Topic: FORTUNEJACK.COM |Deposit 777 play with 1777 mBTC |Live Casino, Slots, Betting - page 150. (Read 465252 times)

Is there any reason why you've been saying the same all the time since the beginning of the conversation?

The bug within the system mistakenly gave you the option of cashing out. At that exact moment, our team along with the representatives of the betradar was partially aware of the technical error happening in the back end. So you stating the fact that you could instantly withdraw the full amount of the stake doesn't make sense. You could have cashed it our but there was no possible chance of withdrawing it from the account to the personal wallet as the case was still under investigation. The reason why the fraud department accepted the partial cashout was that it was the same as the first deposit you made from your end and we would have no legal right to prevent you from withdrawing it.

We've already provided all the proofs that are essential for closing this case down including the transaction history and email showcasing that there was a technical error within the provider and FortuneJack. All the assumptions you make around these topics don't matter cause they're just the point of views of yours, not the facts supported by any data or a piece of evidence.

Please stop accusing us of burglary - it's the probably the last time we kindly ask you to do so. Many of the community members will agree with the fact that no single player has the right of doing it so unless evidence is clearly explained and supported by everyone.

If you don't stop spamming the thread without any context, pretending to be backed by the community members (quoting their honest feedback without context) without any proofs attached, we will have to write the negative feedback (which you already did on our profile without any evidence) or suggest opening a red flag on your account. Kindly asking to reconsider the way you communicate otherwise there will be no option for us to go for.

The truth has already been said and been supported by the majority of the community members.

We're not going to change the decision in any way possible.

Once again kindly suggesting to stop spamming and stop the convo as it will not affect an already approved decision.

Feel free to take 25% of the deposit back, if not there's nothing to talk about.

We're stepping out and no longer going to respond to this case as it does shift a situation as long as community moderators or notable members of the community ask us for extra proofs to add along with the ones that are already posted.


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Team FJ

No, I did not get it in my wallet so I could never have withdrawn it. I only withdrew the 50% partial cashout that I took out myself for 0.13974 BTC. This means that the remaining ~0.14 BTC (disguised as a stake of 0.0672 BTC @ 2.6 odds) was left open for this match to be played out.

I could have also cashed out in full for 0.2687 BTC and instantly profited ~0.13 BTC, but I decided to let the other 50% play out for the match at better returns (2.6 vs ~2.1) assuming the player who I bet on wins the match.

It is not my fault that they themselves gave me this option and allowed me to do this, and I should not be losing thousands of dollars because of their "mistake". Especially because at this point, it was 100% within their control because it's their site, and they decided to give me this option.

Many other sites never allow any partial cashouts to be made after placing a bet (like Cloudbet or Nitrogen for example), so while they can blame betrader for giving them the "wrong" odds initially, they cannot blame them for giving me this option to cashout for the amounts I mentioned on their site.

Therefore, FortuneJack needs to take full responsibility for giving me this option and at the very least, return my stake in full if they decided to cancel my bet.

(And quite frankly, this shouldn't even be the main discussion because my whole point is that my bet should never have been canceled in the 1st place, as 80%+ of members here agree with me as well - but this is a non-negotiable)

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1. If you knew this was such a clear bug & technical error, why did you not write it in the bet cancellation email? In the email, you only stated that you canceled the bet because odds dropped from 2.6 to 1.7 - nothing about a technical error was mentioned by you.

This is a reasonable change of odds that happens quite a lot in many sports due to various reasons & factors. So if this was your main reason, then that's what you should have explained in the email, but you didn't. And now you are changing your reasoning and making something else up that doesn't match or align with what you wrote to me originally.  

2. Let me remind you once again that according to the option you've voluntarily given me, I could have easily & instantly withdrawn 0.268 BTC with a click of a button the night before the match. Had I done that, the extra ~0.13 BTC would have came out of your pocket and you were willingly giving it away had I taken you up on that offer. So please don't say that you cannot issue my 0.067 BTC back when at the time, you were willing to instantly issue me up to 0.268 BTC if I decided to cash out my bet in full.

3. Every other gambling site had a "similar" situation with the exact same match on the same day, and all of them rewarded all their users their winnings if they bet on De Jong, and no bets were canceled for anyone in this match.

Don't you find it very strange that you are the only bookie that decided to cancel this bet, ONLY for those who bet on him at 2.6+ odds (and not for others, which is not allowed to do since it has to be universal for everyone), right before the match was about to start? Do you think this is fair or normal in any way? Because I have NEVER seen or heard this ever happen before.

