Topic: FORTUNEJACK.COM |Deposit 777 play with 1777 mBTC |Live Casino, Slots, Betting - page 154. (Read 465252 times)

-
Hey @Juggy777,

The number of status points varies, depending on how much you win or lose.

One thing is sure, this particular member most probably owns YACHT or a LAMBO. Tiers include 7-10% cashback along with decent reload bonuses.

To calculate points precisely, feel free to head over to the calculator section of the Miami Garage. 

@FJ how much is that user wagering to earn that huge Cashback, and is he only wagering on dice to get such massive cash backs or is he’s playing on other games too. Lastly is it possible for you to share some more statistics about his bets, as all could learn a trick or two from his bets.

Wow, thank you FortuneJack for your generous goodwill and for crediting me 0.0006 BTC for $23!

You do realize that this type of refund is an absolute no brainer and something that should have been done on the 1st day at the very least, right?

Now let me respond to a few things you just mentioned:

#1 - Let me please remind you that this was the exact notification email that was sent to me 2 hours before the match was about to start:

"Dear EpicChamp,

This is to inform you that   game coefficient  was  changed  from 2.6  to 1.7. Therefore, you  bet was cancelled .
Sorry  for the  inconvenience and wish   you  the best of  luck!


Best Regards,
Customer Service Department
FortuneJack Team"

And since you need to provide a legitimate reason for canceling a bet, in this email you are saying that you canceled my bet because of a drop of odds from "2.6 to 1.7" - this is your reason in this email; in other words, a "change of odds".

Well, not only is this inaccurate, but even if the odds did drop from 2.6 to 1.7, it is not that uncommon in tennis + sports betting and is not a valid explanation for canceling a bet in advance. That is not a significant drop at all and it happens everyday for different sports, yet bets never get canceled because of this. I'm sure you're experienced enough in the gambling industry to know this.

However, later on in this forum you told me something completely different - you claimed that you decided to cancel my bet due to a "technical" or "mechanical" error which was a mistake in the odds, rather than a "change of odds" from 2.6 to 1.7. Well, there is a big difference between these 2 types of mistakes or reasons/explanations, and you did not mention anything about this to me in the email.

The fact is that De Jong was given on your website between 3.0 - 2.6 odds in the first 2-3 hours when the lines went live. So if this was such an accident or technical error, why did you "intentionally" keep slowly dropping his odds by 0.2 units every 30mins for 2-3 hours?

Because if this really was a technical error, you would have paused the line right away and made the necessary change within the first 30mins, instead of 2-3 hours. And since you didn't do that, that tells me this was NOT a "technical" or mechanical error, but rather a common misjudgment mistake on your ends for De Jong's chances of winning the match.

And just now you wrote:

"As the notification email was sent to the user prior to the cancellation, we think there’s nothing left to be paid."

So you think that just because you sent me this unjustifiable email in advance that it is ok to not return my remaining stake on top of not counting my bet as a win?

My biggest problem is WHY did you decide to cancel this bet in the first place? What valid explanation do you have for canceling this bet? A small mistake in odds (which was open for 2-3 hours) is not a valid explanation.

I still do not understand why you decided to cancel my bet and think this is ok. No other gambling site canceled this bet in advance for their users, even for those who bet on De Jong at 2.6+ odds.

You are the only one who canceled this bet in advance - why did you do it? Don't you find it a bit weird and illogical that out of all the gambling sites in the world, you are the ONLY one who canceled this bet for those who bet on De Jong at 2.6+ odds when no one else did?

And at the very least, you need to return my remaining stake of this bet for 0.0672 BTC. That is what was at stake for me and it is a lot of money to just ignore and not get paid for in the case of a bet cancelation.

So there is still a lot left to be paid, not "nothing", and a much bigger amount than just 0.0006 BTC or else I wouldn't be bringing this up on bitcointalk community.

2. You also wrote this about me:

"Additionally, because the player was aware of the mistakenly provided odd (stated within the thread that he was aware of the odds that were offered by other Sportsbooks), it makes us think that we’re dealing with some sort of fraudulent or unlawful use of the services, as stated into the above-attached section of Terms and Conditions."

