Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1553. (Read 2032281 times)

legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1416
aka tonikt
March 14, 2012, 04:34:31 PM
#93
Unlikely we'll go hungry, we have plenty of overcapacity of food production in the US.  In countries that import food, inflation of food prices could cause armed rebellion.
Yes, but the industry is driven by the credit money - the same one that would get wiped out by the deflation.
The money is wiped out = the industry is dead = no food, like in Africa
And that is why I think the government, even though it is corrupt, will not let the deflation to happen.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
March 14, 2012, 04:33:50 PM
#92
Here is an idea: create a chart of S&P in bitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 14, 2012, 04:32:45 PM
#91
There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.
My goodness, a Bitcoin bearish Vladimir? Grin Grin

i think Bitcoin surprises everyone.  look at the last few days since gold has been plummeting.  Bitcoin UP.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 14, 2012, 04:29:19 PM
#90
finally.  someone who understands.  

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.
you obviously don't account, in your forecast, for 200+ million of desperate and hungry people flooding the streets... and each one of them handling a gun...

this is not a soviet union of 1930s - they wont be starving quietly.

i think this vastly overstates the effect of deflation.  retail investors have largely left the speculative mkts.  the ones who stand to lose the most are the banks, hedge funds, and elitists themselves.  i also think that further sovereign debt destruction is a good thing; it will trim gov'ts down to size. 

if anything, savers stand to benefit.  yeah there will be some pain but i don't think its as bad as you think.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
March 14, 2012, 04:28:14 PM
#89
finally.  someone who understands.  

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.
you obviously don't account, in your forecast, for 200+ million of desperate and hungry people flooding the streets... and each one of them handling a gun...

this is not a soviet union of 1930s - they wont be starving quietly.

Unlikely we'll go hungry, we have plenty of overcapacity of food production in the US.  In countries that import food, inflation of food prices could cause armed rebellion.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
March 14, 2012, 04:27:58 PM
#88
There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.
My goodness, a Bitcoin bearish Vladimir? Grin Grin

Not necessarily. Bitcoin is cash equivalent, and cash is the only good thing to have in deflationary environment. For example, when S&P falls to 300, your bitcoins would buy you much more of S&P shares than you can buy now. Even if nominally Bitcoin exchange rates fall some too.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
March 14, 2012, 04:26:32 PM
#87
There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.
My goodness, a Bitcoin bearish Vladimir? Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
March 14, 2012, 04:26:02 PM
#86
I agree with you that a deflationary event is coming. But do you think central banks won't react ?

the deflation will overwhelm them.  

I am with cypherdoc on this one. To compensate defaults (deflation) they are continuing to reduce bank's reserve requirements. It is effectively 0 or even negative already. The more they reduce reserve requirements the more difficult it is to fight deflation. Given that so many banks and now governments, particularly in Europe, are de facto insolvent right now, while PIIGSominoes  keep falling right on schedule, this is unsustainable. There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.




finally.  someone who understands. 

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I don't see it.  The Fed can print at any rate they want.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
March 14, 2012, 04:25:43 PM
#85
Real inflation is going up, that's for sure.

(food, gas and housing prices you pay every month.)
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
March 14, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
#84
The point is whether you have free market that is self regulating or a central planning system. Do you think free markets would give you effectively negative interest rates as you have now?

And do not worry, you will see both deflation and hyperinflation. One after another.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
March 14, 2012, 04:19:58 PM
#83

...
The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.

...

Personally speaking, if I got hungry my BTC would be the first thing on the auction block.  In fairness this is mostly because I have never had any interest in stocks and sold any that I have acquired ASAP.  I also have completely shunned any IRA crap and tend to sit on as little cash as practical.  But I'd certainly hold on to my PM's and property longer than my BTC which I view as highly speculative (but something which I can secure more effectively than almost any other asset which is an unusual and welcome feature among my choices.)

legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1416
aka tonikt
March 14, 2012, 04:17:58 PM
#82
This is actually soviet union 2.0. I can tell you from first hand experience of both 1.0 and 2.0.
Well.. if it is, then we should be expecting some hyperinflation soon, shouldn't we? Smiley
It wont give them food, though - like it didn't back then.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
March 14, 2012, 04:14:53 PM
#81
finally.  someone who understands.  

