either which way you look at...2 more days and i'm roi'd on my first purchase and that should snowball into roi'ing the rest of the way sooner
I don't think they are a ponzi anymore...in fact if you look at day trading and if done right, you can make some serious money doing that...and the more you have to play with the more ya make
course if done wrong...boom, done so idk...I'm happy right now to actually ROI on something scrypt right now...doing better then my actually hosted miners are doing...70mh/s on gaw beating out 85mh/s hosted...even if i was to magically know which pool was gona be great payout day i'd still lose out to gaw
aren't you concerned by this statement? they give you more return than you would have gotten yourself even if you knew who the winner would be?
The problem is that is it obvious that no one who is beating the pro-GAW drum has any inkling of what a Ponzi scheme is. "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."
I have been a very loyal GAW customer until zenpool and GAW merged... now, the red flags are going up all over the place on this zencloud/hashlet thing. The fact that GAW won't even disclose mining addresses (which could not possibly reveal any propriety information about the so-called hashlets other than to prove actual mining ...) is as much as I need to know to get out of this mess as soon as I can. ROI on the backs of subsequent customers is **theft**, not profit, even if it were to benefit me as an early adopter.
Josh, if you ever read this, and if by some chance hashlets are more than a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, then PLEASE post mining addresses for each major coin you are mining. Simple and effective way to prove you are more than PB Mining etc. Until then, I am going on the assumption this is a long con ponzi or pyramid scheme.
For the uninformed (and FYI, the difference between ponzi and pyramid is subtle but the basic idea is the same - future investors outsized profits of early investors; and so-called profits are paid from new investment dollars rather than legitimate income from the advertised business activity - e.g., supposed mining):
RED FLAGS (From the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission reference below). NOTE that hashlets meet EVERY SINGLE red flag listed by the SEC...
What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:
1. High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
2. Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions. [CHECK - Zenpool's ability to outperform even the most seasons alt-coin and multipools and never have a "bad day" is more than remarkable]
3. Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances. [CHECK - a whole different issue, but since GAW has admitted the hashlet is an investment in mining that is only **related** to actual pool mining, but "may" not actually be mining, the zenpool is at best an investment in a security and there has been no registration statement or even attempt to provide risk disclosures required for securities]
4. Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms. [CHECK]
5. Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised. [CHECK++++]
6. Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over. [CHECK - not especially the hashpoint and autoreinvest to discourage withdrawals, but also repeated "software" problems with withdrawals that often make it impossible to withdraw for lenghty periods]
FURTHER READING:
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/telltale-signs-pyramid-schemehttp://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2014/03/18/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htmhttp://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_schemeHistorical perspective:
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1866680,00.htmlBefore replying and telling me how much ROI you are going to make, please read the above. I have plenty of ROI on hashlets already assuming I can get out as promised, but that doesn't mean its not a Ponzi (I ROI'd on PB Mining too, but same issue applies to them and it looks likely they are nearing the collapse/tipping point soon).
Again, to GAW, if you are legitimate, all you need to do is post your mining addresses showing mining of actual coins (at least for the top 3-4 coins you are mining on zenpool) to prove mining activity in rough proportion to hashlet claimed hash power. I had great hopes that hashlets were something truly new and exciting, but the longer this goes on without disclosure of even basic facts like mining addresses, the more concerned I have become.
Regards,
8cyl
You are not eightcylinders.... YOU MY FRIEND ARE
. This is the best post on not only on this thread but the whole forum. Most greedy people will not care as long as they make a buck and that is a fact. Thank you very much for all the information and links on your post!!!!!!