There is a reason no other bookie canceled it for their users, because it doesn't make any sense and is not the user's fault if a "mistake" was made on the bookie's side. I do not believe this was a technical error at all, especially when all other bookies had exactly the same odds at the same exact time as you - meaning it was a universal decision amongst all bookies and there was no "obvious" or clear mistake by anyone at all.

You then made it official and kept it live on your site for 2-3 hours which is a very long time. If this really was such an obvious mistake you would not have kept it at these odds for this long, and would have changed odds right away (as it is always done when there is a technical error), but you didn't. Instead, you kept slowly dropping it without any major changes. This doesn't sound anything like a technical error, like one where a player who is a clear favorite was accidentally posted at 5.0+ when he was intended to be under 1.2 (or something of such nature).

I also cannot count the number of times I thought play A is going to beat player B because in my eyes he was the better player, and bookies made player A a smaller favorite at 3.0+ odds, which I have bet on many times in the past where sometimes odds stayed the same and sometimes there was a big change in odds - but my bet was NEVER canceled because the odds changed.

4. As I mentioned previously, this case is no different to a situation where you bet let's say $1,000 on an underdog player to win a tennis match at 3.5 odds, then the match gets played out, and this player wins the 1st set and then has a big lead in the 2nd set. At this point, he's not longer at 3.5 odds to win, but rather 1.2. Then the bookie decided to offer the player an option to cash out for 2.5k if he does it before the match ends, which means $1k less in earnings for him and $1k less in losses for the bookie if he accepts this option.

And let's say the bettor doesn't want to take a big risk and wait until the match finishes, and opts in to withdraw 2.5k instead of being in a very good position to win 3.5k, but at least it's guaranteed to win a lot of money on the spot. So he decides to accept and not risk potentially losing that 2.5k if his player chokes & ends up losing. Ultimately, this is a win-win situation since the bettor secured a big win (despite missing out on more gains), and the bookie saved $1k in losses.

In my situation, FortuneJack realized they no longer had as good of a chance to win this bet against me as they initially thought they would, so to minimize their losses they offered me a chance to cash out any % I wanted at ~1.92 odds (0.2687/0.14), instead of me waiting for the next day to potentially win at 2.6 odds.

This makes perfect sense and creates a win-win situation for both of us, and has absolutely nothing to do with any technical mistakes, or else they wouldn't give me this option and would have canceled my bet in full right away, not 2 hours before the match is about to start,

However, what FortuneJack did is 5x worse. They realized they were likely going to lose the bet since odds changed against them, so right before the start of the match they decided to bend the rules and cancel my bet to eliminate ANY risk they had of losing 0.174 BTC, and then they had the audacity to keep my entire stake to themselves as well instead of returning it back to me.

I'm sorry but you're NOT ALLOWED to do that! Not only is this morally & ethically wrong, but it's also against the rules. You cannot just cancel a bet because you feel like it or because the odds changed against your favor. That's not how it works and other bookies haven't canceled it for their users either. That is complete burglary and yet here they are trying to play the innocent victims, knowing that what they did is 100% wrong and not allowed.

Like I understand if you made a mistake, but we all make mistakes and they all come with some consequences. If you made a mistake on your end that had nothing to do with me & isn't my fault, then you need to own up to it and pay for making such mistake. The same way every time I make a mistake when I bet in sports and lose a lot of bets, it's no different and you are accountable for the same standards.

I hope you & everyone else now realize and better understands why I believe this is only fair and why I deserve to not only receive my full stake back, but more importantly win the full amount of the bet.

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YOU did not issue my initial amount back yourself, I partially cashed it out MYSELF the day before when you gave me the option to do so - there is a big difference. And then after I cashed it out, I still had 50% left at 0.067 BTC (that I could have instead cashed out for an extra 0.13 BTC if I wanted to, instead of risking it for a chance to win 0.174 BTC).

To YOU this may not "feel" fair to pay me because you keep pointing fingers at and blaming betrader for everything, but at the end of the day it is YOUR site and it is 100% your responsibility for everything that happens on your site. You left the lines initially open for 2-3 hours without any major changes (instead of changing it right away if this was such an "obvious" mistake), and then YOU gave me the option to cash out my bet for whatever % I wanted for a guaranteed ~2.0 profits (instead of waiting for the next day and potentially losing a greater amount at 2.6 if my player wins). It makes perfect sense to me and is 100% fair. If anything, you should thank me because I did you a nice favor and saved you 0.05-0.1 BTC that you would have normally lost had I not cashed out anything at all and this bet was never canceled & played out in full to begin with (as it should have been the case).  

If you made a "mistake" then you have to face the consequences & pay for your mistakes just like with anything in life (much like I always pay for my betting mistakes too). Please stop playing the victim and start taking responsibility for a mistake that was made on your end. Whether it is your fault or betrader's, I don't care. To me, you are both equally responsible for this "mistake". It is not my fault that I got in at odds that I thought made sense for me at the time, and I should not be the one who has to lose thousands of dollars because of a mistake that was made on YOUR end.

That is not fair to me in any way whatsoever, not only to miss out on the winning bet, but even worse to not receive my stake back.

And if you really want to play the victim and not take any responsibility for what happened, then you should definetely approach and have a long conversation with betrader and get THEM to pay me instead, since according to you it was "their" mistake. I don't care who does it, but one of you has to pay me for a mistake that was made on your side. Especially considering that all other bookies did so as well without complaining about anything or canceling the bet right before the match was about to start. And I expect you and every other bookie to do the same thing to honor fair play.

So if anything, how is that fair to ME that right now I have to lose my 0.067 BTC stake (that you yourself allowed me to have), and then miss out on winning 0.174 BTC when this bet should never have been canceled in the first place? It is not MY mistake at all and I do not by any means deserve to get penalized for this and lose thousands of dollars because of a mistake that was made on your end.

What frustrates me the most is that I chose the right player to win, and then you unjustifiably canceled my bet and are not returning back my stake - in other words counting my bet as if it was a LOSS after having chosen the right player to win. To me, it crosses all boundaries and is completely unacceptable.

You need to show respect to your users, take responsibility for any mistake that was made on your end (especially since it wasn't even a major mistake like posting De Jong at 5.0+ odds instead of 1.15 like he was intended to for example), and honor my bet as a fully deserved win (or at the bare minimum return my stake back).

It is the only right, fair & noble thing to do in this situation, and I would greatly appreciate your cooperation.

Thank you very much,

EpicChamp

P.S. I still don't understand what kind of "proof" or context you want me to show or share with everyone. Be more specific with what you want me to show and I'll be happy to clarify + provide it.

P.P.S. I appreciate your 25% offer, but I believe it should be a bit higher than that.

And as I mentioned earlier, if you don't want to pay me out of your pocket because you feel like it isn't fair or isn't your fault - then betrader should pay for it instead. But bottom line is that a mistake was made on your end and someone has to pay for it, I should not have to suffer because of this and lose thousands of dollars when I didn't do anything wrong at all and did everything in accordance to your rules.

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So you're saying that if I DIDN'T cash anything out, it would have made a difference?

What if I cashed out & withdrew 0.18 BTC, or 0.1 BTC, or nothing at all?

The point is that the withdrawal amount or % doesn't matter, the bottom line is it doesn't make it any right for FJ to cancel this bet due to countless of reasons. But regardless what amount I cash out, the remaining stake must be returned in full at all times.

(Change of odds is normal in tennis + other sports and bets never get canceled because of that, their "technical" error reason is not mentioned anywhere in the original email they sent me so their explanation does not align to what they claimed initially, and as social proof -  other bookies for this match have awarded their users the full amount considering the same situation & swing of odds, amongst many other reasons)

And this is ultimately what I'm trying to prove & argue for. FJ should have never canceled my bet to begin with because their reasoning & explanation is not justifiable, esp when other bookies haven't canceled it for their users either - whether those users won or lost their bet (depending on who they bet on). But the point is this bet was never canceled for anyone across the gambling industry except for me which just doesn't make any sense.

Not to mention - how is it fair that they canceled this bet only for me and not for another user(s) on their site who bet on the same match? Bet cancelations must be universal either for everyone or for no one, and most definitely not based on individual odds at the time of the bet.

What they did is just so wrong in so many ways that I am still shocked and cannot believe it actually happened to me like this, and now I get to suffer and lose so much money because of that.  

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

That works for me, thanks.

Moreover FJ claims Epicchamp was the only one betting at the time of bug raised which is why the user thinks that he got cheated when about to win a bet. I think @EpicChamp should take the offer given by FJ and he can choose to what he wanted with it because he is claiming that he is only requesting that 0.0672 BTC to be refunded which is actually withdrew by him already.

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True, player has all the funds withdrawn in full - no loss at all - we actually toped up the balance bit more to be at the safe side.

As for now, everything is solved and updated live onto the platform.

We're not accusing the user on taking advantage of the bug. We did explain (in another thread opened by OP) what the possible reasons were that made us think that there was a chance of the user utilizing the technical error on purpose. This was just the point of view rather than point out the finger to the user. If we somehow made it unclear, sorry for the misunderstanding as that's not the way we treat the customers in any case.

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P.S - 25% of the deposit made is still up for grabs if the user accepts the offer.

My understanding is that EpicChamp's cashout was about equal to his bet placed, and so FJ is calling that his refund on the cancelled bet. If that's not the case and EpicChamp walked away with less than he bet, then FJ is very much at fault.

On 24 Nov, ETH was trading at ~0.031 BTC, so 4.5 ETH = 0.1395 BTC. EpicChamp withdrew 0.1397 BTC and so ended up with more than his bet. FJ is calling that his refund. EpicChamp did not lose anything as far as I can tell.

No party here did anything wrong, but FJ accusing a customer of taking advantage of a bug rather than owning up to a problem with their own system or their odds provider is damaging to their reputation. I would suggest that they retract that accusation or provide some kind of proof to back their claim.

You explained EpicChamp's situation brilliantly. The problem here is that FJ is not entirely at fault here, but it's tough to explain that to EpicChamp since he deserved the full winnings. Cashing out early caused this mess.

The silver lining here is that he received a decent portion of his stake back which is why it's best for him to move on and FJ needs to sort out these issues asap in order to avoid similar incidents in the future.

The conditions are pretty clear given this occurrence. I therefore believe that FJ is within its rights and we should consider this matter resolved. It is a pity for the user that he has lost some money, but that can happen.
FJ Did not do anything wrong in this case.

Is FortuneJack characterizing an odds error as a bug?

The story, as I understand it is as follows:

1. EpicChamp placed a bet at favorable odds
2. FJ offered a cashout option that EpicChamp found favorable and cashed out half of his bet, leaving the other half at the original odds
3. FJ cancelled the rest of EpicChamp's bet because they found the odds to be in error
4. EpicChamp withdrew his balance which happened to be equal to or more than his original bet
5. FJ nulled EpicChamp's balance

Where did EpicChamp exploit or "utilize" a bug in any of this?

Your policies state:


So I don't really see a problem with what FJ did here. The wording is a bit weird, but at the time of the cashout, that part of this specific bet was settled in error. I do have a problem with FJ accusing this guy of exploiting a bug. He didn't exploit a bug. He used the system as it was designed. The fact that this situation is even discussed in FJ's policies indicates that this is a situation that they are aware of and have a plan for, it is not a bug.

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That's exactly the point we've been trying to emphasize since the beginning of the case and many of the community members have said the same. I think us offering a bonus of 25% of the deposit onto the top of it is a nice gesture and should be finally agreed by the user.

The most important thing in my opinion is that the player has at least got the stake back from the bet. Everything that has arisen afterwards due to technical problems can be discussed, but is no longer relevant in this situation. If the user has already requested and received the payout, the case seems closed in my view. Once you withdraw the funds, you more or less accept the decision and agree with it.

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He was the only user betting at the time of the bug occurring at the website. We did have another one who had the stake placed onto the same match but he made the bet after the bug was fixed and was credited in full accordingly.

If I Understood it correctly the amount 0.0672 was created due to the technical error on their side but later it was nullified. Means you got only 0.0672 left in your wallet and which you already withdrew it to your wallet so there is no BTC left on stake and this is what FJ wanted you to understand.

@FJ only this user has faced such kind of bugs with wallet balance or many others? Because I don't find any similar case in that time frame.

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We do try our best to have it resolved.

The OP continues to make us credit the win and a stake generated within the bug. It would not be fair in any way. As mentioned above, we've had quite a few similar scenarios in the past, where a huge amount of wins were generated while system having the technical issue and all of them have been solved by giving the deposit/bet back + rewarding the player as an appreciation.

Unfortunately, EpicChamp doesn't accept the offer and keeps spamming the thread without any context or proofs provided.


UPDATE:

The amount itself doesn't matter by any means - the crucial thing for us is to treat all the players evenly. Would it be fair if we credited the stake and a win back to the user and not to the ones who had the same issue back in the past? I think that's a thing that needs to be addressed. By reading this entire case, everyone can see him shilling out pure nonsense without having an appreciation and a willingness to get the issue solved.

