Topic: Foundation Passport Official Thread - page 10. (Read 6022 times)

Great minds think alike 

I don't think you will have success running it on an outdated Android OS. It requires Android 10 and newer according to the information available on the About page on the Play Store. You can check it here. Click on the arrow next to About this app and it will display the needed information.

Edit: Oops, seems like foundationdvcs was about 2 mins faster.

Noted, we do have some logging now that can be triggered but it has to be viewed externally. Will raise an internal issue on this!


Absolutely! We do have a separate vulnerabilities program for security issues that should be used for those types of reports, but for general bugs or issues they can definitely be submitted on Github. Our focus with the Early Access Rewards program is testing out firmware releases, but if you submit issues in Github that are tangential we'll take them on a case-by-case basis if they're fitting for rewards.


The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!

Cool? Yes. Cheaper? That's actually not always the case. I am no expert on product development, margins and so on, but I've experienced this as a customer once: a product which was offered as a fully assembled and DIY version, was cheaper to buy fully assembled.
I'm not sure if this is always the case, of course, as that was just one experience.

I imagine that it could also be a significant logistical overhead / nightmare to keep track of who bought a fully assembled, tested and QC'd device, who built it themselves, how to handle warranty cases, etc. to the point that any savings in assembly cost would be eaten up in the process.

Where's that?

I'm not sure, but according to their docs, Flutter apps should run on Android versions that support the API version 21 to 34:

That's all in the source files; since Passport is an open-source, open-hardware device. Although building one from scratch does certainly require some amount of skill.

I don't think 3D printing works with electronic components. Except for maybe the case as dkbit98 hinted.

It seems that Foundation already provides the PCB designs so you don't have to worry about reconstructing it on that front - but how many people actually know how to connect the electronics together given the board? You'd basically have to be either an electronics engineer or a hobbyist to figure it out correctly.

I know about this, but I think it would be cool to order all parts in DIY kit package and assemble them at home, except parts that can be 3d printed anywhere.
This should reduce price significantly and I bet people would experiment more with printing custom cases.

If you are talking about PCB, this part can be ordered directly from Passport website, but I never made multilayer printed circuit board and I don't know how complicated this is.

Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.

That sounds great! I usually try beta releases anyways, so I'll make sure to create GitHub issues whenever I find some bug or issue, from now on.
How about more hardware based issues / bugs / vulnerabilities?

I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
One thing I'd appreciate is some kind of (hidden) log view where you can see whether / if it is stuck somewhere, e.g. when connecting to Tor, connecting to the server or something else. Just to make troubleshooting easier.

You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though.

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

Sure I could  order its manufacture on the side but it would  cost.

Foundation Devices already does this - If you go here[1] you'll find all the files that are used to produce Passport Batch 2. These files are specially handy if you need to replace a specific part of your device (or if you prefer to create a more custom look for it).

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[1]https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware/tree/main/mechanical/STEP%20Files

Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport

Nice.
I see lot of people having a problem to find good open source mobile wallet for Bitcoin, so I will download and test how Envoy works.
In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.

But you won't use that sd-card all the time, not even near like you would use it in camera, phones or other devices, so chances of getting it corrupted in next few years is minimal to none (unless you operate centralized exchange cold storage).

Thanks man for sharing this info, im really impresed by the diference in the last one (QLC), welll anyways thanks all for your answer and i hope the best to the passport team, and also thank them for being active here and answer the questions of the comunity.

Yeah, my Passport 2 is equipped with SanDisk Industrial XI 8 GB micro card which  is marked as Industrial but if you look at its  NAND Flash Tech and Endurance (main specs that differ cards) it is closer to Commercial grade (or one may call it Industrial MLC) rather than Industrial one, which is sigh-induced situation in this case.

https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/embedded-flash/industrial-sd-microsd-series/WDC_SanDisk_Industrial_SD_microSD_ProdBrief_020918.pdf

If you are interested in learning more about the SD card that is bundled with Passport, you can check out the datasheet here[1]. The NAND Flash Technology that the card uses is MLC (Multi-level cell) which is the second best option (the first one would be Single-level cell (SLC)):

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[1]https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/669/SanDisk_02052018_SDSDAF3_SDSDQAF3-1285144.pdf
[2]https://www.kingston.com/unitedkingdom/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand

Can you reveal a bit more information about what you are working on? Are we talking about brand new Foundation Passport hardware wallets software and hardware-wise, or more simpler modifications to the existing version like a lite variant that will be made of lower quality materials and be cheaper? Or perhaps the company is releasing something different entirely... 

Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.


Well, thanks for your answer, well yes you can copy but im somehow paranoic when i start to make copies of all the things, but well its a problem of myself.

Hype is pretty accurate IMO  Our team's 3D printers have been brrr'ing non-stop for the past few months with prototypes...

As for the beta program, we're very hopeful this will help balance out the incentives behind community members testing our releases alongside of us, as well as simply make the process of open-source development more exciting for the non-devs out there. Lots to test in each release, and likely quite a bit of Bitcoin up for grabs with each one as well!


Oh, absolutely! Ideally we will have far more Envoy users than Passport users due to it's functionality as an easy-to-use Bitcoin mobile wallet, and would love testers with or without Passport. If you have a Passport there is obviously more functionality to test out, but the majority of the growth in the app planned is on the mobile side that anyone with a smartphone can test out.


@dkbit98 hit the nail on the head here, the microSD cards in use here are MILES apart from the old, cheap, low-quality cards we're all used to from early cell phones. These are high-quality, industrial-grade cards that have much better read-write longevity as well as "on the shelf" longevity.

But even if your microSD card fails, Passport would continue to be fully functional.

As for backups, while encrypted backups are written to microSD, you can always copy those files practically anywhere you want (just don't put them with your backup PIN code!) as they're an encrypted blob. It's also almost always best to have a separate backup of the seed words themselves, often on steel or similar as @dkbit98 also mentioned!

If you have any other more specific questions I'm always happy to answer them

Can people test and report bugs only for Envoy app even if they don't own a Passport device?

I think they are using industrial grade micro sd card that are like night & day compared to regular consumer garbage sd cards.
Anyway, you shouldn't really only on sd cards, you should always have backup phrase in multiple places, written on paper or even better on stainless steel plates or washers.

Sorry if im being so noob on this but, im not a professional in cyber-security.

I read your thread, and when i see you are using Sd memories, i have to say its one of the most corrupted things on tecnology. And im not talking about corupted by hacking or something, im talking about, i remember when the cellphones still use the Sd your archives can become corrupeted by no reason,i lost a lots of old photos saved on the Sd, so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

Or im missunderstanding everything?

Thanks for your answers.

I think that having this kind of program is always beneficial to any company - It allows scrutiny and incentivizes the community to really dig into your releases to search for any potential flaw, earning some sats in the meantime. Congratulations on launching such program (unfortunately I lack the knowledge to help you on this regard)!

As an additional note from my side, three particular names come to my mind that may be interested in such program (looking at you guys - @n0nce, @satscraper and @BlackHatCoiner).

EDIT: I do like this particular paragraph on your announcement[1]:
Is this enough to justify saying: HYPE? 

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[1]https://foundationdevices.com/2023/08/announcing-our-early-access-rewards-program/

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

👉 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!

🔍 How to Participate

1. Test the beta releases for Passport firmware or Envoy app.
2. Report issues on Github.
3. All issues (the first time they are reported) are eligible for the 10k Satoshi reward.
4. Foundation team members will validate the issues for eligibility.
5. Rewards sent directly to your provided Bitcoin address or Lightning invoice.

Join the community, help us improve, and get rewarded in Bitcoin for your valuable contributions! 🎉

Learn more in our full blog post:

https://foundationdevices.com/2023/08/announcing-our-early-access-rewards-program/

P.S. -- We'll also be offering the top contributors to the program early access to future hardware products we create, with more details on that aspect of the program to come. 👀