to the extent it can be believed the seeds were not changed after the fact to make the SpinBPS be under 200.

Yeah but, what if there's more than one whale. lets say 10 people with a balance of 10 BTC each all came to that casino to play on their machines only to find due to one being bugged none of those people earned any profits?

Also in reference to that link you sent me. Isn't that another clear example of manipulation? Its very funny that the events of global deposit manipulation happens on all their provably fair games. With that example they have the opportunity to reverse all bets at that time simply due to the fact that it was playing on opposite ends and claim due to a bug they have to reverse everyone's dice wager and all subsequent bets after right? Was this person awarded more bug bounty for making it aware on forums like I was? Because it seems to me they're subjectively glitching or creating small bugs on purpose with the intention of altering bets due to that event it's just that nobody thought of it to this extent. Dice is also a game that shouldn't even be subject to manipulation in anyway. How did that even occur? I've seen so many people use the same exact Dice format as FJ casino in so many other casino's yet none of them run into a glitch like that. Isn't the simplicity of provably fair the reason why it's promoted so well? Yet somehow on here, unexpectedly it would happen and that just so happens to return wagers of every person that came into contact with that game on that specific day. Whether they fell into a win or a loss. Isn't it strange that things like this very nature would happen over and over again?

This isn't even the fact of whether they're competent or incompetent. Who here has seen a Dice game glitch on where it rolls at opposite sides? Anyone see a glitch like that ever? I've never seen so much as a single problem other than lag in dice roll games. Tell me I'm wrong.

I doubt there were any whales playing at the time. If there were, it's more profitable for them to abuse their broken provably fair, and take the whale's 80 BTC or whatever balance they had through bad crash points.


The BPS is supposed to average at x1.98 bust. If they have flawed RNG or cheat, they could average the bust at x1.75 for example which increases the house edge as it's harder for the player to win.

By you I do mean FortuneJack, and it's not a conspiracy it's just a theory because compared to the 0.08 they would have to pay out for the bug, what if the amount they had prevented in their casino from losing was greater? Wouldn't that just seem out of convenience a bug like that was in play that very given day? Considering an 80 BTC loss to 8 BTC loss (from bug bounty awards) wouldn't seem highly unlikely would it?

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

Does "you" refer to FortuneJack or the player? In this case, the player can't manipulate the game as the crash value is fully generated on the server side and there is quite a bit of time before that crash value is played. FortuneJack could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch, but there's no point for them to do that because it would mean they pay out a 0.08BTC bug bounty to everyone affected and they could undetectably modify bust values to make everyone lose if there was a high roller playing.

You're beating a dead horse at this point I think - you went for mediation, and mediation ruled against you. No point making conspiracy theories.


FortuneJack has shown that they are pretty incompetent at running a casino, so I'm pretty confident that the fake provably fair was made out of incompetence and not malice. For example, they took over 20 days and their "top specialists" to fix a simple visual error and compensate the player for it.

We'll see how FortuneJack responds - optimally, they should refund all players who lost money playing Adrenaline as those players expected a fair game, but could have been cheated at any time. (and/or consistently, if the bust point deviates from a lower value than x1.98 for their 2% house edge)

Is there a way you could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch. In regards to the post you commented about the probably fair of the game itself not being provably fair because I refuse to believe for one second that this happened unknowingly and out of the blue on a game which was announced via email and notification to come play.

A system failure can occur because of a hardware failure or a severe software issue, causing the system to freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether. A system failure may or may not result in an error being displayed on the screen.

Keyword is freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether.

I didn't see the site fall into any non op status the whole time I was there.

And also in that regard I'm asking. How would that not go unnoticed. That should have been noticed in testing grounds. This is clearly negligence your telling me that not once did this error happen during the time they tested and released but miraculously just happened to begin upon its release? That's ridiculous

Sorry for the double post, but this is for a different-ish topic than my other post and I'd rather keep them separate.