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.
you obviously don't account, in your forecast, for 200+ million of desperate and hungry people flooding the streets... and each one of them handling a gun...

this is not a soviet union - they wont be starving quietly.


This is actually soviet union 2.0. I can tell you from first hand experience of both 1.0 and 2.0.

legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1416
aka tonikt
March 14, 2012, 04:11:59 PM
#80
finally.  someone who understands.  

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.
you obviously don't account, in your forecast, for 200+ million of desperate and hungry people flooding the streets... and each one of them handling a gun...

this is not a soviet union of 1930s - they wont be starving quietly.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 14, 2012, 04:08:55 PM
#79
I agree with you that a deflationary event is coming. But do you think central banks won't react ?

the deflation will overwhelm them.  

I am with cypherdoc on this one. To compensate defaults (deflation) they are continuing to reduce bank's reserve requirements. It is effectively 0 or even negative already. The more they reduce reserve requirements the more difficult it is to fight deflation. Given that so many banks and now governments, particularly in Europe, are de facto insolvent right now, while PIIGSominoes  keep falling right on schedule, this is unsustainable. There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.




finally.  someone who understands. 

it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
March 14, 2012, 04:00:07 PM
#78
I agree with you that a deflationary event is coming. But do you think central banks won't react ?

the deflation will overwhelm them.  

I am with cypherdoc on this one. To compensate defaults (deflation) they are continuing to reduce bank's reserve requirements. It is effectively 0 or even negative already. The more they reduce reserve requirements the more difficult it is to fight deflation. Given that so many banks and now governments, particularly in Europe, are de facto insolvent right now, while PIIGSominoes  keep falling right on schedule, this is unsustainable. There is data out there that QE's have diminishing effect. The game is up and deflation is upon us. All assets but cash will fall in this scenario, gold and stocks and in most countries housing are the first to the block.

Moreover, the market has a tendency to inflict the maximum possible damage. It's so called "max pain" theory. See how everyone and his mother is into the gold right now and into shorting fiat by borrowing a lot. Everyone is playing the inflation card with ever increasing leverage, which basically means that there will be deflation to hurt the maximum possible number of people.

The worst thing one can do in deflationary environment is to be a debtor whose debts are secured on his real assets.




legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
March 14, 2012, 03:33:26 PM
#77
Exactly what besides housing and electronic devices has deflated??

Debt (aka 'money' under our current monetary system) has deflated in some sectors.  There is a desperate effort to offset this by accounting (FASB rules changes involving mark-to-market for instance) and shifting debt to other sectors (namely the government's balance sheet) but it cannot go on forever.

As always this is just my read of things, and I am by no means an expert.

legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 1006
this space intentionally left blank
March 14, 2012, 03:26:58 PM
#76
I am massively invested in PMs, and I tend to continue buying.
If not for myself, for my children.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1416
aka tonikt
March 14, 2012, 03:25:36 PM
#75
All that printed money has flowed into stocks and commodities, driving up the prices.  But, it was loaned out, so when those loans come due, the stocks/commodities will need to be sold to cover the payments.  Once the general markets realize there is no permanent results from such lending, everybody will be rushing out of equities to cover their asses as their debt skyrockets in value....
Agree.
But how can it end?
I see only one way: even after selling all the assets out there to pay off the debts... they will be bankrupt anyway.
And that would be the day when you prefer to be holding a shiny metal, instead of a paper backed by the bankrupt promises.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
March 14, 2012, 03:25:08 PM
#74
Analyze it however you want, we are not about to experience a massive deflation in the US.  They will start sending checks to everyone first..  They've done it before....

I'd be happy with that outcome as well.
Jump to: