Topic: FORTUNEJACK.COM |Deposit 777 play with 1777 mBTC |Live Casino, Slots, Betting - page 149. (Read 465252 times)

I kinda agree with you here. I never said companies should payout odds errors because the community wants it. I said I feel they should do it because in my view, you either run a legitimate business or you do not run a business at all. Bookies spend millions of dollars to get the odds right - to get the margins exactly where they want them to lure us in and make the odds look better than they are. That's their business, so I also feel that they should not hide themselves behind TOC when they get it wrong. They should pay out, not just FJ, any bookie that has made a mistake. Why? Because we're not in kindergarden and because that's how businesses should be run. If I put my apartments on Booking.com for 15 instead of 150 dollars, I would not be able to cancel it and say 'sorry'.

Also, I really did not wish to put a precedent of any sort. Both sides were saying the vast majority of the community agreed with them so I felt it might be a good way to test how we breathe. I never wanted it to be a public poll (nor anonymous for that matter).

As I said, I appreciate the 25% offer - but the REAL loss for me is not just a stake of 0.067 BTC - but rather a winning amount of 0.174 BTC, which as of now is equivalent to $5,500 USD. It's even more surprising because while to me this is quite a lot of money, for them it's a fraction of how much they make each day, and I really don't see why they're refusing to pay my deserved win with so much resistance, when they know themselves very well that what they did against me is wrong & unethical.

It is far from "nonsense" because thousands of dollars are on the line, not a couple dozen or even a couple hundred.

Also as I mentioned, that email from betrader was sent on December 31st, more than a month after the match ended, at which point they can write & say whatever they want as an excuse. So to me, that screenshot does not justify the bet cancelation because it needed to have been sent on the day of (November 24th), not a month later.

I have a pretty good feeling that no email was sent to them by Betrader that day at all. Instead, FJ noticed this change of odds themselves and then manually decided to go and cancel this bet (without any "commands") because they realized that the odds suddenly changed against them; at which point they then waited 7 hours to cancel my bet instead of doing it right away. Therefore, I doubt that they received any commands from betrader to void this bet on that day, and the evidence to back this up is in the date of when the email they showed was sent to them.

Yes, let's play with the idea that you're right EpicChamp (you're not). This would mean that FJ goes through all of this, fabricating evidence (like the email from betradar) and spends all of this time on your absolute nonsense, for what? To screw over one player for ~0.06BTC? If you actually take a moment to look at how insane this all sounds - maybe you'd come to the realization that sometimes shit happens and in this particular case FJ has even offered you an "out" in the form of 25% of your deposit - something that is more than fair as if it were me I'd probably just tell you to bugger off.

The odds were very reasonable at the time and far from a "technical error". They can claim that it was as a poor excuse for canceling my bet (when it was universally the same across all bookies), but that's just their opinion, especially because they never claimed or stated that there was a technical error in my bet cancelation email as their reasoning for canceling my bet, and this is a fact. If they knew it was a technical error, they should have explicitly stated that in the email, which they didn't. And even to this day, I still don't understand why De Jong ended up dropping below 1.7, but it's not up to me to decide the odds.

The point is that this was not a clear or obvious mistake as they claimed it is, and the odds were not ridiculously outside the "competitive" range (1.3-3.0) either, since there wasn't an "obvious" favorite to win this match.

Therefore, this bet should not have been canceled in the first place, much like NO other reputable & respected bookmaker canceled it for their users on that day either.

Geez, I wonder why not? Could it be that MAYBE it wasn't a technical error after all? (But rather a simple change/swing of odds instead, exactly as they claimed it was in the email?)

Jesus christ man, would you sue the local convenient store if their lottery machine were malfunctioning and your ticket would have won $1mil that night? You're really on one with this and it's fucking insane.

YOU HAVE LOST NOTHING. Wake the fuck up and come back to reality, please.

I am not saying the same thing, I'm saying something different if you read it carefully.

My main point is that if FJ doesn't think it's fair to them or that they're in the wrong, and are blaming Betrader for everything that happened, then Betrader should be the one to pay for my bet in full instead of FJ by this logic.

Has FJ contacted them to talk about it and explain what happened + why they need to pay for their mistake and honor my bet? I highly doubt it, which is why I brought it up.

But in no way is this right for either FortuneJack OR Betrader to get away with this situation without owning up to a big mistake that was made on their end which has been shoved down to me, when I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

How is it fair to ME to have to pay for THEIR mistake?

Right now I feel completely cheated, and I'm extremely disappointed at how FJ is behaving & dealing with this situation considering a mistake was made on their end that cost me thousands of dollars in winnings. And it's really sad that they're not willing to fully own up to it and honor my bet as a full win when they know it's the right thing to do.

If odds really flipped by technical glitch, normally books, void the bet before start of the game or mail the user to give option of accepting new odds or void the bet. But here is situation is really different because of 50% cashout.

@FortuneJack was odds really wrong or it reduced continuously because of betting volume? If it was really wrong than you can void the bet technically even after user cashout the bet and revert the excess fund. But if  it was reduced so much because of betting volume than, EpicChamp deserve the that half bet stake back. Normally books offer goodwill gesture bonus in % of bet that was disputed, I saw you offered him 25% bonus, I think it's good if odds was really wrong. But if odds reduces because of betting volume than EpicChamp is right that his half bet must be refund.

Just 2 cent from my side.

^ If you still think you treated unfair then you can just go for a complaint site like mentioned above yours and odd errors are not responsible to be paid by the sportbook is what I understand but keep saying the same thing is not going to change anything.

Once again, I appreciate the 25% offer - but if FortuneJack keeps blaming Betrader for what happened, then Betrader should be the ones paying for this mistake instead.

The bottom line is that MANY mistakes were made on their end, and one of them needs to own up to their mistakes rather than get away with it without facing any consequences for their wrongdoings as if it's no big deal or nothing happened. The "mistake" was also universal and it wasn't just FJ who had these odds on their site, yet all other major bookies paid out the winnings to users in full (assuming they bet on De Jong) and didn't cancel this bet to anyone.

If FortuneJack doesn't want to do it because they feel like it wasn't their fault, then Betrader should pay for my winning bet instead. Why can't they pay out of their own pocket if they are clearly in the wrong?

I really don't care who does it, but one of them should take responsibility for what happened and award my winning bet because this bet should never have been canceled in the first place, especially considering how late of a cancelation it was. (It took FJ 7 hours after my partial cashout to notify me that they decided the cancel my bet, when they could + should have easily done it right away if it was such a clear & obvious mistake)

Bookies cannot do whatever they want and must be held accountable to high standards in the industry & conduct fair play at all times for their users.

Why is that so hard to understand and accept?

It's also not like this was an extreme situation either where my player was mistakingly posted at 5.0+ odds by complete accident for a very brief period of time (a few mins), where I managed to quickly catch it and deliberately made a big bet knowing 100% it was the wrong odds - this doesn't take a genius to figure out and it was nothing like that in my situation.

I would personally never take advantage of such an obvious mistake, and I believe the match I bet on was very even without any clear favorites going into it. Therefore, the odds ranging between 1.3-3.0 is very reasonable and nothing abnormal, especially at the challenger level where upsets happen all the time.

So I would greatly appreciate it if one of you does the right thing and honors my bet in full, because that is how it truly should be and I 100% deserve to win it.

Quoting people out of context should not be used to strengthen your point.


I don't think this is good precedent to set - you shouldn't have to payout odds errors (again assuming it was a valid error) just because the community (which is likely going to be player biased since people generally don't know all that much) thinks you should. It might be worth asking EpicChamp if they're interested in independent mediation, perhaps with a site like SBR that knows what they're doing. My *guess* is that they'd end up siding with FJ.

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Just have published the poll for the community.

It will be active till the weekend - as it's quite crucial for us to have it closed as soon as possible.

Kindly asking everyone to participate - once the voting is finished, we will be immediately taking the action.


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Team FJ

If you are gauging the community's opinion, why don't you just make a poll? Ask all the users that are interested in this case and are familiar with it (if they want to participate) and you'll have a clearer picture.

If you decide to go that way, options should be something in the line of:
1. Player's bet should be paid out in full
2. Player's stake should be returned
3. 25% of the initial deposit is a really fair offer
4. FJ does not owe anything to the player

This should not be binding, of course. But it can help both sides to see towards what community gravitates and maybe it will help both sides to deal with the situation a bit differently.

It should be transparent, of course. Maybe members sending PM's with their votes to both EpicChamp and FortuneJack.

This has been dragging on for a while already, I agree it's time to close it somehow.

On the particular date we are talking about 1 ETH = 0.032BTC means 4.25ETH = 0.135BTC approx

So you actually withdrawn all the amount left in your balance and the remaining balance showed was actually an error and it wasn't your BTC, are you clear now?