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verusfides went to AskGamblers for mediation:


This was AskGamblers response:

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Given that verusfides has taken compensation, and mediation ruled against them, I think this case can be considered settled on the forum. (if verusfides wishes to proceed with their argument, they should get a lawyer). There's only the issue of fake provably fair left.

system failure
A hardware or operating system malfunction. See fault tolerant.

Source: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52395/system-failure
https://www.yourdictionary.com/system-failure


malfuncation
1. a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner.

satisfactory
1. fulfilling expectations or needs; acceptable, though not outstanding or perfect.

Source: Google Dictionary/OxfordDictionaries

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There was a system failure because the game did not function to expectations and needs (being provably fair)

You say new casino. The casinos been up and running for 5 years. There's no way they wouldn't know the differentiation between the two and even then this begs in question as to why there wasn't any notification of a possible bug in this game when they had in fact did so well in notifying bug existences of other games to its players.

Do they not in fact test the games themselves before final release? I'm telling you there's no way in this world that could have gone unnoticed by the numerous amount of developers they had. How could they deny knowledge of its existence when it seems like everybody else could see the problem pretty plainly. Are you saying the developers were as stupid as I am or did they simply turn a blind eye.

I'm very certain that it is the case, but that doesn't mean they did it in malice. I'm betting that the flawed provably fair system was due to incompetence, and not malice. All other provably fair games should be provably fair. It's not too rare to see a new casino have a flawed provably fair system.

The correct and non-scammy thing to do here is for FortuneJack to refund all users who had losses playing Adrenaline, as they could have been cheated, while allowing those who made a profit to keep their profit (excluding those who profited from the always win bug however) as they made a profit when the casino could have been cheating, which is fine.

You're a overreacting a bit I think. If FortuneJack does not void all plays on Adrenaline (inline with their own policy of "All wagers and bets shall be void in case of a system failure. The original wager shall be refunded.") at the minimum (optimally they should let those who won keep their winnings), then it might be worth calling them a "scam".

From what I'm beginning to understand is they had every intention of doing this but since there was a player with about 0.009 BTC who miraculously hit the jackpot on plinko and made a big deal about them not paying out they explained the fact how I couldn't have possibly won with 0.009 BTC expecting you all to believe that's the whole basis of the case, but no that isn't.

The whole basis is the fact that FortuneJack screwed people intentionally with deposits whether big or small. So they should follow that very rule of bugs voiding casino winnings. They should reverse all reversals in the accounts for purposefully abusing the bug which made the accounts to be altered to begin with.

Am I? I didn't know how I won so that playing stupid? Let's say even if I did know. You're gonna tell me that excuses the casino somehow? No right? So why should any of us have to return any funds we won in a casinos attempted underhanded tactic to prevent its own losses from its players. All of a sudden because I revealed it are they willing to retract what they did? I doubt it because if they did they'd be in too much debt because of the amount of damage the bug would've done. So they don't really have a choice but to say they cheated all those players and refuse to return any kind of winning to anybody. Hows that work out for all the players. You think they're all ok with that? We prevented x amount of winnings but in return we'll give you 23 dollars as compensation!

Are you gonna be OK with that? Is a player who had a 3500 dollar account limit be OK with that when they clearly could have won more? Clearly who gains the advantage here? They limit anyone from making any gains for a single day. While sending 23 dollars to each player. This is clearly malicious manipulation.

Tell me Darkstar you pointed out there game was indeed available to manipulation so could there be in fact a way they could make this event seem like a bug yet it was actually the casinos malicious intent to make it seem the program was glitched?

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.