I am surprised that this issue has still not been resolved. Surely this should be arranged like this for a company like Fortunejack? It is only a small amount that matters.

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To clarify what we mean by giving the initial deposit back.

Your entire deposit was used as a stake for the bet which got refunded in full.

While you keep mentioning 0.0672 BTC as your stake doesn't make sense at all, as it was coming from the standpoint of the odd bug you utilized. Nothing was kept on our end, as shown into the screenshot, the balance was annulled and corrected to the amount you owned.

I believe that any casino representative would agree with me, we are not able to issue a winning or a stake generated with a bug happening within the system. The stake of 0.0672 BTC was obtained by utilizing a technical error and that's the reason why we are unable to consider crediting neither a winning nor stake as a relevant. Please stop arguing whether it was a bug or not, because we've already provided the proofs from the provider underlying the issue in detail.

We, of course, realize the importance of the situation and not even thinking a second about blaming the player. Despite everything and our positive attitude to the user, we have to strictly follow our rules this is the only way we can deal with the case. As there have been a bunch of similar cases in the past and all of them have been solved this exact way.

Player has already received the stake he used for his first bet plus the correction of the crypto price improvement within the timeframe. On top of that, we've offered him a 25% of the initial deposit back as an appreciation from the casino. I'm afraid this is the maximum we can do in this case. Sorry once again for the inconvenience but the decision is final and considered entirely fair.

Findingnemo: FortuneJack just proved with this screenshot that my 0.0672 BTC stake was not returned.

To Fortunejack:

I don't believe this was a technical error (and you did not mention this in your email when you canceled my bet either), but even if it was, you CANNOT take away my entire STAKE and keep it to yourself due to a technical error or any other reason in the case of a bet cancelation. There are absolutely no excuses for taking away my stake and not returning it back to me.

And please stop mentioning my initial deposit because it doesn't matter in this situation. I could have deposited 0.2 BTC and only bet 0.1 BTC on this match, so how much I deposited & when is irrelevant.

Also, it doesn't matter if it was a partial cashout or not - this bet must be treated just like any other regular bet. And like in any regular bet, in the case of a bet cancelation, the stake is ALWAYS returned to the bettor in full (even if it's a technical error). Yet you decided to keep it all to yourself and not return it back to me.

Whether this was a technical error or not, you have no right to keep my stake and it is 100% against the TOC.

So at the very least, please return my 0.0672 BTC stake back.

Thank you very much,

EpicChamp

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Hey @Findingnemo,

Here's the transaction history of the player mentioned-above:



It showcases all the steps user made from the beginning of making the initial deposit, placing a bet, all over to withdrawing it to the personal wallet. The last transaction was made from our system as it automatically annulled the on-going stake due to technical error.

To summarize, the initial deposit the user made was withdrawn in full - even the difference from the stand point of increasing the coin value within the delay was issued back as a balance.

IMHO, you can't actually claim the winning bet because the bet cancelled before the 2 hours of the games (IIRC) and its the own decision of the gambling site.

Now only talk about the staked amount, do you have any valid proof to claim that your bet amount never returned to you like how much balance left before that particular bet and how much you withdrew with valid proofs.

Wall of text will not convince anyone.

After I did my 50% partial cashout (which they gave me the option to do themselves), the other 50% had 0.0672 BTC remaining at 2.6 odds. ForuneJack then canceled this bet 2 hours before the match was about to start, and did not return this stake back to me (in other words, they kept it to themselves) - which is against ANY gambling TOC.

Have you ever had a situation where your bet was canceled for any reason and your money or stake wasn't returned back to you in full? I highly doubt it.

Their reasoning or decision of canceling my bet could be debatable, although it is completely wrong & unethical for many reasons that I explained earlier.

But what is NOT debatable, is them taking away my 0.0672 BTC stake and keeping it to themselves after canceling my bet. That just crosses all boundaries and is 100% against any TOC.

So at the bare minimum, they need to return my 0.0672 BTC stake (which is equivalent to $2,200 USD right now and should have been done 2 months ago).

And if they have any good morals & a sense of goodwill, then the right and noble thing for them to do in this situation is to honor my winning bet in full for 0.174 BTC, which I would greatly appreciate.

(Since this bet should have never been canceled in the 1st place and played out the normal way).