So first off, now you are saying that instead of canceling my bet because of a change of odds, OR because of a technical error - that you decided to cancel this bet because of potential fraudulent or unlawful activities? What does that even mean? This was a regular challenger match that was played out without anything illegal or fraudulent activities going on. Because if it did, it would have been paused or canceled by every other gambling site too, and it wasn't.

And you did not even officially cancel this match on your website for all your users either - you only canceled it for me because I had slightly more favorable odds and that's it.

How is that ever ok or acceptable to do? You cannot just cancel a bet for 1 person and not for everyone else, that's not how it works and is wrong in many ways.

So please stop claiming a bunch of random & inaccurate explanations for wrongly canceling this bet in advance. It should never have been canceled in the first place, and because the player I bet on won the match then it should be 100% counted as a win.

2nd, I was definetely not aware of any mistaking odds - because at the time I did not believe it was a "mistake". As I explained several times already, I can give you 10+ reasons for why it would make sense for Altamirano (De Jong's opponent) to be the higher favorite for this match. For example, he is older by 5 years, much more experienced at the challenger level, and has a much higher career ranking than De Jong.  

So him being placed at 1.4-1.5 favorite to win and De Jong being 2.6 was not very surprising for me and did not feel like a mistake at all. There are many reasons why this would make perfect sense and at the time I did not think it was a mistake by you or by other gambling sites that also had this match. In fact, during the match the 2nd set was very competitive and could have gone either way if Altamirano would have held his serve at 4-5 to make the score 5-5. At 5-5 he would have had a good chance to win the 2nd set, and then anything could have happened in the 3rd. So him being a 1.4-1.5 favorite & De Jong being at 2.6 is very realistic and understandable. I do not consider this to be a mistake or technical error at all.

And I can guarantee you that this situation has nothing to do with any kind of "fraudulent or unlawful use of services".

3. You also said:

"The above-mentioned scenario showcases the fact that extra winning would not be granted to the user, as the possible winning amount was calculated by coefficient inaccuracy."

First off, this sentence implies that the "extra WINNING" would not be granted. But the STAKE of the bet must be fully granted/returned in the case of a bet cancelation for whatever reason - whether it because of a coefficient inaccuracy, a withdrawal, retirement, bad weather, doesn't matter. Any time a bet gets canceled, you need to return the bettor their full stake of the bet. And you still have not done that.

And I'm sorry, but I had waaaaay more than 0.0006 BTC remaining on my bet as the stake - I had 0.0672 BTC at 2.6 odds, which is equivalent to $2650 right now. It is the biggest bet I ever made online.

You also gave me the option to partially cash out any % of my bet the evening before the match if I wanted to, and I decided to cash out 50% and keep the other 50% open. You gave me this option yourself volunarality according to your own rules (+ the ability to cash out everything in full for 0.238 BTC and profit ~0.1 BTC on the stop if I wanted to), and now you are trying to take this back and keep it to yourself?

How is that fair or ethical in any way?

That's like giving your best friend an expensive gift for their birthday (like a brand new iPhone) with them graciously accepting it, and then a few days later FORCEFULLY taking it away from their hands & keeping it to yourself without their permission or consent (aka stealing) because you both got into some stupid argument. However, the MOMENT you gave your best friend that brand new iPhone, it is now 100% their asset, and taking it away from them in a forceful manner without their permission or consent does not only break all moral, ethical, and social rules - but all FORMAL rules too as it is 100% ILLEGAL and would be considered stealing, where you can be put in jail for that.

That is exactly what you are doing against me in this situation.

I do not agree with this decision at all because it is unfair, unethical, and goes 100% against all my values, beliefs, and morals as a human being and as a very honest & fair person.

If you canceled the bet in advance then you should have returned my full stake right away, but even more than that the bet should have never been canceled to begin with, and I deserve to be rewarded for winning this bet.

And believe me that if my player lost this match, I would have NEVER complained about this or brought it up. I would have moved on as I always do anytime I lose a bet. But this case is different and it is not right for you to cancel a bet like this just because the odds changed, because it happens every day and is beyond my control.