I think you're kinda playing stupid too - you won a 200x payout 69 times in a row. The chance of that happening is so minuscule that you probably would have known that there was a bug. Assuming zero house edge, the chance of that happening is 1.694066 * 10^-159 (basically impossible)

It's very questionable that a staff would not notice this kind of bug. Regardless of how human they are. The bug in itself is pretty noticeable for anyone who has knowledge of the game correct? So how did absolutely no one on your developer side notice this? You guys are pretending to play stupid aren't you?

uhm... Okay but wtf... Lol listen to what you're saying. Is it just me or did you just admit that adrenaline does have a real problem and is not probably fair. So regardless of anything you did it was indeed your site's fault. That's what your saying right doesn't matter about any bets that came after regardless.

Also don't expect everyone to know what kind of game adrenaline is. That was my first time playing a game like that who're you to immediately make the assumption that I'm like every other gambler on the page.

No it would've been voided credit if they addressed it to us as voided credit. Or it would've been FJC if they allowed the game to be only played as FJC which is their free play credit they allowed real money to get poured into the damn thing. Then let me play over and over without doing a damn thing regarding the money. So hows it my fault. Why not just misguide every other gambler too and give them all jackpots and reverse there accounts too. The fact is you let me receive something then took it away saying it's a bug from something that shouldn't have happened. So take responsibility comparing 80,000 to 80 Dollars in my opinion isn't considered being responsible. Feel free to say something in regards to that.

And also you said you'll make more files public. Show the amounts of all accounts you reversed that day. Post amounts after adrenaline. Let's address everyone then. You wanna keep pointing fingers at me saying I'm acting out of hand. Show the results for all gamblers who had any ties with adrenaline bug. Then show results of the amount in their account after they had played with your voided credit and then show the reversal you did. I'm sure the community will understand what I'm getting at.

If you didn't want us to play with voided credit you wouldn't have allowed credit to be used in the first place. It's clearly obvious you guys did this to manipulate your losses.

Imagine that advertising to everyone one day to come play Adrenaline. Introducing new and old gamblers. With a whole crowd of people on your website I'm sure they all touched that game once. Let me guess something. You never gave any bounty to the people that lost on the adrenaline game that day did you? Tell us David. I'm sure you have some lovely explanation for that.

What you're saying states that you forced everyone to comply to your liability rule when none of those players had knowledge, see you guys never once addressed adrenaline would have bugs, yet on reddit you have bug bounties for mine and plinko. Why is it you guys didn't make public adrenaline might have issues when you knew it would?

Do we even have any proof you didn't intentionally malfunction that game to begin with? After all Darkstar pointed out that the game in fact could be manipulated. Maybe you slipped in that erroneous error knowing you could then in fact be entitled to reverse anyone's account as you freely chose. I'd like anyone to try to prove what I'm saying is wrong.

Also one last edit. I deposited 0.0095 BTC that night but that's myself. What about the players who had a higher account balance that night lets say people with 1 BTC or higher and wouldve made higher wagers on other games. I think this is good enough to accuse the casino of safeguarding losses.

You had released your other two games knowing it would come with bugs and you released that in a statement to reddit. Why didn't you release the same statement in reddit regarding adrenaline if you knew it would have a bug, if this was indeed your bug bounty in progress you would've told them about the event would you have not. In those games you knew they would have bugs so doesn't that mean in fact you could've known adrenaline had this kind of bug? My question is who was actually bug abusing was is the players or was it the casino themselves.

I'm willing to chat with them about it. I've joined their Discord so they can feel free to message me there, or through any other public communications channels I have (ie Forum PM, Telegram). I think my post outlines all of the issues with it though, so there's likely no need. (though I do want a bug bounty for reporting the issue  )

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My final thoughts on OP's issue: 0.2BTC was a good enough payout for something he shouldn't have been able to win in the first place.

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)



The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.



Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

I really fail to see the issue here. The Terms & Conditions are quite clear:



You agree to the T&C when signing up on FortuneJack so the OP should've been aware of it. They have refunded his bets and even given him 0.2 BTC (which he accepted). He then proceeds to lose that 0.2 and is now complaining that they aren't paying out the jackpot (which is covered in the T&C).