The cancelled your bet which is not supposed to happen but on rare occasions it is inevitable and you missed the bet actually but didn't lost, that is how you need to take this, better you take that 25% offer and get into a peace state for a while.

Don't worry, I am going to end this discussion soon myself as it's taking a big toll and lot of mental energy out of me and which is extremely frustrating. To save time you can also skim through it quickly or read through the bold phrases.

Honestly I'm usually never like this, but I just can't believe that they're literally taking away $5,500 in BTC away from me because they made some stupid mistake or misjudgment on THEIR end that has NOTHING to do with me on a match that was very even, and think this is right or ok to do. They even have the audacity to not return my leftover stake too, to me this is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable behavior.

I thought for once I can trust a crypto betting site that has been around long enough for many years, but I guess I cannot even do that at this point either (esp not with any big bets).

If FortuneJack doesn't change their decision and refuses to do the right & honorable thing in this situation which 80%+ of members all agree with also - it will reveal a lot about who they really are and their true color. Absolute greed and deception at its finest.

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Hey @doomloop, thanks for showing your interest in this case.

We've already made the decision based onto the proofs provided both in this and another thread opened by EpicChamp.

None of the stake coming from the player's funds has been kept on our side. The first one made as a bet is already refunded and withdrawn to his wallet (accepted by the OP) and the second one left as a bet (coming from the technical/odd mistake - not from the deposit) has been annulled as shown into the screenshots.

Let me know if there's anything I can add to clear things up.


UPDATE:

25% of the initial deposit as a bonus is still open for the player to be accepted.

@epicchamp
I think you should give them some time. Do not be worried about fortunejack doing anything shady because this place has been around for over 7 years now and they have been doing perfectly fine in profits so they do not need to steal 0.06 from anyone, that is the amount of money they earn in an hour so there is no need for them to ruin their reputation over money they could make easily with any bet. That means two things, either you are going to get your money back if you are right but you would be getting it a bit late so there is really no rush.

Or you have done something that is against the rules that you are not aware of (or are aware of) and that is why they cancelled your bet and kept your money. The only way to make sure we can know whats going on would be to allow fortunejack to explain themselves, when they do I have 100% trust that they will say something that will make sense.

My sincere advice to EpicChamp is that these consecutive walls of text regarding your opinion won't help you. Not many have the patience to read through such long walls of text and you mostly keep reiterating the same point again and again.

Many gamblers like me have pointed out that FJ's handling of this mess was in some ways unethical, but they are willing to fix their mistake and you are only losing a portion of your winnings which is why moving on is the best option for you.

Just like some posters above, this is my last piece of advice to you. I hope FJ never repeats this mistake ever again.

Another thing I'd like to share once again for more "social" proof is the opinion of the majority of members on this forum and what they think about this situation. Here is what everyone had to say:

1. nutildah (Legendary Member) said: "Honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do."

2. Royse777 (Legendary Member) said: "I don't like this practice of they can do whatever they want. It's like I make up some reasons or even do not give any reason because there are no reason at all. Because I have the terms and conditions, I can have anyone's money anytime. No, I can not. When you cancel a bet you return the stake and keep the winning (if it was won).

So considering the mistake that happened from your provider, considering the communication time, considering the partial cashing out before the email sent, - you owe the OP 0.067 BTC which was his stake by that time after you informed him. This is what I personally think will be a fair ending."

3. LEVSKI7 (Jr. Member) said: "Brutal deception of fortunejack. They have no right to cancel a bet except in case of a technical error and there is a drop of the odds all the time and people play for cashout in beta and other sites."

4. BlackFor3st (Hero Member) said: "I think Fortunejack does have all the rights to cancel a bet here" But he never mentioned that he also "thinks" that it's ok or right for you to keep the remaining stake as well upon the bet cancelation.

5. Beparanf (Hero Member) said: "They already admit their fault by giving OP the option for cash out with profit a night before the game. They are the one who gave a complimentary option just to continue the game knowing there's an error in the odds. I hope FJ will reconsider your case."

6. Xavofat (Hero Member) said: "Your explanation is clear and strong. If the email you quoted here is true then I really don't understand how odd's 1.7 is happened! The validity of that's email is not fair enough by OddsPortal's review. I hope you will get back your money"

7. spyrosc200 said: This story has 2 thinks to examine:

1) Odds are dropping everyday. This is a fact. Bookies have absolute no reason to void a bet cause odds drop from 2.30 to 1.70, from 2.30 to 1.30 etc. Simply there are dozens of such cases every day [as you can see]: https://www.oddsportal.com/dropping-odds/ | None of the games listed above is going to be voided from any fair bookmaker.

2) The big question in your case imo is if the odds set from Fortjunejack was an obvious error? If odds were obvious error, then imo they can void this bet. However, if Fortunejack odds were in line with all other bookies at the time you took the bet, then how can Forjunejack claim that they had wrong odds when the whole bookies worldwide had same odds as Forjunejack?

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably canceled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them. I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

9. roosbit said: "IMO FJs mistake should not be passed onto its players, they should take the hit and save face...just my 2cents!"

10. cryptofrka (Hero Member) said: "If the bet was accepted, it should be honored + paid out in full - according to the odds that were available at that moment. Morally - FJ is 100% wrong from the start. As bookies, they have to be responsible for the odds they are offering. His bet should be paid out in full - all the bets that are accepted on all the betting platforms should. For me this is simply not acceptable. It is a business, OP did lose part of his effective balance.

As a community we should expect the industry's leaders (such as FJ) to keep high standards of transparency, fairness and even morality. I do not agree with it at all, I think it is not appropriate behavior and I think it is borderline a criminal act.

What FJ should not be able to do in any case whatsoever is to keep his stake for themselves. That is a criminal act for sure and it can be branded as theft, pure and simple. As a bare minimum, the stake must be returned to the player."

Finally, he said "[FortuneJack} made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all. I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well."

11. slaman29 (Sr. Member) said: "Never had a bet canceled from odds changes"

12. shield132 (Hero Member) said: "If bet was made hours earlier before the match and if the bet was canceled immediately (it wasn't), then there is nothing wrong with FJ, otherwise I wouldn't like that. And if your partner did something wrong, users shouldn't [have to] pay for it. Everything comes down to how ethical you are."

13. Haunebu (Hero Member) said: "I agree that it is unethical and FJ have faced several issues like this in recent times"

14. serjent05 (Legendary Member) said: "EpicChamp indeed has some BTC to refund on that canceled bet, I don't know why FJ can't see this stuff. If the record of FJ tallies EpicChamp's story, he then will have no problem claiming those BTC for refunds." He also confirmed this by saying that "If what you are saying is true then I agree that you deserve to claim your remaining stake"

15. RokokGudangGaram (Full Member) said: "This is not a proper cancellation especially if your bet has been accepted already, they can cancel the game if in case you haven't bet yet or the game hasn't started yet. It is not a proper way to handle your winnings especially if you successfully make your bet."

16. DreamerBT (Jr. Member) said: "Just because you know for your OWN bugs that doesn't mean the players know or should know it. Your website BUGS is YOUR problem not the players itself."

17. Even Hhampuz (Legendary Member) who is one of the only people who for the most part seems to agree with you, said this: "It's different when they cancel the bet quickly and long before the game is played. " - which did not happen because it was NOT canceled quickly at all. It was super late and at the time I wasn't even aware of it, that's how late it was.

That's like 15-17 members out of ~20 who all share the same viewpoint on this matter and agree that what you are doing is morally & ethically wrong, and that you should have never canceled this bet in the 1st place. And if it hadn't been canceled, I would have won the bet for 0.174 BTC fair & square as I should.

This is not just MY opinion, but 15+ more members here (a lot of which are Hero or Legendary status too as you asked yourself) all agree with me and believe the same thing.

As further proof, I can try & upload some screenshots if you'd like of other betting sites who featured this match and honored it as a win for those who bet on De Jong.

^ I for one appreciate what you're trying to do (if it's about educating and awareness for others) but at the same time, could we ask that you move the discussion to a separate thread in Reputation subforum anyway?

I mean, I like FortuneJack and I don't spend all my days talking about how good they are here every day, and the same for others, it would be considered spamming. I think we have to respect that this is not the right place to discuss:)

Yes I am clarifying what actually happened to members who are not 100% sure.

I am also repeating some things because you never address or respond to them, like why did you not mention anything about a technical error in the email? The only thing you wrote to me is that you canceled my bet because of a drop of 2.6 to 1.7 odds and that's it. And I'm sorry but that's not a valid enough reason to cancel a bet because odds change all the time, and it's not that uncommon for a player to drop from 2.6 to 1.7. I'm sure you're experienced enough in the gambling industry to know this.