It's just part of the game, someone always gets better and more favorable odds than someone else before the match or game starts. The only time when it makes sense to cancel a bet is if there is a withdrawal in advance, a retirement during the match, or match postponement due to weather.

So please reconsider your decision and do the right & honorable thing in this situation by counting my bet as an honest win and compensating me for the full amount instead of only 0.0006 BTC.

It would be a great sign of your goodwill and reputation, and I would be very grateful for that.

Thank you in advance and I look forward to seeing you do the right thing,

EpicChamp

Hey there,

Here’s another update regarding the case we’re discussing right now.


FortuneJack has been listening to the thoughts of every member of the Bitcointalk community. Since the early years of our existence, our team has been trying to fulfil the needs of the players supporting our gambling platform as a whole. To be equally fair to every member of our gambling tribe, we’ve decided to credit the user operating under the @EpicChamp, the remaining amount of 0.0006 BTC which adds up to the top of the withdrawal he’s already made, totalling the deposit of the bet 0.14 BTC he made on the De Jong - Altmirano tennis challenger match.


Summary for the transactions & refunds from the beginning all over to the end of the event:

- player has made a bet of 0.14 BTC after the deposit had been made
- enabled the cash-out option of 0.1394 BTC (already withdrawn)
- player has just been credited the remaining amount of 0.0006 BTC, totalling the entire bet sum




As the notification email was sent to the user prior the cancellation, we think there’s nothing left to be paid. Additionally, because the player was aware of the mistakenly provided odd (stated within the thread that he was aware of the odds that were offered by other Sportsbooks), it makes us think that we’re dealing with some sort of fraudulent or unlawful use of the services, as stated into the above-attached section of Terms and Conditions.



Despite us not having an obligation to fully refund account’s fund, our team still has decided to offer the entire deposit amount back as goodwill from our side.

As for the complaint regarding us cutting off the remaining stake:



The above-mentioned scenario showcases the fact that extra winning would not be granted to the user, as the possible winning amount was calculated by coefficient inaccuracy. Additionally, in case us not cancelling the bet, we would be still charging account the extra winning before the approval of the requested withdrawal.


In conclusion, FJ strongly believes that the final decision made from our end fully aligns with the community’s intentions as well as indicates the rightful and equal usage of the Terms and Conditions to every single member of the platform, with no exceptions. From this point, we consider this case to be closed. However, we still welcome other members of the community to share their feedback as it’s always the go-to source for us to improve our platform for future use.



-
FortuneJack

This still does not give them any right to do whatever they want and go against their own rules. It's extremely disrespectful, unprofessional, and unethical in every way.

I can counter every single point they make in their T&C about this and it's as if they still wouldn't care or change their decision. And it surely isn't my fault if I play by their rules and should win the bet as I normally would.

They really need to show respect to their own rules, their users, and fair play at all times.

And I can guarantee you that if the player I bet on lost the match, I would have never brought this up and peacefully moved on just like I always do anytime I lose a bet.

But when stuff like this happens and I'm denied one of my biggest betting wins ever, it becomes very frustrating.

If the bet was accepted, it should be paid out in full - according to the odds that were available at that moment.

All bookies heavily protect themselves behind a huge TOC wall which basically allows them to freeze your account, cancel your bets, limit your betting positions - they can do whatever they want.

It is our fault we accept it but it's a good thing we have many to choose from, so when things like these occur you make a mental note and pay attention where you play next time.

^  I have had some bets cancelled..  A couple of times or so with a fiat bookie.  I think it’s standard that they cancel the bet if the line is stale.  But I heard some people get away with it tho.  Esp if the book is weak.

Just read the long post above, and I'm afraid I can't really speak from experience. We've all probably been there somewhat, where a bet we took had odds drop or rise a lot soon after (I personally like taking bets early sometimes like 2 or 3 games ahead and odds of course change if they win/lose their earlier games).

Never had a bet cancelled from odds changes, but it's all in TOC I'm sure.

Hello FortuneJack, I figured I would reach out to you on here since you still haven't responded to my previous post on my main thread about my unfortunate situation with a tennis bet that I made over a month ago on your site.

You replied back to me once and never since, and this is what I had to say after your first reply beyond many other comments in that thread:

(I would like you to respond to me either here or in the original thread after reading ALL my other comments too so that you fully understand what you did wrong in this situation)

I would like to address and say a few things about your response:

A. A technical/mechanical error can mean a lot of different things. To me and much like another user mentioned a few posts earlier, a "technical" error is a completely accidental error that features odds at a ridiculously and completely different value than what they were intended to be initially, due to a simple computer error such as adding another 0, 1, or decimal to the odds.

For example, for a Roger Federer vs Juan Martin Del Potro match, let's say that normally Federer would to be a 1.5 favorite to win the match. But due to a "technical" error, he was posted at 15.0 odds to win instead. And as soon as people saw it, they jumped at these odds right away because the valuation is simply wayyy too good - because how can Roger Federer be such a huge "underdog" against Del Potro?!

But because it was a truly honest mistake and a complete "technical" error, the bookmaker *could* have the right to cancel the bet in advance and RETURN THE FULL STAKE to everyone who made the bet. Although EVEN in this case of a technical error, as the previous person mentioned above, when a case like this was taken to court - the bookmaker lost the legal case and was forced to pay millions of dollars to everyone who got into this bet at the ridiculously high valuation odds they posted due to their technical error.

But if this kind of mistake happened in my favor, then I would have no problem accepting it as an honest mistake from your end and would be totally fine with my bet being canceled prior to the match, as long as you RETURNED MY REMAINING STAKE.

HOWEVER, I would NOT consider my situation to be a "technical" error, because although there was a difference in odds from what they were at initially to what they changed to later, this was not a technical error and instead more of a regular odd-changing scenario due to various other reasons or factors. So this was more of an initial judgment error/mistake and a regular case of a change of odds, instead of a "technical' or 'mechanical" error.

And since Altamirano is a pretty good player who is much older and a lot more experienced at the challenger level than De Jong and there isn't a huge gap between their rankings, I was not completely surprised that he was originally chosen to be the favorite player to win this match considering this information. Him winning at 1.4-1.5 odds and De Jong being at 2.6 is not that unreasonable or wrong because there are 10+ different reasons and factors I can say to support and back up these odds as well.

So please don't say that this was a technical error because it really wasn't, you simply misjudged and/or underestimated De Jong's potential to win the match in the beginning, and then decided to change the odds after realizing this by making him a much bigger favorite to win.

And then of course you wanted to cover yourself and minimize your risk + avoid potentially losing a fairly big bet like this, so you decided to cancel my bet right before the match was about to start without even RETURNING my remaining stake!

This is not how it works and is wrong & unethical in many ways, and you know it. Anytime there is a regular change of odds, a bet cannot be canceled and should be played out normally just like any other bet.

B. In this post you even claim yourself that odds changed from 2.6 to 1.2-1.3 - but that is NOT what you claimed in the email that you sent me when you decided to cancel my bet. In the email you wrote that the odds dropped from 2.6 to "1.7", and that THAT was the reason why you decided to cancel this bet - the change of odds from 2.6 to 1.7 was your reasoning. And there is a big difference between a simple change of odds (as odds change all the time) and a technical error, and in your email you did not mention anything about it being a technical error.

So that reasoning is completely wrong because De Jong was NEVER given 1.7 odds of winning this match. You just made this number out of thin air and canceled my bet without a valid or accurate reason. Because as I said above, you did not mention anything about there being a "technical" or "mechanical" error or anything else besides the change of odds between 2.6 to 1.7 (which in itself is not that significant, nor is uncommon to happen in tennis or other sports, where bets never get canceled because of this), and yet now you are claiming something different.

Also, even if the odds DID somehow drop from 2.6 to 1.7 - that is not such a significant difference to a point of canceling the entire bet before a match is about to start. In the past, there have been MUCH greater changes of odds for different matches & sports, and yet people's bets were never canceled by the bookmaker before the match was about to start because of that because that would be against the rules. So canceling a bet for such a small change of odds does not make any logical sense and is not allowed.

So for that kind of lame & inaccurate reasoning (saying it changed to 1.7 when it never did), you have no right to cancel my bet ON TOP of a regular situation of a change of odds, even if it wasn't 1.7.

C. Your reasoning for not returning my remaining open stake for 0.067 BTC or ~0.1 BTC is the following:

"The remaining stake and a possible winning amount were not credited to the player, as both of the events arise right after classifying the case under the technical/mechanical fault, meaning that odds were mistakenly sent out from betradar."

First off, it's funny how you keep pointing fingers and blaming "betradar" multiple times for "mistakingly" giving you the wrong odds, and yet refuse to take ANY responsibility YOURSELF for not verifying those odds BEFORE officially posting them on your webssite. I can care less about who and how you get your odds from, or who the heck your odd provider is - because it doesn't matter. You must always verfiy every odd yourself before posting it on your site, and need to take full and 100% responsibility for every single bet you officially post on for your users to bet with, and not blame or point fingers at someone else for giving you the wrong odds.

That is such a lame and terrible excuse for trying to justify why you posted the odds at 2.6 (and also 2.8 + 3.0 an hour before) instead of 1.2-1.3 right away.

I really don't care about how or why you decided to do that, and it is not my fault that you made it official and gave me and other people on FortuneJack the opportunity to bet on De Jong at 2.6 odds at that given time.

If you are not the one coming up with the odds, you should always do your own due diligence and double-check every odd for every match, before officially posting it on your website.

Yet instead of taking full responsibility for it and owning up for your mistake by honoring my bet and counting it as a win, you are purposely trying to prevent me from winning the bet for 0.1746 BTC by unjustly canceling my bet right before the match was about to start to minimize YOUR risk of losing this bet.

And on top of that, you are also refusing to return my remaining stake back for your own benefit - which on the face value is 0.067 BTC, but really should be ~0.1 BTC because you gave me the option to cash out my bet in FULL the day before for 0.238 BTC for a profit of nearly ~0.1  BTC. So in essence, after my partial cashout from the day before, I was at the risk of losing 0.1 BTC for a chance to win 0.1746 BTC which I rightly and 100% deserve to win. And in the case of a cancelation, you NEED to return back my remainder take.

You also said that the "Bet was canceled before it was being played, so we don’t think it’s fair to be talking about the fact of receiving the remaining amount + the possible win."

So tell me then - in what world IS IT fair or makes any sense for an online gambling site to cancel a match + a person's bet for whatever reason, and then NOT return to that person their remaining stake of that bet?!

Anytime a match is canceled, whether it is due to a walkover, retirement, weather conditions, or because of situations like COVID - the stake of the bet is ALWAYS returned to the bettor. NEVER in a million years has a bet been canceled and the person's stake was kept to the gambling site, it has never happened to me or ANY of my friends before who have been gambling for 10+ years.

This is a complete no-brainer & non-negotiable, and should have been done right away AS SOON as you canceled my bet and sent me that email. I still cannot believe I have to explain this to you because even a 10-year-old kid would understand why you need to return back my stake if you decide to cancel the bet. And the fact that I "partially" cashed out the day before, is completely irrelevant and has NOTHING to do with how much was remaining at stake to win this bet at 2.6 odds. Which again, as I said was a LARGE amount of 0.067 BTC at face value, and 0.1 BTC at a real value ($2300 and $3300 respectively).

The only scenario or situation where this would be 100% ok and make perfect sense, is if the match was played out in full without any cancellations, and the player who I bet on ended up losing it. But if you're going to cancel the bet in advance, you NEED to return the right stake amount which is this case should be ~0.1 BTC or at least 0.067 BTC. And this should have been done right away on that day.

D. Here is another point I want to bring up that I asked in my previous post about why I believe this bet should not be cancelled and count as a win:

What exactly happened to all the bets for everyone on FortuneJack who bet on De Jong to win the match AFTER the odds changed when he was at around 1.30 to win?

Did you also send all these people an email 2 hours before the match was about to start, saying that you decided to cancel it? And then did not return them their stake at the time?

I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt it. Otherwise, people would be completely shocked if this happened and it wouldn't make any sense because at that time, the odds were barely changing or moving as he always remained a big favorite to win between 1.2-1.3 odds.