Even if there was a mistake on your end, it is not my fault and I should not be blamed & penalized for this and lose thousands of dollars because of that. It is 100% on you because you make these odds official, and if you don't verify these odds before posting them on your website and then they keep gradually dropping them over 2-3 hours (which is an extremely long time to be considered an accident), then you are just as responsible for this just as much as betrader.

It's not like I quickly & purposely took advantage of insane odds of like 5.0-10.0 that were available for 1-2 mins that then quickly changed since they were obviously wrong, and it's also not like the player I bet on was a huge favorite in this match. A technical error by definition is an obvious error that was made completely by accident and that cannot be justified in any way. But in this case that is simply not true because there was no clear favorite in this match and I can give you many reasons why De Jong's opponent could be the favorite instead of him.

I also cannot count how many times I've seen players drop from 2-3.0 odds to below 1.5 odds in tennis within 12 hours - it happens every week (esp at the smaller events) and it's the nature of sports betting. But the bet should not be canceled because of this, which is why I 100% believe I deserve to win this bet in full.

It is the right thing to do and even if you made a mistake, it's not my fault and you should own up to it and honor this bet as a win or at least return my stake back.

To me making a bet is like making a purchase at the store. You exchange money for an item and both parties agree to a set $$ amount. After you leave the store you enjoy the item and the store keeps the money and that's the deal. But if this item turns out to be defective or there's something wrong with it then the person will come back to the store and ONLY then exchange it and get a refund. But only if there is something wrong with the product (in this case the tennis match, such as a retirement or walkover or poor weather) - not because of the price they paid. If the store sold it for the wrong price then it's 100% their fault, whether it is the cashier's fault or manager's fault or someone else it doesn't matter, it's not the customer's fault they were quoted a better price/bargain and they deserve to keep their item for price they paid. Just like another Hero member mentioned in regards to what happened with Amazon recently, when a lot of things became a lot cheaper than usual, but Amazon still rewarded them to users for the lower prices instead of canceling all of people's orders.

It is simply the right & honorable thing to do, and the majority of the members agree with me on this as well.

OR it's also like giving your best friend an expensive gift for their birthday (like a brand new iPhone) with them graciously accepting it, and then a few days later FORCEFULLY taking it away from their hands & keeping it to yourself without their permission or consent (aka stealing) because you both got into some stupid argument or you realize you were not allowed to give it away for some reason, doesn't matter. However, the MOMENT you gave your best friend that brand new iPhone, it is now 100% their asset, and taking it away from them in a forceful manner without their permission or consent does not only break all moral, ethical, and social rules - but all FORMAL rules too as it is 100% ILLEGAL and would be considered stealing, where you can be put in jail for that.

That's basically what you're doing against me. And in fact, as some members posted here earlier, when cases like these were taken to court, they always won their case (even at much more extreme odds than in my case here) - because in the eyes of the LAW, once you officially post odds for a game on your website and someone bets on it, it is accepted at face value for what it is at the time and cannot be overturned unless there is something wrong with the game or match itself, NOT because the odds may have changed or been posted incorrectly. That is the LAW and you should be experienced enough to know this to be true.

Also, your "fact" from an email by betrader was sent to you on December 31st, 2020 when the match took place on Nov 24th. 1 month later betrader can write and say whatever they want and use that as an excuse for canceling this bet. But it needed to have been sent on the
day of the match, not 1month+ later where they can make up whatever they want to make it seem legitimate.

Other than that and the screenshots you showed in your earlier post where you proved I did not get my 0.067 BTC stake back, you have no legitimate proof of anything else. And please tell me exactly what you want me to prove and what kind of evidence you want me to show the community to support my argument for why this bet should not have been canceled, and I'll be happy to provide it.

And I have to end on the note that once again, no other bookie (at least amongst the biggest ones) has canceled their match for their users, and rewarded all those who be on De Jong. So if everyone is counting this bet per usual despite the change of odds, and you're the only 1 who ISN'T - then you are clearly in the wrong and I'm sure most members here agree on that as well. Not only is it extremely rude and disrespectful towards me, but it makes you look really bad as well because you're not living up to industry standards as a top gambling site who's been around for many years.

It is really sad and a real shame to see that you care more about small fractions of a bitcoin than you do about your reputation, character, integrity, and dignity as a top (crypto) betting site.