And since you haven't canceled this bet for other people who bet on De Jong between 1.2-1.3 odds, how is it fair or right that for 1 group of people the bet for the same match gets canceled, and for another group it remains active/open before AND during the match?

Because if I remember correctly, you also had LIVE PLAY available for this match on your website for those who wanted to bet on it during the match. This means you haven't officially canceled this bet or match for everyone on FortuneJack.

This is completely ridiculous because you are not allowed to do this and it goes against all official and ethical rules.

So it's either you cancel the bet for EVERYONE, or you cancel for NO ONE. And in situations like these where there is only a change of odds, match & bet cancelations should never occur.

And if you're not going to cancel this for everyone (which you didn't), you also have no right to cancel this bet or match ONLY for me in advance either.

Due to this and all other reasons I mentioned previously, I 100% deserve to win this bet in full for 0.174 BTC. Your reasoning is very inaccurate and does not make much sense at all, to me and to other people on this forum either.

So I would like you to honor your bets + fair play, and take full responsibility for opening this bet at 2.6 odds even if it was a mistake on your end, and reward me and anyone else who also bet on De Jong at 2.6+ odds the full win.

I look forward to seeing you do the right thing in this situation and showing integrity & good morals in the way you run your business. Not only would I personally appreciate it, but I am sure everyone else here would as well - thanks in advance!

Cheers,

EpicChamp

I do feel like it is not really that much like a "give away" neither, if I have to do a 40x that is just a way to lose my money anyway. If I gamble with my money, there is a big chance I can lose it, and if I can gamble 40 times my deposit there is a huge chance I could lose it all at the same time, which means it is going to be very risky to do that. You want to see a luck?

Well if you can gamble on 98% chance to win, you will get to lose just twice in 100 tries, which means once every 50 tries, so if you can do that and get 40 wins in a row you might get lucky. But do you really need something like that? It is promotion and the "promotion" is giving you "free" money, and in return takes all of your money. Which is why I do not think that it worths anything worthwhile, I just assume that if there is a deposit bonus, I decline it whenever I can, it just doesn't worth it.

40x is incredible amount to look at in most circumstances but when it comes to crypto gambling,,, it becomes a lot more possible especially with low house edge, combined with low payout possibilities and many numbers of decimal places. Not many casinos allow this but FJ dice does have quite a low minimum bet on satoshi and at 1% house edge you could do 40x quite easily with a reasonable bankroll. Problem as you say is the slots wagering!

Depend on your skill luck, for example, and I can do 40x without a problem.
It's not complaining about free stuff as there was no free stuff!

Anyway, I just want to inform the users: wager 41x and deposit 5mBTC -> not a no deposit bonus.

Okay, that's it, I better go before the forum guard dog sniffing my ass. Bye~

If you want to play something free, you can suffer a slight loss with a little bad luck. If you were to win 50-50, you might not be able to clear the bonus with return in the long run. I would therefore prefer a bonus on sports betting, so that you can bet a little more based on statistics.

ya.ya.yo!

Well, it can go either way.  We know the slot result is random, and he can possibly win during those wagering requirements.  The worst thing he can get is that he will suffer a 20% to 60% loss to meet the 1x wagering requirement but that would be very unlucky of him.  He just needs to choose a medium volatile game to minimize his losses.

But those complain is reasonable when there is hidden costly and tough conditions related to those free things. In this case the condition wasn't hidden but the user wasn't aware of it before. So after completing 40× wagering requirements with the bonus money, he might feel despair by knowing about another condition to get the bonus balance in main account. In most of the case you will see a valid reason when many people complain about free things.

Agree with you, wagering in slots game is never been easy. By the way, FortuneJack have indicated all kind of promotion details in their bonus terms and conditions. And the above requirement is at number ‘9’ in their No Deposit Bonuses details. Check their bonus T&C page.

it's just an opinion but that 0.005 to be wagered on slots really a difficult to do even if it's a 1x. i'm not playing on fortunejack for a months now i just want to ask was this kind of promotion indicated on their terms and condition?